Nvidia ,Rtx2080ti,2080,2070, information thread. Reviews and prices September 14.

[VirtualLarry]

If AMD can produce significantly lower prices with even moderately comparable benchmarks, something that should be pretty easy for them to do with the prices Nvidia is posting, they will clean up in the pre-built market. Ray-Tracing is a neat technology, but my guess is that it is at least a generation or two off from being actually usable, and that for this generation it is just a curiosity even for most of the enthusiasts.

Point taken.

Longer-term, though, once NV gets a few generations of RTX GPUs under their belt, unless AMD has some of this technology in their pipeline, though, they might fall behind. I'm just guessing, but JHH said that this was in development for ten years.

 

[railven]

I come from a time when some new cool new technology was coming out we'd go to tech forums to discuss it. Not run around waving flags screaming for our company of choice. This is the biggest new technology in this space in decades, and people seem to be utterly dismissive of it. If I can get a couple people thinking along the right lines than it is worth my time.

Gone are what I feel were the heavy tech discussions on ATF. This thread is utter trash. Welps back to my hiatus.

 

[swilli89]

A lot of rhetoric and hyperbole getting thrown around, and some even trying to make it about green vs red for some reason. I myself could probably fall into arguing about how I think its very misleading to state prices that are literally not even offered on NVIDIA's own website. Can't really hide behind retailer gouging when they are selling them directly, can they? However, let's move beyond the gouging price for now.

Back to the most important question:

Why would NVIDIA do a full presentation, have cards ready to be released, offer LIVE pre-orders, talk up "ray-tracing" performance then offer no actual game benchmarks?

They hosted a giant event, hauled all those people to Germany to basically show pictures of the cards and release pricing?

Remember the 1080 launch?

Let's face it, NVIDIA's CEO loves to brag. Any time he can, he will and he does! So again why host a massive event just to show literally zero gaming performance?

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Let's face it, NVIDIA's CEO loves to brag. Any time he can, he will and he does! So again why host a massive event just to show literally zero gaming performance?

Agreed. This reminds me when we were getting close to VEGA's launch and we were getting nothing tantalizing prior to launch. And as you said, JHH is even more of a bragger, by far. The fact that they have nothing to show at the even is a bit discouraging. Doesn't feel like there's anything aside from Ray Tracing bringing that jump. Which is cool and all, but as a 1080Ti holder I'll wait for 7nm to bring the ray tracing *and* the performance jump. I'm certainly not spending that sort of money just to keep performance parity with some new lightning effects that will barely be seen in the wild.

Exciting tech, but I'll let others eat that depreciation.

 

[ozzy702]

A lot of rhetoric and hyperbole getting thrown around, and some even trying to make it about green vs red for some reason. I myself could probably fall into arguing about how I think its very misleading to state prices that are literally not even offered on NVIDIA's own website. Can't really hide behind retailer gouging when they are selling them directly, can they? However, let's move beyond the gouging price for now.

Back to the most important question:

Why would NVIDIA do a full presentation, have cards ready to be released, offer LIVE pre-orders, talk up "ray-tracing" performance then offer no actual game benchmarks?

They hosted a giant event, hauled all those people to Germany to basically show pictures of the cards and release pricing?

Remember the 1080 launch?

Let's face it, NVIDIA's CEO loves to brag. Any time he can, he will and he does! So again why host a massive event just to show literally zero gaming performance?

Because outside of RT, these new cards offer no price/performance and performance/watt improvements whatsoever.

 

[24601]

Because outside of RT, these new cards offer no price/performance and performance/watt improvements whatsoever.

Tell me more about how you have pioneered the revolutionary technique of dividing by unknown.

 

[LTC8K6]

Tell me more about how you have pioneered the revolutionary technique of dividing by unknown.

I think it's becoming obvious that the performance outside of RT has not improved much.
Perhaps 5-10% due to the slight improvements in the SM and better memory.

I'd be surprised if performance outside of ray tracing has improved more than 15%.

The 2070 does have a massive memory improvement over the 1070.

 

[24601]

I give up on this thread, i'll be back in a month i guess.

ITT: people completely unwilling to discuss things that are known, but love talking about things that they demonstrably do not know.

 

[LTC8K6]

I give up on this thread, i'll be back in a month i guess.

ITT: people completely unwilling to discuss things that are known, but love talking about things that they demonstrably do not know.

2080ti 4352:272:88 vs 1080ti 3584:224:88

 

[swilli89]

I think it's becoming obvious that the performance outside of RT has not improved much.
Perhaps 5-10% due to the slight improvements in the SM and better memory.

I'd be surprised if performance outside of ray tracing has improved more than 15%.

The 2070 does have a massive memory improvement over the 1070.

I've been assuming that since Maxwell when NVIDIA started doing its new memory compression thing that its cards aren't as bandwidth hungry as comparable AMD cards. The 2070 might end up being a good bit faster but at its current price its like $50100 shy of a 1080 Ti... It will most likely regress FPS/$ which is insane to think about considering two and a half year old cards..

Because outside of RT, these new cards offer no price/performance and performance/watt improvements whatsoever.

What I don't get is, why not just offer lower prices and really push volume + value for its core gaming audience? Even if they couldn't manage tangible efficiency gains due to an already efficient Pascal arch + basically the same node (see marginal Ryzen 2000 gains from 12nm.. ie basically nothing), then why not come in swinging with a 2070 that brings 1080 performance down to the $300 level?

12nm is very, very cheap for AMD/NVIDIA. Its basically a mature 16nm so you can be sure, especially given Samsung's increased competition for wafer design wins, that TSMC has lowered wafer costs versus when 16FF was bleeding edge tech.

People trying to get defensive about ray tracing tech.. look its cool! It's fine I mean... no one really cares about it either way. The core problem here is seemingly jacked prices akin to peak-crypto fever levels and zero performance benchmarks. Its 100% NVIDIA's fault that people assume the worst even if that isn't the case. What else could they have expected?

 

[sze5003]

I give up on this thread, i'll be back in a month i guess.

ITT: people completely unwilling to discuss things that are known, but love talking about things that they demonstrably do not know.

People are going off the fact that jehnsen didn't show any data like they had previous releases and the fact that he talked about gigarays for like an hour. Then he proceeded to show us "oh here's how the rtx family stacks up in performance" but what do you have at the axis of that graph?

Measuring rtx operations and comparing rtx operation to 1080,1080ti, and 2080ti. Of course the 2080ti is going to be loads better at rtx.

I'm all for better looking graphics and shadows, lights, a better experience. It's exciting, but you need to convince your audience with data proof that it's worth it to spend this much for a card that can do these beautiful things but at the same time it should kick butt against the 10x generation. This presentation didn't show that, and was more along the lines of you need this tech, it looks good, look how good, it's the future. Like he was selling me some software not a gpu.

 

[LTC8K6]

I'm no video card salesman, but to me, the best way to sell these cards would have been to show them spanking Pascal cards in traditional gaming, then show the ray great tracing possibilities.

If I had seen a 2070 keeping up with a 1080 in traditional gaming, I'd have wanted a 2070 really bad.

Being able to do RT would have been a cherry on top.

 

[ginfest]

And you will be waiting a while. I can get a 1080TI FTW3 DT for $649 right now. Why would I send that much on a 1080 ?

That's good Mark. Even though this is not the right forum, I believe it's also against the rules to denigrate someone's asking price?
Appreciate the thought.

 

[Qwertilot]

They wanted to drill home the ray tracing message. Not just their most compelling thing but very new so definitely needing pushing.

 

[swilli89]

I'm no video card salesman, but to me, the best way to sell these cards would have been to show them spanking Pascal cards in traditional gaming, then show the ray great tracing possibilities.

If I had seen a 2070 keeping up with a 1080 in traditional gaming, I'd have wanted a 2070 really bad.

Being able to do RT would have been a cherry on top.

Exactly on the bolded point.

However, a 1080 can be had for $450 and the 2070 is only for sale for $599 right now. Where is the value proposition in that? A 2070 would need to be $399 to make sense if it kept up with a 1080.

 

[arandomguy]

I'm no video card salesman, but to me, the best way to sell these cards would have been to show them spanking Pascal cards in traditional gaming, then show the ray great tracing possibilities.

If I had seen a 2070 keeping up with a 1080 in traditional gaming, I'd have wanted a 2070 really bad.

Being able to do RT would have been a cherry on top.

I'm pretty sure if they showed the 2070 only keeping up with the 1080 in non RTX that would have been poorly received too say the least.

 

[Tweak155]

That's good Mark. Even though this is not the right forum, I believe it's also against the rules to denigrate someone's asking price?
Appreciate the thought.

That's the rule for the FS / FT forum, I think here it's fair game, although off-topic.

 

[tamz_msc]

A liar flaunting strawmans. Too bad, was hoping for a decent discussion. Telling other people what they've done in their life when you don't know them- pretty ignorant.

As opposed to using the marker floating over the players head, enemy soldiers use that in real life all the time.......

I've never heard a competitive FPS player say that slightly longer shadows resulting from higher visual quality made the difference between surviving and dying in a split-second. Player markers have been a feature of Battlefield ever since it got more casualized, so yep, I was absolutely right in assuming that you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[LTC8K6]

I'm pretty sure if they showed the 2070 only keeping up with the 1080 in non RTX that would have been poorly received too say the least.

I'd have received it well.

Turing has GPU Boost 4.0 versus Pascal's GPU Boost 3.0.
Not other info yet, though.

 

[ginfest]

That's the rule for the FS / FT forum, I think here it's fair game, although off-topic.

For the record, all I did was in passing like in any conversation, "... oh I bought a new xxxxx and btw my old xxxx is for sale if anyone wants it..." type of thing.
I think if people looked at it like a regular conversation, that makes sense.
Sorry for the disruption folks.

 

[sze5003]

I'm pretty sure if they showed the 2070 only keeping up with the 1080 in non RTX that would have been poorly received too say the least.

I don't think so because then they would need to also show comparisons between 2080, 2080ti, vs 2070ti and not just 2070, performance across the board. Why didn't they show it?

They could have easily showed us that info and then the performance with rtx turned on in comparison. That's how you sell something to techy people. This isn't bed bath and beyond we are talking about.

 

[LTC8K6]

Turing’s innovations fuse real-time ray tracing, all-new AI capabilities and advanced shaders in an approach called hybrid graphics to achieve the greatest generational performance leap ever. Turing is 6x Pascal performance for ray-traced graphics. For existing games, Turing will deliver 2x the performance and 4K HDR gaming at 60 FPS on even the most demanding titles.

https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2018/08/20/geforce-rtx-real-time-ray-tracing/

 

[SteveGrabowski]

Exactly on the bolded point.

However, a 1080 can be had for $450 and the 2070 is only for sale for $599 right now. Where is the value proposition in that? A 2070 would need to be $399 to make sense if it kept up with a 1080.

I wouldn't consider that much value considering the 1070 was $450 and on par with the 980 Ti.

 

[LTC8K6]

So I have to wonder why we did not see a demo of "2x the performance and 4K HDR gaming at 60 FPS on even the most demanding titles"?

 

[moonbogg]

Based on the links and early impressions (Including both Tomb Raider and BFV performance being under 60FPS @ 1080p) it's becoming clear to me why Nvidia focused on Ray Tracing exclusively without providing any FPS numbers. My take is that Ray Tracing is very expensive (no pun intended) and he wanted to sell his cards.

He hyped them up as high as he could, put his best foot forward, sold people on the strong points of the cards and then opened the pre order flood gates. If he had shown ANY game running between 40-70FPS at 1080P with ray tracing enabled, I swear to God that would have resulted in almost no cards being sold and it would have also really ruined his fancy event. Agree?

You don't invite people over to your house for a party you are throwing and then make sure to announce to everyone that your kid accidentally sneezed in the punch bowl right before everyone showed up. You ignore it and move on baby.