Obama administration will reject Keystone XL pipeline

[Jhhnn]

I think it's important to understand that big oil has it's own geopolitical framework. Rivalries & discord abound as do long established relationships among the Petro Elite.

So why do American concerns want to use Canadian heavy crude to replace the cheap Venezuelan heavy crude they now use? Why have they been willing to make the investment to do so?

 

[Bowfinger]

The $3.9b number is the estimated increased revenues to Canada's energy industry with this pipeline in place. I searched google and found about a dozen different interpretations over just what this means. If you think that means the Upper-Midwest will be paying the full sum in extra costs, it's no use discussing anything ever with you Some people are estimating that if Canada diverts as much oil as it can away from other oil refineries in the U.S., and through the Keystone XL, and all onto the world export market, gas prices will increase around 40 cents per gallon in some U.S. states.

That's a lot of smoke just to corroborate my point: the taxes paid on this pipeline would be dwarfed by the increased energy costs to U.S. consumers.

It is quite simple for the U.S. government to enforce that this scenario will not happen.

That's a remarkably vague hypothetical. Quite simple, how? Are you suggesting Uncle Sam should start imposing price controls on petroleum products? A windfall profit tax on a Canadian company? Door number three?

How about the scenario that Canada builds a pipeline to their Pacific border and fills it with oil for export? Then we pay the full brunt of the increased prices AND have no tax revenue to show for it. Have you no ability to think things through? They build the pipeline through their land, the U.S. cannot enforce any terms.

What if? We know that option is less attractive for TransCanada, plus there has been much greater public opposition in Canada (perhaps due to the lack of GOP indoctrination?). If Canada ultimately chooses to accept the environmental risk, so be it. Until then, the Upper Midwest continues to benefit from the oversupply in the region.

tl;dr
stop acting like you know what you're talking about, and begin actually learning about these subjects.

Irony, you should follow your own advice. Your first comment to me was useless fluff. Your second showed ignorance of the TransCanada study showing the high cost to many Americans. Perhaps you should refrain from personal attacks until your own foundation is sound.

 

[sportage]

Actually I was all for the pipe line.
Too much of my oil investments have blown up on the rails.
it's either going by pipe or rail. I prefer pipe.
No really. And I was all for it.

I think Obama was too, but this was one time he could piss off republicans by doing something totally irrational, just like they always do to him.

 

[pcgeek11]

Actually I was all for the pipe line.
Too much of my oil investments have blown up on the rails.
it's either going by pipe or rail. I prefer pipe.
No really. And I was all for it.

I think Obama was too, but this was one time he could piss off republicans by doing something totally irrational, just like they always do to him.

Glad to see you admit that he is a POS.

 

[Bitek]

It was a land grab. The federal government was going to spend a shitload to acquire land through eminent domain that would then be handed over to the private interests building the pipeline. Those private interests made a considerable investment in 2014 congressional elections that now didn't pay off (mostly because oil prices have tanked and that market is in oversupply).
The discussions on this topic about jobs, oil trains, and climate change were all smokescreen.

The next debate on this topic will be that a whole slew of federal oil and gas leases are coming up for renewal, and the oil companies want to lock in sweet long term deals while the market is still depressed. Both sides are already getting their propaganda machines geared up.

+100

Both sides made some questionable arguments, the right can hardly finger point at the environmentalists when this became a feature of a national campaign.

Ironically this was most heavily backed by tea parties, who also rail against govt corruption and loss of individual rights by force of govt.

Considering this was a case of a powerful foreign corporation lobbying the US govt to seize land rights through eminent domain with little benefit to the landowners or national interest, this should have been a model for their principals.

But it wasn't, as the GOP isn't serious about these matters other than when it's convenient to attack the left or Obama.

TransCanada needed to be punched in the face for this strongarm attempt.

 

[Bitek]

And was it rejected on that basis? No. The President is very specific that he rejected it for CO2. For Climate Change.

A President with American interests would demand imported oil serve American interests, and we'd have it done.

And officer slam was fired for minor procedural violations when he let go of the student in the process of dwarf tossing her, but everyone with two brain cells knows it's because he's an asshole and needed to go.

 

[Eli]

Good.

 

[highland145]

So that oil will be moved by rail with the usual results. Our petulant President is concerned more with his legacy than the environment and the economy. 439 days left.

And who owns the rail company?

 

[cubby1223]

Comments from a Democrat in the senate:

"If in fact the model now is that you exert a tremendous amount of pressure in ways that are factually incorrect to stop any development of critical infrastructure for energy in this country, this is a bad, bad, bad decision," Heitkamp said. "I don't think this is a decision based on facts. I think it's a decision based on politics."

 

[boomerang]

And who owns the rail company?

Why, that would be Warren Buffett! Sounds like Obama is taking care of one his best buds.

 

[Jhhnn]

Why, that would be Warren Buffett! Sounds like Obama is taking care of one his best buds.

Always with the conspiracy, huh?


Buffet has been bullish on the pipeline, btw-

http://www.forbes.com/sites/zackoma...uffett-is-still-bullish-on-rail-and-keystone/

 

[Zorba]

Which people? Seriously I've been trying to figure out the controversy over this pipeline for a long time but it's impossible to sift through the FUD to get to any real economic arguments one way or the other. I still don't understand it at all. Who stand to lose money if the pipeline is built and who stands to gain?

I am not saying there is any type of conspiracy, but Warren Buffet stands to profit hugely off this and other pipelines not being built. Considering he bought BNSF right before fracking took off, and now BNSF makes a ton of money shipping oil by rail.

Funny, people and especially republicans are ALL FOR THIS pipeline.... EXCEPT ..... when they start digging in their back yards to install it.
Here in my republican state another pipeline coming thru has republicans ALL UP IN ARMS against this "other" pipeline because they (republicans) realized it would in fact come thru their neighborhoods. And THAT fact did not sit well with them.
Funny how that works.....

Outside of eminent domain issues, I've never heard people complaining about pipelines in Oklahoma, and believe me they are everywhere here. I personally love living in neighborhoods with pipelines, as it usually creates a long, wide right of way that creates a lot of green space for parks and trails.

 

[K1052]

I am not saying there is any type of conspiracy, but Warren Buffet stands to profit hugely off this and other pipelines not being built. Considering he bought BNSF right before fracking took off, and now BNSF makes a ton of money shipping oil by rail.



Outside of eminent domain issues, I've never heard people complaining about pipelines in Oklahoma, and believe me they are everywhere here. I personally love living in neighborhoods with pipelines, as it usually creates a long, wide right of way that creates a lot of green space for parks and trails.

The Transcanada pipeline wasn't going to divert more than a small fraction of rail shipped US crude, which is often headed to the coasts instead of Texas. Rail shipments out of ND for example are also declining as more domestic pipeline capacity comes online as well.

What people should be interested in is that companies that own pipelines should be held to strict standards. One place the president and congress have definately fallen short is requiring increased pipeline safety.

 

[Zargon]

weren't they still trying to run on top of the one of the largest fresh water aquifers in the US? instead of going around it because it 'costs too much'?


my big issue was that, but I haven't looked at this in ages, since Its not like I really have a voice in it

 

[highland145]

Why, that would be Warren Buffett! Sounds like Obama is taking care of one his best buds.

lol Really? That might explain it.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Here's what bothers me. Keystone was a shit deal from the beginning. Obama was against it, then he started getting push back so he tentatively was for it, then he had no opinion, now that oil is cheap and Canada is no longer supporting it he is against the pipeline. Obama played it way to safe.

 

[werepossum]

Here's what bothers me. Keystone was a shit deal from the beginning. Obama was against it, then he started getting push back so he tentatively was for it, then he had no opinion, now that oil is cheap and Canada is no longer supporting it he is against the pipeline. Obama played it way to safe.

Obama was never for it; he only had to pretend to be undecided in case oil prices were high during his reelection. That allows the low information voters to discount that issue should it become pertinent, but absolutely no one paying attention had any doubt. To Obama, the energy source of the future is proper tire inflation.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Obama was never for it; he only had to pretend to be undecided in case oil prices were high during his reelection. That allows the low information voters to discount that issue should it become pertinent, but absolutely no one paying attention had any doubt. To Obama, the energy source of the future is proper tire inflation.

Exactly a much more eloquently summary.

 

[Zorkorist]

This is all pure Socialism.

There isn't an ounce of Capitalism allowed today.

"You want to sell a shoe?!
I will smell your butt."

-John

I guess I will have to start adding Fascism into the equation too.

"an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization."

https://www.google.com/search?q=fac...ie7&rlz=1I7GGLR_en&gws_rd=ssl#q=facism&nfpr=1

-John

Not even close to the "Land of the Free" I grew up with.

-John

Communist, Socialist, and Fascist.

-John

Government has to be limited, and soon.

I'm afraid that I don't see any candidate that is trying to limit Government.

-John

 

[brycejones]

John must be doing shots tonight.

 

[zinfamous]

Not even close to the "Land of the Free" I grew up with.

-John

yeah it is.

only difference is that you were sober then. (you know, the years prior to your 12th birthday)

 

[Zorkorist]

Nope.

Not even close. Ya'll can attack, and pretend that you are smart, while being swallowed hole in Government, Socialism, Communism, Fascism (sp).

You are the problem with America. You are the problem today.

Clueless. And without any idea of what made America great.

-John

 

[ivwshane]

Nope.

Not even close. Ya'll can attack, and pretend that you are smart, while being swallowed hole in Government, Socialism, Communism, Fascism (sp).

You are the problem with America. You are the problem today.

Clueless. And without any idea of what made America great.

-John

Drunk people like you?

 

[Zorkorist]

Free people, like me.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

You can sit there, and shit each other,

that's what socialism, communism, is...

A race to shit on each other.

-John