NY Target store rejects unionization

[HeXen]

Sure, why make a decent wage with benefits.

lol, wow, you really have no clue do you? The obvious part however, would seem that there must be a logical reason why employees of certain business's would not want any part of it. If you don't understand the reasons, you should not be having an opinion about it.

 

[Jhhnn]

In reality right to work, keeps the unions from getting stupid with power and destroying industry. Right to work is a check on excessive union power.

Heh. The reality in the US is that RTW keeps unions from having any power in states so afflicted.

Unions *obviously* aren't stupid with power atm, and yet the financial elite keeps driving industry into the dirt, taking more off the top than the system will support. Prime example-

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/05/business/economy/05simmons.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Yea there was. Its complete BS that you are not allowed to help someone outside your department for one.

from what i've heard, this is not untrue.

 

[ProfJohn]

Sure, why make a decent wage with benefits.

Really? So joining a union guarantees that?

Maybe you should watch 'Roger and Me' they were ALL in an union and now they are ALL unemployed... how did that happen?

Same thing with Steel workers.

And textile workers.

 

[cubby1223]

Heres one of the many things Target made the employees watch.

http://gawker.com/5811371/heres-the-cheesy-anti+union-video-all-target-employees-must-endure

Oh the horrors!

Yea it's one-sided, but it's still the decision of the employees.

Ever see some of the literature unions push out? That video is far more objective than what I've seen from unions. Maybe unions need to do something more productive than declaring New Jersey Nazi Germany All throughout my state of Illinois we have had in the recent times countless road construction projects, countless school construction projects, delayed due to striking unions. We need our children to be in school, and everyone hates roads under construction, and unions are standing in the way of these things. Bitch and moan all you want, but this is reality. This is union perception.

 

[cubby1223]

Really? So joining a union guarantees that?

Maybe you should watch 'Roger and Me' they were ALL in an union and now they are ALL unemployed... how did that happen?

Same thing with Steel workers.

And textile workers.

Yes... but...

it was a collective firing All workers were treated equally?

 

[Nebor]

Heh. The reality in the US is that RTW keeps unions from having any power in states so afflicted.

Unions *obviously* aren't stupid with power atm, and yet the financial elite keeps driving industry into the dirt, taking more off the top than the system will support. Prime example-

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/05/business/economy/05simmons.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th

That is brilliant finance work. Sure, the fortunes of the investors and employees of Simmons are seeing some hard times, but the employees and owners of THL are doing great. That's how capitalism works, when someone's up, someone else is down. I bet the Simmons investors wish they'd never approved that first sale (where they no doubt thought THEY were going to come out on top.)

 

[ProfJohn]

Yea there was. Its complete BS that you are not allowed to help someone outside your department for one.

Really???

Ever heard of union rules?

There are lots of union places where you can only do your job and not someone else's. If a light bulb burns out you have to call an electrician. If the floor needs to be swept you have to call custodial.

All of the old automotive threads were filled with people who worked at car plants and talked about how bad the rules were and how you weren't able to do anything beyond your job.

 

[Darwin333]

If you don't want to be represented by the union, you could find a different place to work.

So the argument that "if you want to be represented by a union, you could find a different place to work" is just as valid?

 

[Darwin333]

Heres one of the many things Target made the employees watch.

http://gawker.com/5811371/heres-the-cheesy-anti+union-video-all-target-employees-must-endure

Did they get paid to watch it? I would gladly collect money to watch some bullshit instead of actually working.

 

[Nebor]

So the argument that "if you want to be represented by a union, you could find a different place to work" is just as valid?

One would assume so.

 

[ProfJohn]

So the argument that "if you want to be represented by a union, you could find a different place to work" is just as valid?

No, because people who don't want to be represented by a union are to stupid to know better.

 

[Darwin333]

Sure, why make a decent wage with benefits.

Around here, at least in construction which I am extremely familiar with (local market) the union shops aren't working at all while most of the non union businesses are at the very least treading water. As a silver lining the unions do have a lot more time to protest non-union companies on jobsites now but since it is summer they only protest a few hours a day. I even stop to give them water when I am checking my projects that they (it is friggen hot as hell but my guys are working all day and they are basically standing still, shrug, not my problem).

 

[pcgeek11]

from what i've heard, this is not untrue.

It is true what from what I have seen of union shops.

When we were in the shipyard ( Mare Island ) we would have the painters come down to paint a section of the ship. They could not paint because there were some "things" in the way. These were small things like boxes and crates etc that could have been moved by hand. What did they have to do .... Call for riggers to come and move them out of the way and waste 1/2 a day waiting. Union shop they were not allowed to move anything, that what the riggers are for. They could have moved them in 5 minutes and been done and painting.

 

[Jhhnn]

That is brilliant finance work. Sure, the fortunes of the investors and employees of Simmons are seeing some hard times, but the employees and owners of THL are doing great. That's how capitalism works, when someone's up, someone else is down. I bet the Simmons investors wish they'd never approved that first sale (where they no doubt thought THEY were going to come out on top.)

It's looting, which is what's wrong with our whole economy, enabled by headsets like your own that sanctify & glorify the destruction of enterprise purely for financial gain by a very, very few.

 

[Nebor]

It's looting, which is what's wrong with our whole economy, enabled by headsets like your own that sanctify & glorify the destruction of enterprise purely for financial gain by a very, very few.

Think of it as a food chain. There are fewer and fewer people towards the top of the chain, that have the speed, the intellect, the killer instinct, etc. To fault the few because they were ingenious enough to outmaneuver the many seems petty.

Particularly in your case. The board of Simmons sold their company hoping to make big money. They did so with the knowledge that there was some risk involved, for themselves and for all their employees. But instead of coming out on top, they came out on bottom. And the employees, well, someone's got to the plankton in this food chain.

 

[Jhhnn]

It is true what from what I have seen of union shops.

When we were in the shipyard ( Mare Island ) we would have the painters come down to paint a section of the ship. They could not paint because there were some "things" in the way. These were small things like boxes and crates etc that could have been moved by hand. What did they have to do .... Call for riggers to come and move them out of the way and waste 1/2 a day waiting. Union shop they were not allowed to move anything, that what the riggers are for. They could have moved them in 5 minutes and been done and painting.

"We"? Who is this "We"? If "We" show contempt for union workers, then "We" can expect them to break our balls whenever possible... Particularly if "We" have displaced other union workers...

 

[nonlnear]

Think of it as a food chain. There are fewer and fewer people towards the top of the chain, that have the speed, the intellect, the killer instinct, etc. To fault the few because they were ingenious enough to outmaneuver the many seems petty.

Particularly in your case. The board of Simmons sold their company hoping to make big money. They did so with the knowledge that there was some risk involved, for themselves and for all their employees. But instead of coming out on top, they came out on bottom. And the employees, well, someone's got to the plankton in this food chain.

It's not entirely a symphony to the power of free markets though. The M&A ponzi scheme is only possible because regulations institutionalize corrupt bond rating agencies who have powerful incentives to lie. If the regulatory structure actually encouraged the transparency of information rather than its obfuscation I wouldn't be the least bit critical of the PE industry. However they are in bed with the bond raters, and the corrupt Repubs and Dems on the finance committees. They sell the free market line to gullible voters who want to believe the world is simpler than it is.

 

[God Mode]

Unions are a stupid idea as long as there are equally skilled people willing to work the same job without union benefits. The entire system is a race to the bottom. The one who has the capital to hold out the longest wins.

 

[pcgeek11]

"We"? Who is this "We"? If "We" show contempt for union workers, then "We" can expect them to break our balls whenever possible... Particularly if "We" have displaced other union workers...

We = The ships crew which I was a member of while in the USN.

"We" didn't show any contempt towards the Union Workers. The Painters ( a union shop ) were on board the ship to paint a compartment. They were not allowed to move a few crates due to union rules so they could paint. They had to call another union shop ( riggers ) to move the boxes before they could paint. It would have taken them 5 minutes to move said boxes, but instead it took about 4 hours.

K

 

[nonlnear]

We = The ships crew which I was a member of while in the USN.

"We" didn't show any contempt towards the Union Workers. The Painters ( a union shop ) were on board the ship to paint a compartment. They were not allowed to move a few crates due to union rules so they could paint. They had to call another union shop ( riggers ) to move the boxes before they could paint. It would have taken them 5 minutes to move said boxes, but instead it took about 4 hours.

K

You lie! Unions never do things like that!

 

[ChunkiMunki]

joining a union does not guarantee decent wages and benefits, but you have to try in order to better your conditions, if you choose a retail job. A single person has no bargaining power. The only guarantee you have working retail without a union is, you will be making the same pay in 5 years as you do now...no sick leave, pension, vacation or regular working hours.. That is guaranteed. But the management door is always open should you have any questions or concerns, cuz they really want to see you succeed.

I have NEVER seen or experienced an employee in any retail store, union or not, say "it's not my department." and leave.

 

[JSt0rm]

We = The ships crew which I was a member of while in the USN.

"We" didn't show any contempt towards the Union Workers. The Painters ( a union shop ) were on board the ship to paint a compartment. They were not allowed to move a few crates due to union rules so they could paint. They had to call another union shop ( riggers ) to move the boxes before they could paint. It would have taken them 5 minutes to move said boxes, but instead it took about 4 hours.

K

I work in the film industry. The union stuff for all the workers is pretty crazy. Lots of weird shit can happen on a film set. So everyone is only allowed to do their own jobs. You need special training to go in small spaces. 3 people died because they went into a small space under a sound stage and suffocated. They didnt have the proper training for that environment. There is global safety training stuff on down to dumb shit like dont turn on the power if a breaker has been locked out.

Accidents happen. While the situation you mentioned would of probably ended up with savings of 3 hours you can not say that to be true in all situations.

 

[Nebor]

I work in the film industry. The union stuff for all the workers is pretty crazy. Lots of weird shit can happen on a film set. So everyone is only allowed to do their own jobs. You need special training to go in small spaces. 3 people died because they went into a small space under a sound stage and suffocated. They didnt have the proper training for that environment. There is global safety training stuff on down to dumb shit like dont turn on the power if a breaker has been locked out.

Accidents happen. While the situation you mentioned would of probably ended up with savings of 3 hours you can not say that to be true in all situations.

Most producers decry Hollywood unionization as being totally inefficient and sometimes lethal to production. It's essentially all the little people trying to get paid like the big fish just because they know the money's there. Sorry, but operating a boom mike or cue cards isn't a $100k a year job.

 

[FuzzyBee]

Question, why is it that if a majority of people in my workplace want a union we must all unionize and be represented by a third party that some may not wish to be?
And the employer MUST negotiate with that third party.

The workplace is not a democracy.

If the people that voted for a union want a union, why don't they just start one?

I have no problems with unions as long as they're not afforded any special protections by the government.

If you live in a "right to work" state, you don't have to join the union.