Let me put it together for you.
Got it? You said it was a stupid topic with stupid people stupidly spreading stupid information and that Obama's positions haven't changed. AAjax proved it he has. What don't you understand?
Let me put it together for you.
Got it? You said it was a stupid topic with stupid people stupidly spreading stupid information and that Obama's positions haven't changed. AAjax proved it he has. What don't you understand?
Originally posted by: AAjax
You were making a blanket statement "Obama's positions have not changed" Thats with an "s" I pointed out this was not so. Hope you didnt wait long
So you agree he didn't change his view on Iraq?
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
- 34,543
- 651
- 126
Flip-floppery...
It's just one of those useful mental placeholders that are easy to throw out by way of actual debate, Why the Gliberal Media enables it, however, is anybody's guess.
The no-flip-flop (aka my candidate can do no wrong) argument is weak and disingenuous. There is simply nothing wrong with altering your stance. The 2004 election somehow convinced a good number of people that change = weakness.
It is time to dispense with the boorish old rhetoric and embrace the fact that we need a president who can react responsibly, change course when necessary and can harness the winds of change - not one who stands rigidly in the face of those winds.
It's just one of those useful mental placeholders that are easy to throw out by way of actual debate, Why the Gliberal Media enables it, however, is anybody's guess.
The no-flip-flop (aka my candidate can do no wrong) argument is weak and disingenuous. There is simply nothing wrong with altering your stance. The 2004 election somehow convinced a good number of people that change = weakness.
It is time to dispense with the boorish old rhetoric and embrace the fact that we need a president who can react responsibly, change course when necessary and can harness the winds of change - not one who stands rigidly in the face of those winds.
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
McCain? Oh, you mean the guy who was against offshore drilling until he was for it? Or did you mean the McCain who was for amnesty of illegal aliens until he was against it? Or was it McCain who said it would be irresponsible to make Bush's tax cuts permanent but then stated he was in favor of doing exactly that? Or McCain who thought the estate tax was reasonable and necessary before calling it among the worst and most unfair taxes?
I don't think Johnny Mac wants to play the flip-flop game.
taxes I'll give you, but the others you listed are total BS.
the tax cuts was pure pandering of the worst kind... but I think his changes on immigration and drilling have been thoroughly explained. what are you even talking about with the estate tax, though? that speech where he said he had to stay at a fair level?
the tax cuts was pure pandering of the worst kind... but I think his changes on immigration and drilling have been thoroughly explained. what are you even talking about with the estate tax, though? that speech where he said he had to stay at a fair level?
jonks
Lifer
- Feb 7, 2005
- 13,918
- 20
- 81
It had to do with him originally saying the estate tax was reasonable, and then recently saying it was among the most unfair taxes we have. If he finds it reasonable, then he shouldn't think it is among the most unfair we have, or by definition it wouldn't be reasonable. Of couse it's a panderer's point in any event since the estate tax effects almost no one anyway.
thraashman
Lifer
- Apr 10, 2000
- 11,112
- 1,587
- 126
Well, in truth. I'd much MUCH rather a flip flopper as President than a man like Bush or McCain who instead of flip flopping just picks the wrong position and sticks with it no matter what! Intelligent people adjust their viewpoints and beliefs based on the situation and the facts and information involved. Stupid jackasses (read Republicans), ignore all information available in favor of the narrow view they've decided to adopt. So ok, he's flip flopping on some issues (though not nearly as much as people are trying to claim), I'd rather that than the moronic retard of an alternative ... you know ANY republican.
just like there are 57 states in the U.S., there are 16 months in two years. I don't see the problem? but he was talking about two years from now though, so he gets a pass on this one.
So the liberals on the coasts are attacking Obama for having religious convictions and that makes news? Color me shocked. In their world and yours, everything must be black and white.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
- 3
- 0
Let him flip as long as he becoming more moderate. I can see where that'd bother the Republicans, they are hoping that they'd win some of the Moderates over to their side, too bad they have the last 7+ years hanging around their neck like a decaying and putrid albatross.
sportage
Lifer
- Feb 1, 2008
- 11,492
- 3,163
- 136
You know, I have decided to give BOTH Obama and Mccain a free pass on the evil "flip flop" cyclops. They tried to use it against Clinton in the 1992 election, and ever since on all and any candidate on either side.
Actually, even "YOU" (who ever you are, where ever you are) would change his/hers views and direction on many issues, that is if YOU were running up against THE SYSTEM.
I just re watched the Oliver Stone movie NIXON.
No one was better at redesigning or recreating than Nixon.
The old Nixon vs the new Nixon.
There is not ONE person out there that would not change views or be accused of the old flip flop, if running for some office. Especially president.
Soooo, I welcome the retooling of ones views on the issues (so called flip flopping).
Which no human on earth would be immune from doing...too. (YES, EVEN YOU)
Actually, even "YOU" (who ever you are, where ever you are) would change his/hers views and direction on many issues, that is if YOU were running up against THE SYSTEM.
I just re watched the Oliver Stone movie NIXON.
No one was better at redesigning or recreating than Nixon.
The old Nixon vs the new Nixon.
There is not ONE person out there that would not change views or be accused of the old flip flop, if running for some office. Especially president.
Soooo, I welcome the retooling of ones views on the issues (so called flip flopping).
Which no human on earth would be immune from doing...too. (YES, EVEN YOU)
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
- 34,543
- 651
- 126
RY62
Senior member
- Mar 13, 2005
- 891
- 153
- 106
No. Who in their right mind would want to go through that again. :laugh:
Besides, the current nominating process hasn't ended yet. Until the convention, we only have presumptive nominees. None of the Dem candidates won enough delegates to clinch the nomination so Obama will need to keep the super delegate support that he has until he is actually nominated. It's not at all likely but some of them could still see a reason to change their minds.
As to the issue of flip flopping...I can't see why the far left are getting their panties in a twist. I'm sure everything is going just as planned. Obama would never win if the majority of the country sees him as being far left. He needed the support of the far left to get the nomination. Now, he has to try and convince everyone else that he's really a pragmatic centrist if he hopes to win the election.
The far left may whine for a while but they aren't going anywhere else and if he wins, Obama will come back to them. The real question is will enough of the centrists fall for this play and believe that Obama is realy a centrist who's been playing a game on the far left?
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