Nvidia ,Rtx2080ti,2080,2070, information thread. Reviews and prices September 14.

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maddogmcgee

Senior member
Apr 20, 2015
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This thread is a great example of how terrible these forums have become.

We finally get real time global illumination in gaming with the hardware to push it- something we have been begging for since the dawn of real time 3D, it's finally here- and people are dropping into their hive mind fanboy idiocy to champion/vilify their respective party. Pathetic.

First off- everyone bashing the expected performance- please make sure you go on record right now stating how much slower the 2070 is going to be compared to the Vega 56- or even the Vega 64 if we want to use the inflated FE pricing. Please make sure to state for the record, clearly, how these cards are vastly inferior in terms of price versus performance compared to the competition.

You are the first person I have read try and make this a green vs red thing. All i have seen is disappointment at the ridiculous prices and a want for someone (AMD, Intel, some other company we have not heard of) to challenge these silly prices. The point is not that AMD cards are amazing, it is that NEITHER company provides a viable choice for most consumers.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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So the 2070 has more cores than the 1070, but less cores than the 1070ti, but the 2070 has a giant memory bw advantage over both.
But you lose SLI/NVlink on the 2070, if you wanted that.
 

Jackie60

Member
Aug 11, 2006
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I am pleased Nvidia are trying to improve image quality and Ray tracing clearly will one day be quite good at doing that. However the images I've seen make water appear like Mercury all over the screen. Yes water is reflective, no water is not quicksilver and I actually prefer realism rather than the super saturated hyper reflective adolescent world developers are creating. I'm also not paying £1300-£1500 for an Nvidia clown card that seems designed merely to laugh at the stupidity of it's owners. I already have 1080ti SLI and that's enough GPU for anything I play at 4K. Unless they literally double 1080ti SLI performance AND throw in ray tracing fantasy reality cores as well then I'm waiting for Intel or AMD's next offering. I can't spend money encouraging this level of abusing customers from Nvidia same way as my next CPU is going to be AMD 7nm to give Intel a kick up the backside. Great to see new cards Nvidia, now you know where you can stick em!
 

Jackie60

Member
Aug 11, 2006
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46
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Man they know they have 1070 class users that will not shell out $600 to upgrade, no way no how period. Same with 1080 Ti users and $1,200.

I'm just more convinced now that 2019 7nm will have cheaper cards and this is a cash grab.
Yeah I totally agree regarding 2019 and 7nm, why else would they launch the Ti early (compared to the usual cycle) and at an astronomical price unless they know that they or someone else has something either better or equivalent but much cheaper at 7nm coming in 2019.
 

Brahmzy

Senior member
Jul 27, 2004
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There’s an awful lot of talk of 7nm in 2019. I see next to no proof of that however. I can’t wait any longer - have to pull the trigger on a 2080 Ti.
4K with new games coming out...
 

elhefegaming

Member
Aug 23, 2017
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The main problem for this raytracing is that until it gets to the mainstream gpus is not going to be widely used, maybe a few games here and there... just like AMD when they did pay devs to use Mantle in like 3 titles...

This is a good thing BUT not for this generation, once it gets to mainstream it will be a must have. Probably on the gen after this one.

Yep. This is a good technology advancement, but it's gonna matter in the next generation, or oven the one after that
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
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Was the trailer they showed of tomb raider a cinematic or actual gameplay? I'm thinking actual gameplay will show less fps with rtx on vs a cutscene.

We don't have anything to compare it to, I agree but it looks like a taxing feature in it's early stages. It's also possible the drivers are not fully optimized.

I'm curious to see more tests in the coming days. I just don't think it's a feature that will be mainstream all of a sudden. Get the consoles on board with it in the next gen of consoles and then it will be a mainstream technology that they will work on to improve.
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
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Yup, I'm right in assuming that you've never played a competitive FPS.

A liar flaunting strawmans. Too bad, was hoping for a decent discussion. Telling other people what they've done in their life when you don't know them- pretty ignorant.

Absolutely not. Not only is it crazy to say that someone's shadow is more noticeable as they run down a hill than, you know, a person running down a hill, but the light source is casting a shadow in the opposite direction than what would be required for the opponent to "see him coming".

When he lands the shadows are being cast in front of him. He didn't inspect where the sun was positioned, but based on that- in every single one of the shots I mentioned, the light source is behind him. Further, have you never played paintball with hills? Yeah, seeing someone's shadow crest a hill is actually extremely noticeable- if they jumped with that angle of light down the hill surrounded by snow their shadow would be like a beacon.

I'd love to hear the story of a soldier taking down an enemy combatant that starts, "So first, I pinpointed his position through the reflection of the door of the car parked on the corner."

As opposed to using the marker floating over the players head, enemy soldiers use that in real life all the time.......

This is a hybrid approach with a "cut down" version of ray tracing because even with the dedicated hardware, there's still not enough compute power to do proper RT.

You could make the argument until we get radiosity why bother, this is a monster step though. Actual real time global illumination.

If Nvidia priced these cards the same as the 10xx line or maybe a tiny bit more expensive, then I think almost everyone would be excited about the potential.

How much faster is Vega going to be than the 2070?

Let's look at it from an ever so slightly different angle if people don't like that. Threadripper 2950x is $899 and smaller than the 2070, the 2990wx is slightly bigger than the 2080Ti for $1800- and neither one of those come with their own PCB and 8/11GB of GDDR6 RAM, so what's the deal with that?

We know for a fact thanks to SEC filings that nVidia spent more on R&D then AMD did, they are offering roughly comparable die sizes with a healthy amount of very high tech RAM and a PCB for quite a bit less than what AMD is offering.

1200 bucks for slightly better shadows and reflections?

$500 for real time global illumination is another way to say it. Biggest breakthrough we have had in real time 3D since the Voodoo 1. Wait until you try it out man, trust me you are going to love it and won't want to play without it.

Just like with intel before Ryzen, nvidia has gotten lazy and decided to offer less of an increase and charge more because they are the only high-end game in town.

Not to pick on you Dave, but this sentence is the epitome of the stupidity in this thread.

Seriously, ooooh, 21.264% more of the *EXACT SAME THING* vs fundamental game changing new tech, and everyone is pissed they didn't get more of the same. It's really frustrating for people who actually like to see advancement.
 
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crisium

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2001
2,643
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Well yeah, we want improved price-to-performance in games that actually exist. Not a degradation. New gens are supposed to improve price-to-performance (even if overall price sometimes increases). If the 2080 Ti is over 71% faster than the 1080 Ti then we will get that, but although they discussed new SM's most of us are rightly not expecting 71%+ from 21% more shaders.

If we apply the price increase multiplier that the 2080 Ti got over the 1080 Ti for each flagship from the 8800 Ultra onwards (285, 580, 780 Ti, 980 Ti, 1080 Ti) then the 2080 Ti should cost $21,000.

It's good that ray tracing tech is here, but this is Gen 1. Fermi can play DX12 games. You want to look up the benchmarks for a GTX 580 in DX12? It's not pretty. It's very possible the RTX 2080 Ti will be too weak when ray tracing becomes mainstream and the template from which games are actually built from the game up. I'd say it is all but certain the 2070 will be a joke in these games.

We're getting a 71% price increase, and looking at (baring an SM revolution) in the neighborhood of 15-25% more performance in games that actually exist, and new graphics tech that will be a stapled add on with a huge performance hit. It is disappointing unless you are price inelastic, period.
 
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Tweak155

Lifer
Sep 23, 2003
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Not to pick on you Dave, but this sentence is the epitome of the stupidity in this thread.

Seriously, ooooh, 21.264% more of the *EXACT SAME THING* vs fundamental game changing new tech, and everyone is pissed they didn't get more of the same. It's really frustrating for people who actually like to see advancement.

Why are you coming here now that you know this whining / stupidity is what you will find (according to you)? I'd argue you're even worse than the people you're whining about.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
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Because other games we've had for years with Ray tracing lighting/shadows show otherwise? There's nothing to compare to at all so what basis is there to say something is wrong?
You think there are no optimization issues?
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
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Actually glad they're releasing the Ti with the regular model as that always irked me that a better GPU was released just weeks after a new base. It's a great tactic to rake in earnings since people buy everything anyway but it's pretty scummy of them. Almost like NVIDIA rushed out this 'revolutionary' arch ahead of schedule (since Jensen did state not that long ago that we were going to wait awhile before the next GeForce) because 7nm is on deck and they're already planning better gear.

Honestly though, there isn't much to be found to back that up; mostly just rumors and useless speculation.
 

Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
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Well yeah, we want improved price-to-performance in games that actually exist. Not a degradation. New gens are supposed to improve price-to-performance (even if overall price sometimes increases). If the 2080 Ti is over 71% faster than the 1080 Ti then we will get that.

No, look, this 2080ti is a Titan. It isn't called that because Titan is compute only now.

It is definitely priced that way!

The comparison is with the Pascal launch line up. Still prices up, not that magnitude.
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
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Yeah, this is just a stopgap with the same architecture and GDDR6 added on, bigger die to increase the cores and add the ray tracing cores. Its essentially a one off, naming scheme for 7nm graphic cards are still GTX. What Nvidia is delivering here is a stopgap to 7nm. AMD has advantage and priority on 7nm, so Nvidia are essentially reshashing their old products, adding a specified RTX core for ray tracing and calling it new.

Nvidia know AMD will be first to market with 7nm, so rather than react to them and release second, they are releasing new GPU's now to maximize profits to cover for the slight downtime on going second for 7nm.

This is just more completely off base nonsense.

Same Architecture? All new SM, all new RT cores and Tensor cores for the first time in consumer cores. As someone else stated, this is the biggest change in GPUs since the first 3DFX cards introduced 3D.
 
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PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
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Look, I'm excited for RT and have been looking forward to it for many years. However, this isn't the RT I have been looking forward to, but it is a nice first step. This is a hybrid approach with a "cut down" version of ray tracing because even with the dedicated hardware, there's still not enough compute power to do proper RT.

"Proper RT" is a meaningless term. If you think the proper way to do this is to blast 100's to 1000's of rays at every pixel like it was traditionally done when you take a day to render one frame, that is never going to happen in real time for gaming. That isn't proper, it's just a dumb brute force, inefficient waste of resources.

What is being done here is much more efficient and intelligent use of resources, to cut down the rays by an order (or more) of magnitude, and it will never revert to the old dumb brute force method.
 

Malogeek

Golden Member
Mar 5, 2017
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yaktribe.org
You think there are no optimization issues?
I assume there are but I also assume optimization gives maybe 10%. Note that RT lighting is just "on" with the drivers and hardware doing the grunt of the work, the latter probably 90% of it. It's going to be down to how it is implemented in each game I think.

I'm really looking forward to finally having this type of lighting/reflections/shadows implemented in a hybrid renderer. It's an amazing step for gaming and a bold leap for Nvidia IMO. I'm personally looking to upgrade my 970 finally but I want something that can give me maxed settings in games at a steady 60fps but the highest end is out of reach for me.

I also worry about reviews. Are reviewers going to have access to any games with RT implemented? All this is behind closed doors, non-shipping implementations for demo purposes.
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
4,740
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$500 for real time global illumination is another way to say it. Biggest breakthrough we have had in real time 3D since the Voodoo 1. Wait until you try it out man, trust me you are going to love it and won't want to play without it.
You appear to have extensive experience with RT with that "trust me" remark. Please expand with some examples in various games, but try to keep the cost justification out.

We are the ones who decide if the prices are reasonable, not you, and the only people who would like a higher price are the ones getting the money from us.
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
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Well yeah, we want improved price-to-performance in games that actually exist. Not a degradation.

Try this- read the names as TitanT(2080Ti), 2080Ti(2080) and 2080(2070) and you end up in a very different place. Now I'm not saying that a big performance boost is going to happen, but the pricing issue is one of marketing perception more than anything.

I'd say it is all but certain the 2070 will be a joke in these games.

It's possible the 2070 would be faster with RT on than with it off(very situational). Currently we are running hundreds/thousands of different shader scripts to emulate lighting. Ray tracing is considerably more complex then all of those combined, however there is a significant portion of the die *sitting idle* while we are using the current method. By moving over to RT you use the dedicated hardware while freeing up some resources for other shading techniques. Now clearly that is going to be very situational and depend on how many different shader scripts are running etc(literally thousands if not millions of variables) and could change on a frame by frame basis but it is a real possibility. This isn't just a new feature, it is a fundamentally different way of doing things altogether.

Why are you coming here now that you know this whining / stupidity is what you will find (according to you)?

I come from a time when some new cool new technology was coming out we'd go to tech forums to discuss it. Not run around waving flags screaming for our company of choice. This is the biggest new technology in this space in decades, and people seem to be utterly dismissive of it. If I can get a couple people thinking along the right lines than it is worth my time.

You appear to have extensive experience with RT with that "trust me" remark.

That was for BFG, we go way back. I was using ray tracing before the Voodoo 1 hit, regularly- days per frame.

We are the ones who decide if the prices are reasonable, not you, and the only people who would like a higher price are the ones getting the money from us.

Neither you nor I decide, the market does, but that isn't my point. I was directly addressing BFG in that post, him and I have written novels worth discussing IQ issues over the years.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
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I think it will probably run very well when it's finalized.

I think the penalty will not be near as big as people think.
 
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