Obama Flip Flops Again

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner

Originally posted by: AAjax

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
This is a stupid topic filled with stupid people stupidly spreading stupid information.

Obama's positions have not changed. He has always stated he will allow circumstances on the ground to determine the best course of action. Anybody who calls this a flip flop is filthy taint.

ANd Profjohn, I know logic isn't your strongsuit but who cares if the NY times is attacking him for it? The NYTIMES is also partially responsible for the iraq war.

Yeah, he didnt change on FISA. He didnt change on NAFTA. Who could think such things?

(Oh and by the way, Im being sarcastic. I felt I had to explain that to you since you so duly pointed out that there are so many stupid people about)

My Gosh, this is getting pathetic.

Where was I talking about FISA?

I'll be waiting for your response.

Let me put it together for you.

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
This is a stupid topic filled with stupid people stupidly spreading stupid information.

Obama's positions have not changed.

Originally posted by: AAjax
Yeah, he didnt change on FISA. He didnt change on NAFTA. Who could think such things?

Got it? You said it was a stupid topic with stupid people stupidly spreading stupid information and that Obama's positions haven't changed. AAjax proved it he has. What don't you understand?

 

[AAjax]

Originally posted by: Stoneburner

Originally posted by: AAjax

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
This is a stupid topic filled with stupid people stupidly spreading stupid information.

Obama's positions have not changed. He has always stated he will allow circumstances on the ground to determine the best course of action. Anybody who calls this a flip flop is filthy taint.

ANd Profjohn, I know logic isn't your strongsuit but who cares if the NY times is attacking him for it? The NYTIMES is also partially responsible for the iraq war.

Yeah, he didnt change on FISA. He didnt change on NAFTA. Who could think such things?

(Oh and by the way, Im being sarcastic. I felt I had to explain that to you since you so duly pointed out that there are so many stupid people about)

My Gosh, this is getting pathetic.

Where was I talking about FISA?

I'll be waiting for your response.

You were making a blanket statement "Obama's positions have not changed" Thats with an "s" I pointed out this was not so. Hope you didnt wait long 😛

 

[Stoneburner]

Originally posted by: AAjax

Originally posted by: Stoneburner

Originally posted by: AAjax

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
This is a stupid topic filled with stupid people stupidly spreading stupid information.

Obama's positions have not changed. He has always stated he will allow circumstances on the ground to determine the best course of action. Anybody who calls this a flip flop is filthy taint.

ANd Profjohn, I know logic isn't your strongsuit but who cares if the NY times is attacking him for it? The NYTIMES is also partially responsible for the iraq war.

Yeah, he didnt change on FISA. He didnt change on NAFTA. Who could think such things?

(Oh and by the way, Im being sarcastic. I felt I had to explain that to you since you so duly pointed out that there are so many stupid people about)

My Gosh, this is getting pathetic.

Where was I talking about FISA?

I'll be waiting for your response.

You were making a blanket statement "Obama's positions have not changed" Thats with an "s" I pointed out this was not so. Hope you didnt wait long 😛

So you agree he didn't change his view on Iraq?

 

[Capt Caveman]

God Damn America!!!

 

[BMW540I6speed]

Flip-floppery...

It's just one of those useful mental placeholders that are easy to throw out by way of actual debate, Why the Gliberal Media enables it, however, is anybody's guess.

The no-flip-flop (aka my candidate can do no wrong) argument is weak and disingenuous. There is simply nothing wrong with altering your stance. The 2004 election somehow convinced a good number of people that change = weakness.

It is time to dispense with the boorish old rhetoric and embrace the fact that we need a president who can react responsibly, change course when necessary and can harness the winds of change - not one who stands rigidly in the face of those winds.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Obama is turning into a joke, the sad thing is that McCain isn't taking advantage of this chance to nail the flip-flop and pandering labels on Obama.

McCain? Oh, you mean the guy who was against offshore drilling until he was for it? Or did you mean the McCain who was for amnesty of illegal aliens until he was against it? Or was it McCain who said it would be irresponsible to make Bush's tax cuts permanent but then stated he was in favor of doing exactly that? Or McCain who thought the estate tax was reasonable and necessary before calling it among the worst and most unfair taxes?

I don't think Johnny Mac wants to play the flip-flop game.

 

[nageov3t]

taxes I'll give you, but the others you listed are total BS.

the tax cuts was pure pandering of the worst kind... but I think his changes on immigration and drilling have been thoroughly explained. what are you even talking about with the estate tax, though? that speech where he said he had to stay at a fair level?

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: loki8481
what are you even talking about with the estate tax, though? that speech where he said he had to stay at a fair level?

It had to do with him originally saying the estate tax was reasonable, and then recently saying it was among the most unfair taxes we have. If he finds it reasonable, then he shouldn't think it is among the most unfair we have, or by definition it wouldn't be reasonable. Of couse it's a panderer's point in any event since the estate tax effects almost no one anyway.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
"this whole notion that I am shifting to the center, or that I am flip-flopping."

oh please, he is getting attacked by the left for flip-flopping.
NY Times, Huffington Post etc etc.

There is an editorial by Bob Hubert, super liberal, saying that Obama has flip-flopped.

Obama is turning into a joke, the sad thing is that McCain isn't taking advantage of this chance to nail the flip-flop and pandering labels on Obama.

Yeah, that's because McCain is doing the same thing.

 

[thraashman]

Well, in truth. I'd much MUCH rather a flip flopper as President than a man like Bush or McCain who instead of flip flopping just picks the wrong position and sticks with it no matter what! Intelligent people adjust their viewpoints and beliefs based on the situation and the facts and information involved. Stupid jackasses (read Republicans), ignore all information available in favor of the narrow view they've decided to adopt. So ok, he's flip flopping on some issues (though not nearly as much as people are trying to claim), I'd rather that than the moronic retard of an alternative ... you know ANY republican.

 

[AAjax]

Originally posted by: thraashman
Well, in truth. I'd much MUCH rather a flip flopper as President than a man like Bush or McCain who instead of flip flopping just picks the wrong position and sticks with it no matter what! Intelligent people adjust their viewpoints and beliefs based on the situation and the facts and information involved. Stupid jackasses (read Republicans), ignore all information available in favor of the narrow view they've decided to adopt. So ok, he's flip flopping on some issues (though not nearly as much as people are trying to claim), I'd rather that than the moronic retard of an alternative ... you know ANY republican.

I would much rather have someone with Integrity than a pandering liar or a war monger fool. But apparently thats too much to ask from our public officials.

Seriously this party politics stuff makes my stomach churn.

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: bamacre
"Now, assuming that I take office in January, then that means that we would still have our troops there for about two more year from now."

Whoa, what happened to 16 months?

just like there are 57 states in the U.S., there are 16 months in two years. I don't see the problem? but he was talking about two years from now though, so he gets a pass on this one.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: daveymark

Originally posted by: bamacre
"Now, assuming that I take office in January, then that means that we would still have our troops there for about two more year from now."

Whoa, what happened to 16 months?

just like there are 57 states in the U.S., there are 16 months in two years. I don't see the problem? but he was talking about two years from now though, so he gets a pass on this one.

And just like McCain said he's going to :music: Bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran :music: , right?

😉

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
"this whole notion that I am shifting to the center, or that I am flip-flopping."

oh please, he is getting attacked by the left for flip-flopping.
NY Times, Huffington Post etc etc.

There is an editorial by Bob Hubert, super liberal, saying that Obama has flip-flopped.

Obama is turning into a joke, the sad thing is that McCain isn't taking advantage of this chance to nail the flip-flop and pandering labels on Obama.

So the liberals on the coasts are attacking Obama for having religious convictions and that makes news? Color me shocked. In their world and yours, everything must be black and white.

 

[Red Dawn]

Let him flip as long as he becoming more moderate. I can see where that'd bother the Republicans, they are hoping that they'd win some of the Moderates over to their side, too bad they have the last 7+ years hanging around their neck like a decaying and putrid albatross.

 

[Craig234]

I used to think flip flopping was bad, but changed my mind.

 

[sportage]

You know, I have decided to give BOTH Obama and Mccain a free pass on the evil "flip flop" cyclops. They tried to use it against Clinton in the 1992 election, and ever since on all and any candidate on either side.

Actually, even "YOU" (who ever you are, where ever you are) would change his/hers views and direction on many issues, that is if YOU were running up against THE SYSTEM.

I just re watched the Oliver Stone movie NIXON.
No one was better at redesigning or recreating than Nixon.
The old Nixon vs the new Nixon.

There is not ONE person out there that would not change views or be accused of the old flip flop, if running for some office. Especially president.

Soooo, I welcome the retooling of ones views on the issues (so called flip flopping).
Which no human on earth would be immune from doing...too. (YES, EVEN YOU)

 

[Capt Caveman]

Can we start the nomination process over?

 

[RY62]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Can we start the nomination process over?

No. Who in their right mind would want to go through that again. :laugh:
Besides, the current nominating process hasn't ended yet. Until the convention, we only have presumptive nominees. None of the Dem candidates won enough delegates to clinch the nomination so Obama will need to keep the super delegate support that he has until he is actually nominated. It's not at all likely but some of them could still see a reason to change their minds.

As to the issue of flip flopping...I can't see why the far left are getting their panties in a twist. I'm sure everything is going just as planned. Obama would never win if the majority of the country sees him as being far left. He needed the support of the far left to get the nomination. Now, he has to try and convince everyone else that he's really a pragmatic centrist if he hopes to win the election.

The far left may whine for a while but they aren't going anywhere else and if he wins, Obama will come back to them. The real question is will enough of the centrists fall for this play and believe that Obama is realy a centrist who's been playing a game on the far left?