Nvidia: Not Enough Money in a PS4 GPU for us to bother

[ICDP]

This is why i stay away from console gaming, i prefer PC.

Same here, but that isn't the premise for the debate.

 

[Fx1]

You didn't correct anything...you made the same fallacy...sorry.

So Intel is allowed to reject low margin areas...NVIDIA isn't ...gotcha.

Intel will never produce console CPU again because consoles need savings from die shrinks. Intel keeps all its die shrink savings and that means consoles would stay expensive.

Nvidia doesnt have a CPU worth crap so its basically out of the running for a APU.

So this leaves AMD with an x86 CPU and GCN GPU at an affordable price.

Fact is that it was only really AMD that could have won this fight given that game devs wanted x86 to simplify development.

AMD had a nearly off the shelf solution ready to go and they really needed the business.

It doesnt matter if Nvidia wanted the business or not. i cant see how they could have won it given that they really arent geared up for SOC production like AMD are with their x86 APU's

 

[The Alias]

You didn't correct anything...you made the same fallacy...sorry.

So Intel is allowed to reject low margin areas...NVIDIA isn't ...gotcha.

Intel's past record shows it consistently rejecting low margins nVidia's doesn't . you're seriously putting words in other people's mouths

 

[wand3r3r]

Boy lots of butthurt nvidiots feeling pretty rejected by this loss.

Once again, Nvidia lost AMD won. Whoopty doopty. The sky is still blue.

It doesn't mean you need to to try pretend like it's an insignificant event.

 

[Lonbjerg]

So people still insist on treating the console-space and the mobile-space as the same...and yet think I am the problem...oh AMD fanboys...funny.

 

[notty22]

In fact, both Nvidia and Intel are investing a buttload of money in their low margin mobile devices. As said before, rejecting consoles cuz of low margins doesn't even compute when Nvidia lost $157 millions in 2012, $60 m in 2011 and $49 m in 2010 in its Tegra division.

Then there is the shape of PC market, Haswell launching in 2H this year or the world economy going down the drain.

I wouldn't say "no" to anything at the moment.

Where is the links for your data?

The Chip in Your Phone Could be a Good Investment: NVIDIA CorporationThe company reported revenue of $1.11 billion, 16% higher than prior-year quarter's $953.2 million. GAAP earnings were $0.28 per share for Q4, 56% higher than the prior-year quarter's $0.18 per share. Adjusted profit was $0.35 a share. The growth was on account of higher Tegra sales and its growing GPU business.
NVIDIA Corporation (NASDAQ:NVDA) claims that its ‘graphics processing unit’ market share has increased from 53% to 65%, and its notebooks market share has improved from 47% to 66%,compared to last year. NVIDIA’s new Kepler GPU architecture is the first design that comprises virtualization technology built right into the GPU. The introduction of the new design has helped in elevating market share and margins.
NVIDIA Corporation (NASDAQ:NVDA)’s Tegra processor’s sales increased 29% in fiscal 2013. Tegra 3 quad-core processors drive the world's most popular devices, such as Google Inc (NASDAQ:GOOG)'s Nexus 7, Microsoft's Windows RT Surface tablet, Lenovo's IdeaPad Yoga 11, and many more.
Moreover, NVIDIA Corporation (NASDAQ:NVDA) introduced the Tegra 4 processor, which is supposedly much better than its predecessor, Tegra 3. Tegra 4 is up to six times faster than Tegra 3, and is also LTE compatible. Currently, only QUALCOMM, Inc. (NASDAQ:QCOM) offers LTE-compatible chipsets, but NVIDIA, too, should penetrate the market once its Tegra 4 processor debuts.

​

Can NVIDIA Corporation (NVDA)'s Tegra Top QUALCOMM, Inc.

 

[Imouto]

Where is the links for your data?

The link Intel17 provided:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix...wJlNRREVTQz1TRUNUSU9OX0VOVElSRSZzdWJzaWQ9NTc=

ctrl+f: Note 17 - Segment Information

Seems a bit off that you don't know this about your beloved Nvidia.

 

[sontin]

In fact, both Nvidia and Intel are investing a buttload of money in their low margin mobile devices. As said before, rejecting consoles cuz of low margins doesn't even compute when Nvidia lost $157 millions in 2012, $60 m in 2011 and $49 m in 2010 in its Tegra division.

Then there is the shape of PC market, Haswell launching in 2H this year or the world economy going down the drain.

I wouldn't say "no" to anything at the moment.

50% margin for Tegra.
39% has AMD as the whole company.

Revenue of Tegra for Smartphones and Tablets was $540 millions in FY-2013.

The only reason why AMD is making money from the start is because they don't need to develop new chips in the next 4 years. But in the end nVidia has a much bigger opportunity than AMD with the consoles.

 

[ICDP]

Where is the links for your data?

The pertinent point is that they are stating groth was due to higher Tegra sales AND its growing GPU business. When taken seperately Tegra is a currently losing Nvidia money. Though in the long run the design wins will start making them money and gain them mobile-space marketshare. So Nvida are looking long term as far as Tegra is concerned.

From the text you quoted
"The growth was on account of higher Tegra sales and its growing GPU business.”

 

[notty22]

The pertinent point is that they are stating groth was due to higher Tegra sales AND its growing GPU business. When taken seperately Tegra is a currently losing Nvidia money. Though in the long run the design wins will start making them money and gain them mobile-space marketshare. So Nvida are looking long term as far as Tegra is concerned.

From the text you quoted
"The growth was on account of higher Tegra sales and its growing GPU business."

It's called cherry picking financial reports. Read the contents of the report.
Tegra is going to continue to generate large amounts of revenue. With everything done on Tegra 4 but the launch, it takes money to make money.
Or layoff personnel. AMD knows about this aspect. read the news.

http://hexus.net/business/news/components/51717-nvidia-q4-revenue-16-per-cent-year-ago/

 

[Imouto]

But you know that revenue ain't the same as operating income, right? You could make trillions in revenue and still lose money when it comes to operating income.

Oh, right. You only read PR reports.

 

[blackened23]

You gotta be kidding me. Revenue? Notty? Really?

I hate it to break it to the armchair financial analysts who don't know what they're talking about, but revenue does not represent profits. It does not take expenses, opportunity costs, etc into account. You can literally have sky high revenue and still come out with a net loss. Perhaps you should study up on that.

I just checked their financial information and the Tegra division has indeed been losing money. This actually surprised me because Tegra 3 did very well in the market? Obviously there's an issue with expenses for development being high, but that isn't a huge long term problem. Personally I think it's an important area for nvidia to be in and nvidia has to compete here - Tegra 4 should be a net win for nvidia.

 

[notty22]

But you know that revenue ain't the same as operating income, right? You could make trillions in revenue and still lose money when it comes to operating income.

Oh, right. You only read PR reports.

Yawn.

Take a look at AMD's.

 

[sontin]

Investment in a new business will always be in the minus in the first few years.
Tegra is not here for three years. nVidia is calling it a "lifetime opportunity" for them.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

Yawn.

Take a look at AMD's.

I know you are but what am I? Nice one.

A lot of people are expecting razor thin margins for AMD on these parts, but they seem to be forgetting that they were already all but designed. They are semi custom off the shelf parts so the engineering costs to AMD are pretty negligible. It's just another way to make money off their previous work.

There's also a lot of speculating that the CPU in this thing is going to suck when it hasn't even seen the light of day yet. Things we do know are that it will be far faster than what's in the PS3 and Xbox360 right now, and it will get developers to actually multi-thread their games.

 

[Genx87]

You gotta be kidding me. Revenue? Notty? Really?

I hate it to break it to the armchair financial analysts who don't know what they're talking about, but revenue does not represent profits. It does not take expenses, opportunity costs, etc into account. You can literally have sky high revenue and still come out with an operating loss. Perhaps you should study up on that.

I just checked their financial information and the Tegra division has indeed been losing money. Now personally I think it's an important area for nvidia to be in and nvidia has to compete here - Tegra 4 should be a net win for nvidia.

Profit is really an accounting function. Tegra is a growing business. It not showing profits now isnt a big deal. The fact they are growing revenues at that rate is more important.

 

[blackened23]

Yawn.

Take a look at AMD's.

Okay, I like your strategy here. Instead of disputing the blatant inaccuracy and lack of knowledge in your post, you say "take a look at AMDs".

Imuoto was correct. Revenue != profit. Again, perhaps you should study up on it since you love being an armchair financial analyst while having little knowledge about financial reports.

 

[notty22]

You gotta be kidding me. Revenue? Notty? Really?

I hate it to break it to the armchair financial analysts who don't know what they're talking about, but revenue does not represent profits. It does not take expenses, opportunity costs, etc into account. You can literally have sky high revenue and still come out with a net loss. Perhaps you should study up on that.

I just checked their financial information and the Tegra division has indeed been losing money. Now personally I think it's an important area for nvidia to be in and nvidia has to compete here - Tegra 4 should be a net win for nvidia.

Oh you just looked and can confirm, lol. Of course it 'was losing'. It started off small, new division and Nvidia has re-invested it all and more every generation to build the business. It's far different than low-balling bottom feeding contracts of product not selling. oops.

 

[blackened23]

Profit is really an accounting function. Tegra is a growing business. It not showing profits now isnt a big deal. The fact they are growing revenues at that rate is more important.

I don't disagree. Clearly Tegra is nvidia's strategy for long term growth and it should pay off in the end.

But, clearly some posters were wrong in stating that Tegra has been profitable. It hasn't. Not yet. But i'm sure it will be, eventually.

 

[notty22]

I know you are but what am I? Nice one.

Here comes the dream team.

 

[ICDP]

It's called cherry picking financial reports. Read the contents of the report.
Tegra is going to continue to generate large amounts of revenue. With everything done on Tegra 4 but the launch, it takes money to make money.
Or layoff personnel. AMD knows about this aspect. read the news.

http://hexus.net/business/news/components/51717-nvidia-q4-revenue-16-per-cent-year-ago/

I didn't mention revenue so I can't see why you used a revenue chart to prove Tegra is currently making Nvidia money. It isn't and you asked for a link and it was provided proving this fact. Imouto said Tegra is currently losing Nvidia money. This is an accurate statement of fact and is nothing to do with revenue. You are arguing, and when losing you move the goalposts to suit your agenda.

I replied to you to show you your logical error because you missed the word AND in that link/quote you provided. In other words, the reason Nvidia were currently making money had nothing to to with Tegra but was despite Tegra. I also stated that in the long term Tegra should make them money so it is a worthwile investment.

 

[sontin]

But, clearly some posters were wrong in stating that Tegra has been profitable. It hasn't. Not yet. But i'm sure it will be, eventually.

nVidia gets money from Intel for getting out of the chipset business - $1,5 billion over 6 years.

They are reinvesting the money into the Tegra business line. So actually they are making money with Tegra...

 

[notty22]

This comes from a thread , where experts were reminded how sony and Microsoft lost money on consoles for YEARS. Cherry picking Tegra #'s out of the blue in this thread, where Sony is using a design AMD is currently paying to not manufacture, because they are sitting on UNsold inventory is amusing.

 

[notty22]

I didn't mention revenue so I can't see why you used a revenue chart to prove Tegra is currently making Nvidia money. It isn't and you asked for a link and it was provided proving this fact. Imouto said Tegra is currently losing Nvidia money. This is an accurate statement of fact and is nothing to do with revenue. You are arguing, and when losing you move the goalposts to suit your agenda.

I replied to you to show you your logical error because you missed the word AND in that link/quote you provided. In other words, the reason Nvidia were currently making money had nothing to to with Tegra but was despite Tegra. I also stated that in the long term Tegra should make them money so it is a worthwile investment.

What do you mean arguing? I asked him to supply links to his data.

 

[Vesku]

I bet Nvidia was a bit disappointed Tegra wasn't quite ready for the major consoles. But regardless of the bickering I have yet to see a reason to think the original Nvidia PR of "we didn't want it anyway" is anything but making the best of a lost opportunity.