Nvidia viral marketing with AEG exposed !!! *UPDATED* *Poll Added*

[Killrose]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

it is reality.Acknowledgement of a fact is not justification. Cry foul all you like, you may as well beat your head against a wall, it will change nothing. They will continue to use these tactics of propaganda, they will succeed with some, and they will come up with an even more insidious method. The way you are going on about this I am beginning to think you should supplant Raplh Nader For you are the true consumer advocate evidently

They may continue to use these tactics, yes, but nVidia has the last word as to what kind of tactics they use. And that is the key here, With lots of bad PR on this happening on many forums, they may do some revision and maybe be more selective on what type of profile they want for their "member base".

We do not need more flame wars in forums. They may realise they want people who can be informative, friendly, helpfull. ect. to anyone on the verge of a video card purchase which forums are full of. And thats fine with me if they perform duties as out-side salesmen, It is when a thread is started for little more than a heated FUD thrash on the competition, that I have a problem, and that is why we must throw the flags, and this is where we need to draw the line as a community, and force their policies on this.

Beleive me, when they start to loose sales because they are the Mean Guy's, it will happen.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

Originally posted by: apoppin

by the same principle, IF i did decide to do anything personally unethical, it would be none of your business - just as you are saying what nVidia does is none of ours.

Where did I say or suggest it was none of your business? If I implied that I certainly did not intend to, I am pointing out that it is naive to not expect all corporations to use any "dirty tactic" they can think up to get your money. So, I am puzzled why some here are making this into a nV is the debil issue? You have a decided leaning towards ATI yourself, that makes your vociferous denunciation suspect to some, don't you think?

i think i'd be louder in denouncing ATi and just as 'hard' on them - if we find they also do it.

[and i might even think of sending in that 9800xt . . . ]
:Q

[. . . probably not]

if i were really naive . . . i'd believe our government.
:roll:

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: Creig
Hardware company enthusiast = Person who chooses one company over another for personal/performance reason.

Hardware company employee = Person who is given discounted or free hardware as a reward for consistently promoting one company over all others.

employee

em·ploy·ee also em·ploy·e
Pronunciation Key (m-ploi, m-, mploi-)


A person who works for another in return for financial or other compensation.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=employee



By accepting free/discounted hardware, a person is being paid for promoting that company's products. And within these forums, should that person give purchasing advice to others, they would be guilty of breaking the AnandTech Terms of Service regarding paid advertisers.

Well damn, I'm screwed then. ATi. nVIDIA, Intel, AMD. S3, XGI, Matrox, D-Link, LinkSys, Microsoft...all of them I receive hardware from. Guess I should leave, then (and start demanding paychecks, since I'm an 'employee' for receiving hardware from them).

See when seeing a list like that, It makes me want to Damn all of them for never giving me anything for free.

Also Creig, Maybe they are not being given "compensation" for advising other posters, but perhaps they are given hardware for review, and to hopefully have a stronger understandings of the Pros of said company when doing what he normally does on a forum, which is give advice.

Apoppin, Whether or not you think that this type of marketting is unethical, does not mean that a person shows a lack of ethics by not holding the same beilief as you on the ethics of said marketing. This became an issue on the last AEG thread, please leave it out of this one, for me second guessing my ehtics is one of the 2 or three things in the world that bothers me and I consider it a personal attack. Not saying you have crossed that line yet but, just warning in advance since I remember the rampage you went on with the last one.

 

[Ronin]

@apoppin

You're simply extremely cynical, and it's sad. My god, man, do you actually look at what you post, and is this how you act IRL?

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
if it was free then they are not a paid employee

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Furthermore, if they paid for the item, discounted or not, they again are not a paid employee.

As the definition states, "in return for financial or other compensation." A discounted or free item with a monetary value given to an individual in return for services rendered is STILL compensation. Therefore, the person was paid for performing a specific task.

If nVidia/AEG handed out this hardware at random, as in a good-will promotional drawing, then the recipients would not be employees but simply recipients since they did not have to perform any action that would directly benefit nVidia/AEG in order to receive the item.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: Creig
Hardware company enthusiast = Person who chooses one company over another for personal/performance reason.

Hardware company employee = Person who is given discounted or free hardware as a reward for consistently promoting one company over all others.

employee

em·ploy·ee also em·ploy·e
Pronunciation Key (m-ploi, m-, mploi-)


A person who works for another in return for financial or other compensation.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=employee



By accepting free/discounted hardware, a person is being paid for promoting that company's products. And within these forums, should that person give purchasing advice to others, they would be guilty of breaking the AnandTech Terms of Service regarding paid advertisers.

Well damn, I'm screwed then. ATi. nVIDIA, Intel, AMD. S3, XGI, Matrox, D-Link, LinkSys, Microsoft...all of them I receive hardware from. Guess I should leave, then (and start demanding paychecks, since I'm an 'employee' for receiving hardware from them).

See when seeing a list like that, It makes me want to Damn all of them for never giving me anything for free.

Also Creig, Maybe they are not being given "compensation" for advising other posters, but perhaps they are given hardware for review, and to hopefully have a stronger understandings of the Pros of said company when doing what he normally does on a forum, which is give advice.

Apoppin, Whether or not you think that this type of marketting is unethical, does not mean that a person shows a lack of ethics by not holding the same beilief as you on the ethics of said marketing. This became an issue on the last AEG thread, please leave it out of this one, for me second guessing my ehtics is one of the 2 or three things in the world that bothers me and I consider it a personal attack. Not saying you have crossed that line yet but, just warning in advance since I remember the rampage you went on with the last one.

i will call it as i see it . . .
. . . and i really don't care what you "consider" personal or not . . . if you're really 'bothered' take it to F.I.

nVidia's use of Viral marketing is unethical
:thumbsdown:

spin it all you want

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Topweasel
Also Creig, Maybe they are not being given "compensation" for advising other posters, but perhaps they are given hardware for review, and to hopefully have a stronger understandings of the Pros of said company when doing what he normally does on a forum, which is give advice.

If these tactics are really so innocent, why is the AEG forcing the recipients to sign an NDA forbidding them from revealing the fact that they received the free/discounted item?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ronin
@apoppin

You're simply extremely cynical, and it's sad. My god, man, do you actually look at what you post, and is this how you act IRL?

sad to you, perhaps

i don't envy your "real" life and i don't pay much attention to your posts [unless directly addressed]

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Killrose

They may continue to use these tactics, yes, but nVidia has the last word as to what kind of tactics they use. And that is the key here, With lots of bad PR on this happening on many forums, they may do some revision and maybe be more selective on what type of profile they want for their "member base".

We do not need more flame wars in forums. They may realise they want people who can be informative, friendly, helpfull. ect. to anyone on the verge of a video card purchase which forums are full of. And thats fine with me if they perform duties as out-side salesmen, It is when a thread is started for little more than a heated FUD thrash on the competition, that I have a problem, and that is why we must throw the flags, and this is where we need to draw the line as a community, and force their policies on this.

Beleive me, when they start to loose sales because they are the Mean Guy's, it will happen.

I find the logic tenous, please pardon me if that offends you, it isn't my intent. Flame wars need no fanning of the flames from shills, never had, never will. The lack of constructive, productive debate is the fault of everyone who engages in the name calling and invectives. Trolls are trolls, AEG hired or not, and they are a large population in any MB community.

Mean guys will loose sales? I'd need to see data that backs that up. Proctor&Gamble have been accused of being debil worshippers for decades yet they continue to be a very large corp.despite the boycotts. In fact the last year has been good to them Text You can't be much more of a bad guy image than that.

As to the force their policies comment, I'm in if you can gain any headway. Having seen how ineffectual our efforts were on the nv40 PVP fiasco I hold little hope for any progress. nV sales are doing quite well despite all the covering up and revisionist history over that matter. Consumers have short memory and are very much about instant gratification. I just don't think precedence supports the theory that their sales will suffer siginifacntly due to unethical behavior.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
if it was free then they are not a paid employee

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Furthermore, if they paid for the item, discounted or not, they again are not a paid employee.

As the definition states, "in return for financial or other compensation." A discounted or free item with a monetary value given to an individual in return for services rendered is STILL compensation. Therefore, the person was paid for performing a specific task.

If nVidia/AEG handed out this hardware at random, as in a good-will promotional drawing, then the recipients would not be employees but simply recipients since they did not have to perform any action that would directly benefit nVidia/AEG in order to receive the item.

I conceded your point was valid Neither of us are attourneys, so we are just babbling. We would have to know the local, state, and/or federal laws to know how the relationships are defined and what loopholes exist. Unfortunately, matters like this are never as cut&dry as a dictionary definition is

Originally posted by: Creig


If these tactics are really so innocent, why is the AEG forcing the recipients to sign an NDA forbidding them from revealing the fact that they received the free/discounted item?

Propaganda is often less effective if the targets are certain that's what it is.

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Ronin
@apoppin

You're simply extremely cynical, and it's sad. My god, man, do you actually look at what you post, and is this how you act IRL?

sad to you, perhaps

i don't envy your "real" life and i don't pay much attention to your posts [unless directly addressed]

And that means what? It's sad to most. 20k posts of cynicism means you have nothing better to do than to post your drivel here (oh, and emoticon the death out of us).

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Topweasel
Also Creig, Maybe they are not being given "compensation" for advising other posters, but perhaps they are given hardware for review, and to hopefully have a stronger understandings of the Pros of said company when doing what he normally does on a forum, which is give advice.

If these tactics are really so innocent, why is the AEG forcing the recipients to sign an NDA forbidding them from revealing the fact that they received the free/discounted item?

Sorry, For me this is like in F1 the mysterious Rubens contract that forces him to be second to Michael. Untill someone posts the NDA I can't comment on it. If they really have that many people signed up on this you think one person by now would find someway to leak it. Or an Employee that is quiting would put up an example one.

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: Ronin

Originally posted by: Creig
Hardware company enthusiast = Person who chooses one company over another for personal/performance reason.

Hardware company employee = Person who is given discounted or free hardware as a reward for consistently promoting one company over all others.

employee

em·ploy·ee also em·ploy·e
Pronunciation Key (m-ploi, m-, mploi-)


A person who works for another in return for financial or other compensation.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=employee



By accepting free/discounted hardware, a person is being paid for promoting that company's products. And within these forums, should that person give purchasing advice to others, they would be guilty of breaking the AnandTech Terms of Service regarding paid advertisers.

Well damn, I'm screwed then. ATi. nVIDIA, Intel, AMD. S3, XGI, Matrox, D-Link, LinkSys, Microsoft...all of them I receive hardware from. Guess I should leave, then (and start demanding paychecks, since I'm an 'employee' for receiving hardware from them).

See when seeing a list like that, It makes me want to Damn all of them for never giving me anything for free.

Also Creig, Maybe they are not being given "compensation" for advising other posters, but perhaps they are given hardware for review, and to hopefully have a stronger understandings of the Pros of said company when doing what he normally does on a forum, which is give advice.

Apoppin, Whether or not you think that this type of marketting is unethical, does not mean that a person shows a lack of ethics by not holding the same beilief as you on the ethics of said marketing. This became an issue on the last AEG thread, please leave it out of this one, for me second guessing my ehtics is one of the 2 or three things in the world that bothers me and I consider it a personal attack. Not saying you have crossed that line yet but, just warning in advance since I remember the rampage you went on with the last one.

i will call it as i see it . . .
. . . and i really don't care what you "consider" personal or not . . . if you're really 'bothered' take it to F.I.

nVidia's use of Viral marketing is unethical
:thumbsdown:

spin it all you want

I am Not saying that your wrong to find it unethical, I am just asking that you not take stabs at other peoples ehtics just because you disagree with them. If you read carefully I was refering to the Last AEG thread where every post had at least one jab at someones Ethics. You haven't quite got to that point here, and I am just asking as a fellow poster that you avoid doing so again, and just not for me but anybody posting on this thread.

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Topweasel
Also Creig, Maybe they are not being given "compensation" for advising other posters, but perhaps they are given hardware for review, and to hopefully have a stronger understandings of the Pros of said company when doing what he normally does on a forum, which is give advice.

If these tactics are really so innocent, why is the AEG forcing the recipients to sign an NDA forbidding them from revealing the fact that they received the free/discounted item?

Sorry, For me this is like in F1 the mysterious Rubens contract that forces him to be second to Michael. Untill someone posts the NDA I can't comment on it. If they really have that many people signed up on this you think one person by now would find someway to leak it. Or an Employee that is quiting would put up an example one.

You can ask Pete.

 

[rise]

You can ask Pete.

i quoted him a couple pages ago-

I'm not sure why I'm reluctant to post the PMs here--heck, I'm even hesitant to say when I was PMed!--but there's nothing juicy in them beyond what I imagine is the usual focus group enticement: they give you something in exchange for some of your thoughts. I suppose a video card is a little more than a movie screening, and so they probably expect more detailed or simply periodic feedback in return, but that's a far cry from shilling for someone.

thats from the other forum.

i think i'd be louder in denouncing ATi and just as 'hard' on them - if we find they also do it

LMAO. yeah, right. :roll:

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
I conceded your point was valid Neither of us are attourneys, so we are just babbling. We would have to know the local, state, and/or federal laws to know how the relationships are defined and what loopholes exist. Unfortunately, matters like this are never as cut&dry as a dictionary definition is

Oh, very true. I'm not a lawyer and am simply basing my opinion on what I consider to be logical. I'm sure there are uncountable ways of defining the difference between being paid and receiving a "gift".

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Propaganda is often less effective if the targets are certain that's what it is.

I guess that's one of the sore spots of this whole issue. If it was openly disclosed that a certain person giving advice had received free/discounted hardware in return for promoting that company's products, then other forum members would most likely take his advice with a large grain of salt. Therefore, the AEG/nVidia require the NDA to keep it secret.

But unfortunately, this forced secrecy also works against the whole program. Because now people are wary about advice from ANYBODY who consistently recommends nVidia products. It's fairly easy to see that some of these people may be recommending nVidia hardware simply so they can keep receiving their AEG sponsored items and would recommend an nVidia product over one from a competing company even if the competing product would be a better solution for the person looking for advice.

 

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Topweasel

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Topweasel
Also Creig, Maybe they are not being given "compensation" for advising other posters, but perhaps they are given hardware for review, and to hopefully have a stronger understandings of the Pros of said company when doing what he normally does on a forum, which is give advice.

If these tactics are really so innocent, why is the AEG forcing the recipients to sign an NDA forbidding them from revealing the fact that they received the free/discounted item?

Sorry, For me this is like in F1 the mysterious Rubens contract that forces him to be second to Michael. Untill someone posts the NDA I can't comment on it. If they really have that many people signed up on this you think one person by now would find someway to leak it. Or an Employee that is quiting would put up an example one.

You can ask Pete.

It looks Like Pete didn't have much to say.

 

[Killrose]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

I find the logic tenous, please pardon me if that offends you, it isn't my intent. Flame wars need no fanning of the flames from shills, never had, never will. The lack of constructive, productive debate is the fault of everyone who engages in the name calling and invectives. Trolls are trolls, AEG hired or not, and they are a large population in any MB community.

Mean guys will loose sales? I'd need to see data that backs that up. Proctor&Gamble have been accused of being debil worshippers for decades yet they continue to be a very large corp.despite the boycotts. In fact the last year has been good to them Text You can't be much more of a bad guy image than that.

As to the force their policies comment, I'm in if you can gain any headway. Having seen how ineffectual our efforts were on the nv40 PVP fiasco I hold little hope for any progress. nV sales are doing quite well despite all the covering up and revisionist history over that matter. Consumers have short memory and are very much about instant gratification. I just don't think precedence supports the theory that their sales will suffer siginifacntly due to unethical behavior.[/quote]

Not sure what you ment by the term tenous or its meaning, you say no offence, so i'll take it that way

Maybe we will have little affect on this whole matter, true, but we could very well have an affect the next time nVidia decides to resign the contract with AEG.

 

[Keysplayr]

Is it ethical? I don't believe it is, no.
Is it common amoung corporations? You betcha.
Are they concerned with being ethical? As long as no laws are broken, they could care less as long as the bottom line at the end of the quarter goes up.
The sole purpose of any publicly traded company is to increase their worth, make stock go up. I see an incredible amount of assuming in this thread as I saw in the last AEG thread. Truth is, we just don't know what is going on and I think that is where a lot of the frustration comes from in here.

ATI,Nvidia,Intel,AMD etc. etc. use the same viral tactics. Anyone who says differently is just naive. They may not all use AEG (to our knowledge) but it could be another company or done in house. There is no doubt here.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: GOREGRINDER
so what?,.. are you guys so insecure about your own mentality that you think things of this nature may "sway" you into throwing down money for something you didnt even want in the first place?,.. well,... if thats the case,.. unplug your internet,.. disconnect your tv ,burn your radios and stab out your eyes when you leave the house :roll:

it is unethical[period]

and nVidia's viral marketing crap has affected this board.

and yes, rise4310, we DO know what nVidia does.

business is unethical.....its how you get ahead of your competitors. its not like sport where its (hopefuly) natural talent vs natural talent....in business if you see the opertunity to make more money you bloody well take it, ethical or not.

that is just . . . so wrong
:thumbsdown:

and Sport IS Big Business

sport sure is, but what i meant was the athletes hopefully havent cheated. most dont...which is good.

in an ideal world apoppin, companies wouldnt do this, they'd play fair. as it happens the world is far from ideal, and theres plenty of people out there willing to make a quick buck at the expense of others

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: RobertR1
Programs such as this are a cancer to the online community. No "if" "and" or "but" about it.

AGREE 100%

Fern

 

[n7]

More goodies on AEG & our beloved nVidia
Even CNet is reporting this now.
http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/evi...s-to-promote-their-products-152874.php
http://www.consumerist.com/consumer/evil/nvidias-derek-perez-responds-153011.php
http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6432079.html?tag=nl.e404

 

[crazydingo]

Now also on Xbit, Xbitlabs says Nvidia fanboys are far more worse and rabid than ATI fanboys.

More coverage = more awareness.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: crazydingo
Now also on Xbit, Xbitlabs says Nvidia fanboys are far more worse and rabid than ATI fanboys.

More coverage = more awareness.

That's not what they said...

Those who admire products by Advanced Micro Devices and Nvidia Corp. are a way more aggressive in the forums and against the journalists compared to those who prefer products by ATI Technologies and Intel Corp. This is an observation that has been made in several years. We do not know why this theory works, but we do believe that the people do not receive salaries from the aforementioned companies.

If only they could see how much "worse" the "rabid" ATI fanboys are on this forum. :roll:

 

[crazydingo]

Originally posted by: Wreckage

Originally posted by: crazydingo
Now also on Xbit, Xbitlabs says Nvidia fanboys are far more worse and rabid than ATI fanboys.

More coverage = more awareness.

That's not what they said...

Those who admire products by Advanced Micro Devices and Nvidia Corp. are a way more aggressive in the forums and against the journalists compared to those who prefer products by ATI Technologies and Intel Corp. This is an observation that has been made in several years. We do not know why this theory works, but we do believe that the people do not receive salaries from the aforementioned companies.

If only they could see how much "worse" the "rabid" ATI fanboys are on this forum. :roll:

aww, that wasnt directed at you.

Way more aggressive = more rabid = worse.

Just reading about those two examples makes me feel sorry for the journos and reviewers.