Obama Administration to File Suit Against Arizona Immigration Law

[Infohawk]

The law disproportionately targets the Hispanic ethnicity, that's racist, illegal and I suspect unconstitutional.



Fortunately, the Constitution protects the rights of those whom even aren't citizens of our own country so we don't have idiots abusing those who come to our country just trying to find jobs that pay below minimum wage.

They are currently an estimated ten million illegal immigrants in the United States, with a number this significant it's basically impossible to remove them. The best option would be to finally secure our borders and give amnesty and citizenship to those who are currently in the United States illegally.



Fortunately, the United States is a free country and we're not required to carry identification. This law solely rests on a persons "look" and that by definition isn't considered "reasonable suspicion". A drivers license isn't even evidence that someone is in the country legally.

How do you know it targets Hispanics? Even if it affects Hispanics more, you'll still have to show an anti-Hispanic intent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Protection_Clause#Discriminatory_intent_and_disparate_impact.3F

Another problem with you reasoning is that it essentially means a country can never try to limit immigration because someone might see it as racist.

You don't have to deport ten million illegals. You just have to block their ability to work and get benefits. They'll leave once you do that.

 

[xchangx]

The law disproportionately targets the Hispanic ethnicity, that's racist, illegal and I suspect unconstitutional.



Fortunately, the Constitution protects the rights of those whom even aren't citizens of our own country so we don't have idiots abusing those who come to our country just trying to find jobs that pay below minimum wage.

They are currently an estimated ten million illegal immigrants in the United States, with a number this significant it's basically impossible to remove them. The best option would be to finally secure our borders and give amnesty and citizenship to those who are currently in the United States illegally.



Fortunately, the United States is a free country and we're not required to carry identification. This law solely rests on a persons "look" and that by definition isn't considered "reasonable suspicion". A drivers license isn't even evidence that someone is in the country legally.

Do you have a source that shows it targets the Hispanic ethnicity? I'll go ahead and link the bill for you.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Seems a lot of liberals leave this subsection out:
J. THIS SECTION SHALL BE IMPLEMENTED IN A MANNER CONSISTENT WITH FEDERAL LAWS REGULATING IMMIGRATION, PROTECTING THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF ALL PERSONS AND RESPECTING THE PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES OF UNITED STATES CITIZENS.

 

[Bateluer]

Total BS. Very poor move on the Obama Administration. This guy is all over the map.

 

[mrjminer]

Could the state avoid this potential holdup by making it a requirement that everyone is required to show U.S. citizenship? I think citizens would definitely go for that (as opposed to the alternative) if it's the only way they can do it; it couldn't be labeled as a 'racist'/targetting law if everyone was forced to do it.

 

[Tab]

How do you know it targets Hispanics? Even if it affects Hispanics more, you'll still have to show an anti-Hispanic intent. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Protection_Clause#Discriminatory_intent_and_disparate_impact.3F

There could, and probably would be some cases where a law such as this could be legitimately used but the line between reasonable suspicion and abuse is so fine; we're just plain better off not doing this.

The bill doesn't state how police officer are to identify someone who is in the country illegally, and when Jan Brewer was asked what an illegal immigrant looked like - she said she didn't know.

They're also the basic idea that this is a free country, we're not required to carry ID on us. And, unknown to many a Drivers License isn't evidence of legal residence. Honestly, who carries around a birth certificate or their Social Security Card. Which, in the 80s were printed on extra thick paper with some fancy ink - not that hard to copy.

Another problem with you reasoning is that it essentially means a country can never try to limit immigration because someone might see it as racist.

Tell me what my reasoning is and how it means we can't limit immigration.

You don't have to deport ten million illegals. You just have to block their ability to work and get benefits. They'll leave once you do that.

Most of the illegal immigrants that are coming to the United States do so under extraordinary circumstances. Many of them are young, little life experience and no skills beyond their physical abilities. They come here, knowing no one, working for less the minimum wage, no place to live, knowing no one and don't get benefits.

The only solution, would be to fix the problems in their native countries but that'd probably won't happen for another Century though probably more.

Do you have a source that shows it targets the Hispanic ethnicity? I'll go ahead and link the bill for you.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

Seems a lot of liberals leave this subsection out:
J. THIS SECTION SHALL BE IMPLEMENTED IN A MANNER CONSISTENT WITH FEDERAL LAWS REGULATING IMMIGRATION, PROTECTING THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF ALL PERSONS AND RESPECTING THE PRIVILEGES AND IMMUNITIES OF UNITED STATES CITIZENS.

So?

The law admits it'll respect federal regulations, too bad it's incapable of doing so.

 

[Zebo]

I love how Mexican whites who control all wealth and power are throwing out their Indians out and call us racist for not wanting them.

How about making Mexico a little more egalitarian? No can't have that lets get rid of them once and for all. America is stupid enough.

 

[tivo20]

You do know a lot of them are not indians but mixed of european and native american blood and they are not indians they do not like being called that

 

[shortylickens]

You do know a lot of them are not indians but mixed of european and native american blood and they are not indians they do not like being called that

Hello newb! Welcome.
For reference, most of the P&N crowd doesnt care too much what other people like to be called, unless theres a chance someone here could label someone else here as a racist.

As far as the whole "Native American" thing goes: This land was not called America until after europeans settled it and gave it a name. Native Americans are people born and raised on the land known as America, which, for example, is people like me. Indian, while technically wrong, is a lot more descriptive term. American Indian would be the ideal term.

And lets face it, when we talk about those people we arent going to say "Souix, Cherokee, Dakota", and so on every time we mention them. We're gonna use one word or phrase we think appropriate and then move on.

Have a good time new guy, and if you wanna keep your sanity, stay the fuck out of P&N.

 

[tivo20]

lol newb mostly at posting but i have been here longer reading different topics for a while already. I've seen how it gets here its pretty nasty from what i see.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

The law disproportionately targets the Hispanic ethnicity, that's racist, illegal and I suspect unconstitutional.

How does it disproportionately target Hispanics? Please point to language in the law stating that people of Hispanic origin are to be "more" suspected of being illegals and therefore, should be asked for proof of citizenship more often than others.

Fortunately, the Constitution protects the rights of those whom even aren't citizens of our own country so we don't have idiots abusing those who come to our country just trying to find jobs that pay below minimum wage.

What rights are being violated by asking people for proof of citizenship if they're stopped for another violation? Using this logic, I guess my rights are being violated when I am forced to provide valid government-issued ID at the airport or when asked at any number of other occasions because heck, I am not even being suspected of anything at those times!

They are currently an estimated ten million illegal immigrants in the United States, with a number this significant it's basically impossible to remove them. The best option would be to finally secure our borders and give amnesty and citizenship to those who are currently in the United States illegally.

I agree with you that the best option would be to secure our borders and not have to deal with these sorts of laws, but the Fed has failed and Arizona has called them on it.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

There could, and probably would be some cases where a law such as this could be legitimately used but the line between reasonable suspicion and abuse is so fine; we're just plain better off not doing this.

The bill doesn't state how police officer are to identify someone who is in the country illegally, and when Jan Brewer was asked what an illegal immigrant looked like - she said she didn't know.

Maybe they should just ask everyone for proof during a stop?

They're also the basic idea that this is a free country, we're not required to carry ID on us. And, unknown to many a Drivers License isn't evidence of legal residence. Honestly, who carries around a birth certificate or their Social Security Card. Which, in the 80s were printed on extra thick paper with some fancy ink - not that hard to copy.

Actually, Arizona does accept the drivers licenses from most states as proof of citizenship. There are a few states which Arizona will not accept, and that's because those states do not verify legal residency when granting the drivers license.

A couple of thoughts on the subject:

1. I find it humorous that many people (mainly on the left it seems), decry possibly "abuse" of the law by Arizona cops but seem to think the Feds would be incapable of "abusing" the similar Federal laws (or any law for that matter). I suppose if the Feds actually enforced the laws, however, the left would cry.
2. As I have said numerous times in this forum, I would have preferred that the Fed did their job and properly enforced immigration so states like Arizona would NOT have had to pass a law like this one. That has not happened, however, and Arizona has forced a "time to shit or get off the pot" showdown with the Fed. I personally think Arizona will get screwed on this matter in the courts, unfortunately.

 

[Lemon law]

Just a few comments, its the US justice Department and not Obama that will likely be filing the lawsuits challenging the constitutionality of the AZ. law. And its still an academic question, other groups with legal standing have already challenged the law in Court.
In short some of you right wingnut posters confuse Obama with being the dictator GWB&co tried to be. In short, the constitutionality of the AZ law is already a ward of the Courts, and if the courts say its unconstitutional, the law will be toast regardless of what Obama does. But if the courts find no constitutional flaws in the AZ law, it will stand regardless of what Obama does. And once such a court challenge occurs, its often customary for the Courts to issue an injunction delaying initial enforcement of the law until the courts make up their minds as slow as they diddly darn feel like it.

Second, I do not believe its in the job description or within the pay grade of Secretary of State to make public comments about a internal Justice Department matter. In short, Hillary stuck her nose into something that she should not have. Its just not her call.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Just a few comments, its the US justice Department and not Obama

Of course not.

Here is how this works in the real world and always has. The President tells the JD to look into something and it does. If the President says that he believes there is an issue, the JD will approach it from that POV. It will look for a way to overturn whatever as it's primary goal.

Oh to be sure the Justice Department's stamp will be on everything, but as with the last administration and countless ones before it the basis for action will be political.

In short some of you right wingnut posters confuse Obama with being the dictator GWB&co tried to be.

Coming from a Hamas apologist (oh yes you are), an organization dedicated to wiping out Israel as a core principle, you have no credibility on which to criticize "wingnuts". You didn't like Bush's policies (and neither did I) but I know the meaning of dictator. I also know scoundrels operating under the guise of freedom fighters. You do not, or perhaps it's more than that? Maybe your hatred of one side excuses the other. Yes, that's very possible.

 

[cubby1223]

This course of action is one of the stupidest things I have ever seen. It's beyond comprehension.

And what is Hillary Clinton doing "leaking" the news to Ecuador? Seriously. She says there it is because Obama believes immigration policy should be determined at the federal level not the state level.

Are you fucking kidding me Clinton???!!!!!!

The AZ law basically says they can check if someone is in compliance with federal law or not, and if not hand that person over to federal authoritites.

What policy is being created or changed???!!!!!!!

 

[cubby1223]

Fortunately, the Constitution...

Fortunately, the Supreme Court has already tried and declared the federal laws constitutional. The Supreme Court has already tried and declared that states can enforce federal law.

The best option would be to finally secure our borders.

Yea this country has been saying this for twenty-five years and it's still not secure. And you cannot claim Obama has shown willingness to secure the border. Obama did not want to even meet with Gov. Brewer, did not want to talk to her about the situation in AZ. He reluctantly decided on sending 1,200 national guard to the border, but that process will likely be dragged on for eternity and from my understanding they'll be just desk jobs not actual guards out on the border land.

So you can forget about the federal government giving any thought to securing the border. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[Zebo]

You do know a lot of them are not indians but mixed of european and native american blood and they are not indians they do not like being called that

Everyone knows when you say Mexican Indians you mean people that look from the tribes (Acatec, Oaxaca, etc, etc etc) and are the ones white Mexicans are kicking out to us via apartheid polices. e.g. guys like this

Not a White mexican like this

I probably should have used the word indigenous Mexicans though. I just think it the height of hypocrisy when the White Mexican politicians, whites who only make up 1/6th of Mexico and control everything, call USA racist when they don't want their own indigenous population and actively disempower them so they leave.

 

[cubby1223]

Second, I do not believe its in the job description or within the pay grade of Secretary of State to make public comments about a internal Justice Department matter. In short, Hillary stuck her nose into something that she should not have. Its just not her call.

Nor was it Obama's position to tell a rally in Iowa that because of the AZ law you can be walking down the street to get ice cream for your children, and will be harassed by law enforcement. But he said it.

Although I will give Obama some credit because at that speech he does say he wants illegals to learn English to be here in this country.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Maybe they should just ask everyone for proof during a stop?



Actually, Arizona does accept the drivers licenses from most states as proof of citizenship. There are a few states which Arizona will not accept, and that's because those states do not verify legal residency when granting the drivers license.

A couple of thoughts on the subject:

1. I find it humorous that many people (mainly on the left it seems), decry possibly "abuse" of the law by Arizona cops but seem to think the Feds would be incapable of "abusing" the similar Federal laws (or any law for that matter). I suppose if the Feds actually enforced the laws, however, the left would cry.
2. As I have said numerous times in this forum, I would have preferred that the Fed did their job and properly enforced immigration so states like Arizona would NOT have had to pass a law like this one. That has not happened, however, and Arizona has forced a "time to shit or get off the pot" showdown with the Fed. I personally think Arizona will get screwed on this matter in the courts, unfortunately.

Asking everyone for proof would eliminate one of the big strikes the law has against it.
There is still the sticky issue of what to do with people from states that issue DLs to illegals.

I agree with your second point, sometimes the states need to give the feds a poke to get them in to action. While I have issues with the way SB1070 is, it sure has brought the issue to a national spotlight.
The Marijuana law that is on the ballot for November here in California is something similar. It's a poke at the feds to say "Hey, Your drug laws are stupidly draconian, we're going to do our own thing until you stop us or change them."

 

[Infohawk]

Everyone knows when you say Mexican Indians you mean people that look from the tribes (Acatec, Oaxaca, etc, etc etc) and are the ones white Mexicans are kicking out to us via apartheid polices. e.g. guys like this

Not a White mexican like this

I probably should have used the word indigenous Mexicans though. I just think it the height of hypocrisy when the White Mexican politicians, whites who only make up 1/6th of Mexico and control everything, call USA racist when they don't want their own indigenous population and actively disempower them so they leave.

Good points. I don't think many Americans really understand that there is dynamic in Mexico and many Latin American countries. I don't think it's a good dynamic. Allowing unfettered illegal immigration from these countries is more likely to turn us into a third world country than magically raise the standard of living for everyone that crosses the boarder. If we allow a reasonable legal immigration, on the other hand, we probably would be able to permanently raise the standard of living for the chicanos.

 

[Lemon law]

Maybe the other thing to point out is the fact that many of our illegal immigrants come from Central American countries, they find means to go through Mexico, and then line up with other Mexicans to sneak through the porous Southern Border of the USA.

And once a few get through and send a good part of their wages back home, it inspires more and more of their countrymen to make the attempt.

And its not cheap, its big business South of the border, experienced and ethical and often unethical coyotes charge more than $1000 bucks a head. And now violent drug gangs are joining the party.

 

[Patranus]

Its nice to see the AG of AZ decide not to do his job.

 

[blackangst1]

A non-citizen shouldn't be issued a dl in the first place

Why shouldnt someone with a green card or work permit not be able to drive?

 

[blackangst1]

The law disproportionately targets the Hispanic ethnicity, that's racist, illegal and I suspect unconstitutional.

Really? Because the text of the law specifically does the opposite. You obviously havent read the bill, right? Perhaps you can post which part of the bill specifically targets hispanics for us?

Fortunately, the United States is a free country and we're not required to carry identification. This law solely rests on a persons "look" and that by definition isn't considered "reasonable suspicion". A drivers license isn't even evidence that someone is in the country legally.

But, AZ and 23 other states are stop and identify states. Those laws are not unconstitutional. And, with the exception of a handful of states, a DL DOES prove legality.

With all due respect, you need to read the bill and quote where your views are supported. Because, basically, youre apeing talking points not based in law, or reality.

 

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Why shouldnt someone with a green card or work permit not be able to drive?

I don't think that's what Sawyer meant. I think he meant (and he can correct me on this) that illegal aliens should not be able to get drivers' licenses. And I agree. You shouldn't be able to drive in this country if you're here illegally.

 

[Tab]

I guess my post drew quite a bit of response, I'm going to address everything in bullet-point fashion as quite a few people are essentially repeating the same arguments. No point in addressing the same thing over and over. If you feel I missed something, please bring it up and I'll address it.

• The law doesn't isn't specific about any race, therefore it's not racist! There's no language in the bill the targets Hispanics/Latinos.

At face-value yes, but the majority of those that are in the United States illegally are of Hispanic ethnicity. By this logic, and under the new law officers will be required to check the immigration status of every Hispanic.

• What's wrong with having to have ID at all times?

This is a free country, we can go and do what we want was we please. We shouldn't be harassed, just because.

• Well, they ask for my ID at a bar!

The exception comes with things such as using public roads, purchasing alcohol and using mass transit. We need to be sure that the people who use these things do so responsibly.

• I don't care, every should have ID on them. If they have ID, then they've got nothing to worry about!

Not quite, a drivers license isn't valid proof of citizenship. A birth certificate, Social Security Card or Passport are evidence of citizenship.
Unforunatly, most people find it a burden to carry these items on them and they can be easily faked. Meaning, that even if every Hispanic Person carried these items, they'd probably be detained in the meantime while ICE checks the validity of thier immigration status.

This essentially makes Hispanics second-class citizens.

• 
  Well, we wouldn't have this problem if the Federal Government actually did their jobs and fixed the borders!

My mom told me that two wrongs, don't make a right. I guess they're aren't a whole lot of good mommies in Arizona.

• This law doesn't do anything the Federal Law doesn't do already.

No, it requires all law-enforcement to check the immigration status of anyone they suspect in being on the country illegally, and they're aren't even any guidelines. Hence, there's a complete lack of "probable cause".

• Obama is doing anything about the border! Fuck him!

He actually sent 1,200 troops to the border and ICE, Customs are already being rapidly expanded. If you don't like Obama, feel free to vote agaisnt him in 2012. Though, I don't believe you'll be any more impressed by the Republican Opitions given Bush's reluctance to do anything with protecting our border other than passing on the issue to another administration.

• You're an idiot liberal, your points aren't in reality, you're a leftist. Fuck you commie.

You got me, too bad my evil plan of protecting the rights of minorities and the constitution is going to win and your stupid law is going to fail.