NWN2 Feed Back and Patch Discussion Thread

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: shortylickens
Well, I suffered through it just because of the good D&D battles, (which of course were a pain because you cant control your team worth a damn) and now I am stuck at the end.
Dont intend to restart it unless I can get some help.

-

why do people say this?

supporting NPCs always get "stuck" ... even happened occasionally in KotOR ... where they simply fail to follow you [for example, thru a door], or stand there stupidly.

isn't that when you hit the space bar; change your unresponsive NPC to lead and point it in the right direction?

i use *pause* ... a LOT



it ain't cheating? is it?
:shocked:


it may be 'slow' but it is a very 'sure' way of doing battle in D&D games ... *absolute control* of each party member
{this is what i hate about D&D battles ... the lack of 'fluidity' that Oblivion type games have (although you can overuse pause also}

 

[Mem]

supporting NPCs always get "stuck" ... even happened occasionally in KotOR ... where they simply fail to follow you [for example, thru a door], or stand there stupidly.

isn't that when you hit the space bar; change your unresponsive NPC to lead and point it in the right direction?

i use *pause* ... a LOT

I use it when a NPC does the wrong thing ,like goes in the wrong direction,if he gets killed then I just reload an earlier save point,very important to have quite a few saves with D&D games,even in battle new save points can help.

 

[apoppin]

ah yes ... i *save* too ... even in the middle of a battle .. depending on how complex it is

but *pause* is pretty darn important in D&D games ... much more so than in FPS games.

 

[shortylickens]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: shortylickens
Well, I suffered through it just because of the good D&D battles, (which of course were a pain because you cant control your team worth a damn) and now I am stuck at the end.
Dont intend to restart it unless I can get some help.
-

why do people say this?
supporting NPCs always get "stuck" ... even happened occasionally in KotOR ... where they simply fail to follow you [for example, thru a door], or stand there stupidly.
isn't that when you hit the space bar; change your unresponsive NPC to lead and point it in the right direction?
i use *pause* ... a LOT

it ain't cheating? is it?
:shocked:
it may be 'slow' but it is a very 'sure' way of doing battle in D&D games ... *absolute control* of each party member
{this is what i hate about D&D battles ... the lack of 'fluidity' that Oblivion type games have (although you can overuse pause also}

I can only assume you never played Baldurs Gate 1 or 2.
They do not ALWAYS get stuck. And you dont have ABSOLUTE control over them.
I agree you should pause a lot to issue orders, but its still a pain to control them. Doesnt help there is no speed adjust like in BG2.
And any time you change to another character, all the other fools drop what they're doing and run to stand next to them. Again, not something that happened with Baldurs Gate.
You also cant completely disable the AI and give real orders one at a time. That puppet mode is a joke, certainly not as good as disabling AI in BG. That was only one click on the main screen.

I think I must sound a bit repetative, but BG 1 and 2 were the closest thing to real D&D and now we have to settle for 2nd rate products because game companies cant get along.

Thanks for the above info on destroying the shrines and stuff. I dont recall Ammon Jerro saying anything about them but then again, there was so much talking at the end I cant remember much of anything.

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

Originally posted by: shortylickens

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: shortylickens
Well, I suffered through it just because of the good D&D battles, (which of course were a pain because you cant control your team worth a damn) and now I am stuck at the end.
Dont intend to restart it unless I can get some help.
-

why do people say this?
supporting NPCs always get "stuck" ... even happened occasionally in KotOR ... where they simply fail to follow you [for example, thru a door], or stand there stupidly.
isn't that when you hit the space bar; change your unresponsive NPC to lead and point it in the right direction?
i use *pause* ... a LOT

it ain't cheating? is it?
:shocked:
it may be 'slow' but it is a very 'sure' way of doing battle in D&D games ... *absolute control* of each party member
{this is what i hate about D&D battles ... the lack of 'fluidity' that Oblivion type games have (although you can overuse pause also}

I can only assume you never played Baldurs Gate 1 or 2.
They do not ALWAYS get stuck. And you dont have ABSOLUTE control over them.
I agree you should pause a lot to issue orders, but its still a pain to control them. Doesnt help there is no speed adjust like in BG2.
And any time you change to another character, all the other fools drop what they're doing and run to stand next to them. Again, not something that happened with Baldurs Gate.
You also cant completely disable the AI and give real orders one at a time. That puppet mode is a joke, certainly not as good as disabling AI in BG. That was only one click on the main screen.

I think I must sound a bit repetative, but BG 1 and 2 were the closest thing to real D&D and now we have to settle for 2nd rate products because game companies cant get along.

Thanks for the above info on destroying the shrines and stuff. I dont recall Ammon Jerro saying anything about them but then again, there was so much talking at the end I cant remember much of anything.

This is why the first thing I did was download Evenflow's AI script, because I wouldn't have had the stomach to micromanage the crappy stock AI. I only put my main character on puppet mode and let the rest manage themselves, so then I didn't have the problems of pulling everyone else when I switched characters.

The pathfinding may be the worst I've ever seen.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: a123456

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Oh BTW, I would like to play a Drow, but will everyone try to kill me like they did Viconia after I get out of my hometown (or does your race even have an effect on Dialog options?)

No, you just get the quasi-buggy light penalty most of the time and maybe a few race oriented dialog things, but nothing really major. The major disadvantage is just the ECL, which is known.

Well thats no fun, it would be cool to try to remain unknown to them, but no, they dont care who you are, lame. Anywho, what is the ECL?

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: shortylickens
Well, I suffered through it just because of the good D&D battles, (which of course were a pain because you cant control your team worth a damn) and now I am stuck at the end.
Dont intend to restart it unless I can get some help.

-

why do people say this?

supporting NPCs always get "stuck" ... even happened occasionally in KotOR ... where they simply fail to follow you [for example, thru a door], or stand there stupidly.

isn't that when you hit the space bar; change your unresponsive NPC to lead and point it in the right direction?

i use *pause* ... a LOT



it ain't cheating? is it?
:shocked:


it may be 'slow' but it is a very 'sure' way of doing battle in D&D games ... *absolute control* of each party member
{this is what i hate about D&D battles ... the lack of 'fluidity' that Oblivion type games have (although you can overuse pause also}

because anyone used to the control from BG2 will realize the shortcomings of the AI-only approach featured in NWN2. if the computer is making a character move while i'm taking care of something else, that may be useful, but not what i want/need (especially when it comes to spellcasters:|). if there were a way to bring back BG2 party control (including formations), i'd be all over it.

 

[Whitecloak]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: shortylickens
Well, I suffered through it just because of the good D&D battles, (which of course were a pain because you cant control your team worth a damn) and now I am stuck at the end.
Dont intend to restart it unless I can get some help.

-

why do people say this?

supporting NPCs always get "stuck" ... even happened occasionally in KotOR ... where they simply fail to follow you [for example, thru a door], or stand there stupidly.

isn't that when you hit the space bar; change your unresponsive NPC to lead and point it in the right direction?

i use *pause* ... a LOT



it ain't cheating? is it?
:shocked:


it may be 'slow' but it is a very 'sure' way of doing battle in D&D games ... *absolute control* of each party member
{this is what i hate about D&D battles ... the lack of 'fluidity' that Oblivion type games have (although you can overuse pause also}

because anyone used to the control from BG2 will realize the shortcomings of the AI-only approach featured in NWN2. if the computer is making a character move while i'm taking care of something else, that may be useful, but not what i want/need (especially when it comes to spellcasters:|). if there were a way to bring back BG2 party control (including formations), i'd be all over it.

formations would have been a nice addition to nwn. also, the option choose the kind of attack would have been nice too.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: shortylickens
Well, I suffered through it just because of the good D&D battles, (which of course were a pain because you cant control your team worth a damn) and now I am stuck at the end.
Dont intend to restart it unless I can get some help.

-

why do people say this?

supporting NPCs always get "stuck" ... even happened occasionally in KotOR ... where they simply fail to follow you [for example, thru a door], or stand there stupidly.

isn't that when you hit the space bar; change your unresponsive NPC to lead and point it in the right direction?

i use *pause* ... a LOT



it ain't cheating? is it?
:shocked:


it may be 'slow' but it is a very 'sure' way of doing battle in D&D games ... *absolute control* of each party member
{this is what i hate about D&D battles ... the lack of 'fluidity' that Oblivion type games have (although you can overuse pause also}

because anyone used to the control from BG2 will realize the shortcomings of the AI-only approach featured in NWN2. if the computer is making a character move while i'm taking care of something else, that may be useful, but not what i want/need (especially when it comes to spellcasters:|). if there were a way to bring back BG2 party control (including formations), i'd be all over it.

first of all, you DO realize that you can completely disable any character's AI in your party and directly control it ... move by move ... round by round ... even pausing in the middle of a round to control another char and back again.

... i believe that is the way the 'purists' - the real role-players play NWN2 ... putting many hundreds of hours into it ...

Me ... i just [over]use pause.

you can seriously stop the spellcaster [pause] from casting ANY spells at the beginning of the attack so he will only use his bow ... unpause ... move your tank ... one turn ... pause ... move your lead ... unpause ... one round ... pause ... change your bard's instrument ... back to your Spellcaster to unload the Big Spells on the boss ... etc ... etc

just takes 'awhile'

it allows for INFINITE *fiddling*and absolutely MAXing each of your character's strengths ... i may lose a Boss Battle *once* but [so far] that's 'it'

OT ... i just *had* to look up Dungeons&Dragons ... the Original role-playing games just to see how much it has changed from the early 70s .... not really that much ... it is up to D&D 3.5 which was last "updated" in 2003 ...

kinda interesting and gives a 'feel' for how the RPG adapted to the computer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_&_Dragons

and

http://lyberty.com/encyc/articles/d_and_d.html

i knew about the beta versions of D&D ... before Chainmail
:Q

verrrry time consuming

anyway ... i see now that there are two *developed* and well-thought out characters in NWN2 ... add Sand. ... too bad they didn't develop the others as well.

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: apoppin

you can seriously stop the spellcaster [pause] from casting ANY spells at the beginning of the attack so he will only use his bow ... unpause ... move your tank ... one turn ... pause ... move your lead ... unpause ... one round ... pause ... change your bard's instrument ... back to your Spellcaster to unload the Big Spells on the boss ... etc ... etc

There's still no formation movement, and party members will still follow the selected leader when you move them away from the party. Darn annoying. Fortunately, the engine does seem to have the capability to have full party movement, several groups are working on it implementing it in their modules.

 

[apoppin]

formation movement should be easy to add ... one of the easier things to add, i imagine ... but that also heavily uses the computer's AI ... which you seem to want to get away from

and it 'depends' on how far you move the leader from the party ... you can also Broadcast the Command to leave them fighting Enemies in one place while you head off [... pause .. unpause ... back and forth] and they will not follow you --if they are in Puppet Mode.

this game was seriously rushed

is this the Publisher's intention --to have a half-finished beta game *fixed* by their loyal fans ... i know they are saving big bucks this way [MS is famous for this also] and they 'hit' the Holiday Season dead on ...

i guess if you are a true 'fan' of the series - and you are Quite Right - there is *Nothing Else* like NWN very often ... you are willing to put up with 'indignities'

they didn't win me over with this game ... and especially that SecurecRap :|

ANYway, i learned my *lesson* ... never again on Day One .... it's bargain bin, baby ... i 'can wait'

heck, i am gonna look for Vampire: Bloodlines ... maybe it will be fully patched soon ... what's it been ... 3 years?

EDIT: btw, i figured how to live with SecurecRap .... i believe it will be in many games, eventually ... and perhaps even more hidden

For now, i will set up another HD just for suspect games ... then my regular system will be mostly rootkit free and the other one can be populated "safetly" with it so as to not interfere with any other program.

i think that will work ... back to dual-boot

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: apoppin


heck, i am gonna look for Vampire: Bloodlines ... maybe it will be fully patched soon ... what's it been ... 3 years?

Bloodlines was a good game that Activison ruined. Troika was only allowed to complete 1 patch, 6 months before the game was released, Activision fired 3/4 of Troika's staff, etc.

To make matters even worse, Troika was forced to use a beta version of the Source engine and did not get the chance to update it, nor did they ever release a toolset.

The good news is that the community definitely stepped up to the plate with a series of unofficial patches which fixed hundreds of bugs, unlock new dialogue options, corrected misspelled words, etc. Not sure what the latest version is, 3.x-ish, I think.

 

[apoppin]

3.2

12/01/06

http://www.gamebanshee.com/vampirebloodlines/

where do you get it cheap [new]?

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: apoppin
3.2

12/01/06

http://www.gamebanshee.com/vampirebloodlines/

where do you get it cheap [new]?

I bought mine from Direct2Drive, works great, and the unofficial patch works with it (running it right now).

 

[Mem]

Bloodlines was a good game that Activison ruined. Troika was only allowed to complete 1 patch, 6 months before the game was released, Activision fired 3/4 of Troika's staff, etc.

Bloodlines was one of those games in my case where it turned out better then expected,I really enjoyed playing Vampire:Bloodlines,definitely recommended as a good buy.

 

[apoppin]

soon as i find Bloodlines for *cheap*, i will get it ...

and no D2D for me, please ... still on dialup ... i want the disks.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Bloodlines was a good game that Activison ruined. Troika was only allowed to complete 1 patch, 6 months before the game was released, Activision fired 3/4 of Troika's staff, etc.

To make matters even worse, Troika was forced to use a beta version of the Source engine and did not get the chance to update it, nor did they ever release a toolset.

Imagine what this game would have been like if it were allowed to be developed properly. Activision is one of the better publishers sadly

The publishers today are becoming worse and worse with their poor treatment of devs and adding rootkits to games like StarForce, it is a wonder gaming is still around.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Schadenfroh

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Bloodlines was a good game that Activison ruined. Troika was only allowed to complete 1 patch, 6 months before the game was released, Activision fired 3/4 of Troika's staff, etc.

To make matters even worse, Troika was forced to use a beta version of the Source engine and did not get the chance to update it, nor did they ever release a toolset.

Imagine what this game would have been like if it were allowed to be developed properly. Activision is one of the better publishers sadly

The publishers today are becoming worse and worse with their poor treatment of devs and adding rootkits to games like StarForce, it is a wonder gaming is still around.

imagine what NWN2 would be like if it were developed properly
:Q

it would *blow away* KotOR ... the potential was there for a 'game of the decade'.

greed is everyone's loss

 

[apoppin]

Help Please!.....

************SPOILERS AHEAD***************

OK, in part II ... in The Collector's house ... got the key from the Dead Collector ... figured out the combination to the safe [FIRST time i had to remember algebra for a game puzzle ] ... unlocked the Keylock and the combo lock then ... *nothing*

i figure i need a switch under the logs in the fireplace ... BUT can't put out the fire ... there is an Empty Bottle and Vase of Water but i can't get the water from the vase into the bottle

Bugged? or is there a command to 'fill' the bottle

Finally there is an "unstable" book which i got when the bookcase exploded {the ex-girlfriend said something about accessing BOTH the fireplace and the bookshelf to oven the vault.

Stumped


******************************************

Everything else is *too easy* ... as part of the *trial* there was a giant "build up" for a fight with that Huge Barbarian ... and he went down to my Ranger in a few whacks [well, after exploiting their "weakness"].

Plus that trial was BOGUS ... no matter WHAT you did the results were identical [i reloaded it like 3 times just to be sure ... different way go getting to the same place ... a big letdown with the Fight.

 

[Dethfrumbelo]

Originally posted by: apoppin
Help Please!.....

************SPOILERS AHEAD***************

OK, in part II ... in The Collector's house ... got the key from the Dead Collector ... figured out the combination to the safe [FIRST time i had to remember algebra for a game puzzle ] ... unlocked the Keylock and the combo lock then ... *nothing*

i figure i need a switch under the logs in the fireplace ... BUT can't put out the fire ... there is an Empty Bottle and Vase of Water but i can't get the water from the vase into the bottle

Bugged? or is there a command to 'fill' the bottle

Finally there is an "unstable" book which i got when the bookcase exploded {the ex-girlfriend said something about accessing BOTH the fireplace and the bookshelf to oven the vault.

Stumped


******************************************

Everything else is *too easy* ... as part of the *trial* there was a giant "build up" for a fight with that Huge Barbarian ... and he went down to my Ranger in a few whacks [well, after exploiting their "weakness"].

Plus that trial was BOGUS ... no matter WHAT you did the results were identical [i reloaded it like 3 times just to be sure ... different way go getting to the same place ... a big letdown with the Fight.

I think you need to use the empty bottle on the water-filled basin in the kitchen (or just put it inside and then take it out).

 

[Bateluer]

Originally posted by: Dethfrumbelo

Originally posted by: apoppin
Help Please!.....

************SPOILERS AHEAD***************

OK, in part II ... in The Collector's house ... got the key from the Dead Collector ... figured out the combination to the safe [FIRST time i had to remember algebra for a game puzzle ] ... unlocked the Keylock and the combo lock then ... *nothing*

i figure i need a switch under the logs in the fireplace ... BUT can't put out the fire ... there is an Empty Bottle and Vase of Water but i can't get the water from the vase into the bottle

Bugged? or is there a command to 'fill' the bottle

Finally there is an "unstable" book which i got when the bookcase exploded {the ex-girlfriend said something about accessing BOTH the fireplace and the bookshelf to oven the vault.

Stumped


******************************************

Everything else is *too easy* ... as part of the *trial* there was a giant "build up" for a fight with that Huge Barbarian ... and he went down to my Ranger in a few whacks [well, after exploiting their "weakness"].

Plus that trial was BOGUS ... no matter WHAT you did the results were identical [i reloaded it like 3 times just to be sure ... different way go getting to the same place ... a big letdown with the Fight.

I think you need to use the empty bottle on the water-filled basin in the kitchen (or just put it inside and then take it out).

I believe its put it inside and take it out. The exploding book is not a bug, nor does it have anything to do with opening the vault. Its whats called a 'booby' trap.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Bateluer

Originally posted by: Dethfrumbelo

Originally posted by: apoppin
Help Please!.....

************SPOILERS AHEAD***************

OK, in part II ... in The Collector's house ... got the key from the Dead Collector ... figured out the combination to the safe [FIRST time i had to remember algebra for a game puzzle ] ... unlocked the Keylock and the combo lock then ... *nothing*

i figure i need a switch under the logs in the fireplace ... BUT can't put out the fire ... there is an Empty Bottle and Vase of Water but i can't get the water from the vase into the bottle

Bugged? or is there a command to 'fill' the bottle

Finally there is an "unstable" book which i got when the bookcase exploded {the ex-girlfriend said something about accessing BOTH the fireplace and the bookshelf to oven the vault.

Stumped


******************************************

Everything else is *too easy* ... as part of the *trial* there was a giant "build up" for a fight with that Huge Barbarian ... and he went down to my Ranger in a few whacks [well, after exploiting their "weakness"].

Plus that trial was BOGUS ... no matter WHAT you did the results were identical [i reloaded it like 3 times just to be sure ... different way go getting to the same place ... a big letdown with the Fight.

I think you need to use the empty bottle on the water-filled basin in the kitchen (or just put it inside and then take it out).

I believe its put it inside and take it out. The exploding book is not a bug, nor does it have anything to do with opening the vault. Its whats called a 'booby' trap.

that is really obvious

i DID get the empty bottle ... there is no *interaction* with the water basin nor the vase

either *bug* or i don't 'get' the interaction.


the combination was easy

 

[Schadenfroh]

Anyone know of any mods to help make the camera a bit better? It kinda sucks the way it is now, and I have tried all the modes.

 

[apoppin]

yes ... patch v.1.06

you haven't noticed it is a bit buggy still? But it is 20 times better than oob.
:frown:

like when you can't change stuff in your inventory ... when quests are *bugged* like the collector [for example] ... when party members get 'stuck' time after time
... the buggy AI of the Enemy NPCs [ ... wait! ... don't fix it ... i exploit that lack of AI ... :roll:]
:Q

camera ... should be resolved ... by next year ....
... Atari thinks you should be 'patient'

i have two words for Atari

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ !

:thumbsdown:

 

[Schadenfroh]

I would not know how it was before, I bought it after the latest patch was out. I found an AI mod over at NWNVault that helps a good deal with the stupid AI. This game had so much potential, if only they had another 6-months to develop it.