Obama administration will reject Keystone XL pipeline

[rudder]

i dont understand this other than being a politial shit show.

Follow the money. Some people make more money with no pipeline.

 

[K1052]

Other than safer transport of the product to avoid things like explosions and burning down Chicago or other major cities that rail lines pass through?

http://www.sightline.org/2015/05/06/oil-train-explosions-a-timeline-in-pictures/

Use of the old DOT-111 style tank cars has brought their failings into sharp relief, they're being replaced for oil shipments.

 

[ivwshane]

Transcanada suspended their request for the permit a few days ago so either they knew Obama was going to cancel it, or they cancelled it and made Obama's decision a lot easier.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/u...r-permit-to-build-keystone-pipeline.html?_r=0

I'm going with the latter. In my opinion obama was simply waiting them out. Either they would withdraw or the cost/benefit to them building the pipeline would become cost prohibitive. More than likely obama was simply using this as a carrot for repubs to get things he wanted but it doesn't seem like he had any biters this whole time.

 

[Mandres]

Follow the money. Some people make more money with no pipeline.

Which people? Seriously I've been trying to figure out the controversy over this pipeline for a long time but it's impossible to sift through the FUD to get to any real economic arguments one way or the other. I still don't understand it at all. Who stand to lose money if the pipeline is built and who stands to gain?

 

[DrPizza]

Transcanada suspended their request for the permit a few days ago so either they knew Obama was going to cancel it, or they cancelled it and made Obama's decision a lot easier.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/u...r-permit-to-build-keystone-pipeline.html?_r=0

And, politically, I don't think it would have hurt Obama or the Democrats. All it takes is "Remember when Sarah Palin said that it would lower the cost of gasoline at the pump? Look at the price of gasoline, and we still don't have that pipeline." That statement is not necessarily truthful. Nonetheless, the public is pretty stupid on average.

 

[Vic]

Which people? Seriously I've been trying to figure out the controversy over this pipeline for a long time but it's impossible to sift through the FUD to get to any real economic arguments one way or the other. I still don't understand it at all. Who stand to lose money if the pipeline is built and who stands to gain?

It was a land grab. The federal government was going to spend a shitload to acquire land through eminent domain that would then be handed over to the private interests building the pipeline. Those private interests made a considerable investment in 2014 congressional elections that now didn't pay off (mostly because oil prices have tanked and that market is in oversupply).
The discussions on this topic about jobs, oil trains, and climate change were all smokescreen.

The next debate on this topic will be that a whole slew of federal oil and gas leases are coming up for renewal, and the oil companies want to lock in sweet long term deals while the market is still depressed. Both sides are already getting their propaganda machines geared up.

 

[Zorkorist]

What in the world is the Federal Government doing deciding free market business?

Interstate free market business?

Communists. Socialists.

-John

 

[brycejones]

What in the world is the Federal Government doing deciding free market business?

Interstate free market business?

Communists. Socialists.

-John

You do realize the only way this would ever have been built would have been through the government forcing people have it on their land through imminent domain?

So this is actually a victory for personal property rights over the desires of a corporation.

 

[kage69]

It's a shitty deal that makes the US look bi-polar to the rest of the world.


Good riddance.

 

[waggy]

I dislike the use of eminent domain, but other than that this project would do nothing but make the transportation of the oil safer and more convenient. This is nothing more than the usual rampant stupidity of the left enamored with symbolic actions rather than actual logical solutions.

/this

I didn't like that a company..a foreign company had the power of ED.

but to many go nuts over the pipeline itself. it's one of the safest ways to transport oil.

 

[Zorkorist]

You do realize the only way this would ever have been built would have been through the government forcing people have it on their land through imminent domain?

So this is actually a victory for personal property rights over the desires of a corporation.

No it is not any sort of victory for personal property rights. No single person was ever allowed to negotiate with anyone. The Federal Government, whimsically, has declined to exercise SUPER MOTHER FUCKING GOVERNMENT POWERS, in this case.

My question still remains. Who gave the Federal Government "SUPER MOTHER FUCKING GOVERNMENT POWERS?"

-John

 

[brycejones]

No it is not any sort of victory for personal property rights. No single person was ever allowed to negotiate with anyone. The Federal Government, whimsically, has declined to exercise SUPER MOTHER FUCKING GOVERNMENT POWERS, in this case.

My question still remains. Who gave the Federal Government "SUPER MOTHER FUCKING GOVERNMENT POWERS?"

-John

What is the "super mother fucking drink" tonight?

 

[Zorkorist]

If they want a super mother fucking pipeline...

I got one, right here.

-John

 

[pauldun170]

http://www.slate.com/articles/busin..._the_keystone_xl_pipeline_innovation_did.html

The story of how fracking—hydraulic fracturing—has turned the U.S. from a declining energy power into a world leader has been told many times over. (For my money, Gregory Zuckerman’s The Frackersis the best origin tale.) According to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, thanks to the advent of fracking in Texas, North Dakota, and elsewhere, U.S. oil production rose from 5 million barrels per day in 2008 to 8.7 million barrels per day in 2014, a 74 percent increase. This happened at a time when consumption has remained essentially flat. Which means the U.S. is well on its way to being self-sufficient. Oil imports fell about 70 percent between 2005 and 2014. As the EIA notes, in 2014, “Net imports accounted for 27% of the petroleum consumed in the United States, the lowest annual average since 1985.” Yes, we still import plenty of oil from Mexico and Canada. But American refineries aren’t crying out for new external sources of supply. That’s the first strike against Keystone.

Thanks to increased domestic production, and the fact that U.S. producers are essentially prohibited from exporting oil, prices have remained low. The spot price of West Texas Intermediate crude is now below $50 per barrel, about half what it was a couple of years ago. Which means it doesn’t make all that much sense to build a pipeline that will carry oil that is comparatively expensive to produce. And as the Wall Street Journal reported, the estimated break-even point for a newly initiated project in the oil sands is $65 per barrel. Another strike against Keystone.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Stupid question, but isn't a large portion of the pipeline already built? Last I checked there were issues in certain states, but the overall construction was still continuing?

 

[Zorkorist]

America was always oil and gas sufficient. Now, a little run at exploiting our natural wealth, is met by the lowest gas prices in years. OPEC said, bring it.

Oil companies, which were booming, are now insignificant.

The Federal Government is of course, oblivious.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

What's interesting to me is that now oil prices are approaching $2 per gallon. And no one is saying "oh my gosh, oil is back to a reasonable level?!"

Where is the boom in business with oil at $2/gallon?

-John

 

[Vic]

What in the world is the Federal Government doing deciding free market business?

Interstate free market business?

Communists. Socialists.

-John

I believe that both the Commerce Clause and the Louisiana Purchase helped to give the government jurisdiction in this issue.

 

[Zorkorist]

Federal Government.

Don't say just Government, but Federal Government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause

That speaks to commerce between governments. Nations, States, and Indians.

It has nothing to do with commerce between citizens.

Dunno about the Louisiana purchase in this context... but I can easily say that it was NEVER the intent that our Federal Government could regulate commerce to the extent of who put a pipeline, where.

That would be communism. Or socialism.

-John

 

[sportage]

Funny, people and especially republicans are ALL FOR THIS pipeline.... EXCEPT ..... when they start digging in their back yards to install it.
Here in my republican state another pipeline coming thru has republicans ALL UP IN ARMS against this "other" pipeline because they (republicans) realized it would in fact come thru their neighborhoods. And THAT fact did not sit well with them.
Funny how that works.....

 

[highland145]

So, you've got nothing. Thanks for playing. Grab your Participant!!! ribbon on the way out.

That's scary. Expected...but scary.

 

[Zorkorist]

Funny, people and especially republicans are ALL FOR THIS pipeline.... EXCEPT ..... when they start digging in their back yards to install it.
Here in my republican state another pipeline coming thru has republicans ALL UP IN ARMS against this "other" pipeline because they (republicans) realized it would in fact come thru their neighborhoods. And THAT fact did not sit well with them.
Funny how that works.....

So take out Government Power. Then no one need be afraid.

-John

 

[Vic]

Federal Government.

Don't say just Government, but Federal Government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause

That speaks to commerce between governments. Nations, States, and Indians.

It has nothing to do with commerce between citizens.

Dunno about the Louisiana purchase in this context... but I can easily say that it was NEVER the intent that our Federal Government could regulate commerce to the extent of who put a pipeline, where.

That would be communism. Or socialism.

-John

Was the pipeline going to be wholly within the borders of just one state, or was it going to cut across many states?
Were federal lands (that the federal government owns like-crazy clear title to) not involved?
Did they not teach US history at your high school?

 

[Vic]

So take out Government Power. Then no one need be afraid.

-John

Yeah, then the guy(s) with the most guns and/or biggest armies can take anyone’s land that they want to!

You're not an anarchist, just an idiot. Protecting property rights is IMO government's most important function. And it's not just the police that protect those rights (far from it).

 

[pcgeek11]

So you're just going to post nonsense then?

It makes as much sense as claiming that the XL Pipeline would contribute to "Climate Change".

The oil is going to market if not through a pipeline, trucks and trains. No difference, just the administration's BS excuse.