Nvidia: Not Enough Money in a PS4 GPU for us to bother

[AnandThenMan]

Companies will say whatever suits them at the time, what else is new. Nvidia even went so far as to say that GPGPU is what will drive consumer GPU sales, not DX11.

 

[ShadowOfMyself]

Lol at this thread, was entertaining for sure with all the Lonbjerg posts (Im becoming a fan)

The thing is, even if what Nvidia are saying is true, they are too much of an egocentric company that they would want to do it anyway just for braggings rights/PR

So yeah, they are just deflecting it, which is fine since AMD would probably do the same

 

[Lonbjerg]

Nvidia at one time was also poo-pooing DX11 because they didn't have it.

Are you talking about AMD's whine over "too much tesselation" now? ^^

 

[SirPauly]

Companies will say whatever suits them at the time, what else is new. Nvidia even went so far as to say that GPGPU is what will drive consumer GPU sales, not DX11.

Sorry, my memory!

I don't remember them saying that -- I remember discussions that claimed they did. Some did take out of context what Mike Hara offered at a financial conference

DirectX 11 by itself is not going be the defining reason to buy a new GPU. It will be one of the reasons. This is why Microsoft is in work with the industry to allow more freedom and more creativity in how you build content, which is always good, and the new features in DirectX 11 are going to allow people to do that. But that no longer is the only reason, we believe, consumers would want to invest in a GPU,” explains Mr. Hara.

Somehow some translated this quote as DirectX 11 is not important to nVidia.

 

[Eureka]

I think you are being naive. There's a reason that there are laws against monopolies. Competition is a good thing for consumers. If you are a consumer, root for competition instead of a brand.

Hopefully, that competition will come from elsewhere besides AMD. I really don't understand why so many people are so quick to defend AMD... still waiting for the day they fold over and their GPU division is bought out by a bigger, better company. That or they keep laying off engineers until they're all picked up by better companies.

 

[SirPauly]

Imho,

Personally desire to see AMD compete strongly, innovate and to be rewarded with revenue, margins and share for their hard work.

Without competition gamers and consumers may be forced to pay more premiums based on evolutionary and incremental gains with performance, innovation and gaming experience potential.

I respect the talents of both AMD and nVidia but without competition both will show their predator fangs as they devour and feed upon consumers, innovation and value.

 

[3DVagabond]

Hopefully, that competition will come from elsewhere besides AMD. I really don't understand why so many people are so quick to defend AMD... still waiting for the day they fold over and their GPU division is bought out by a bigger, better company. That or they keep laying off engineers until they're all picked up by better companies.

So you're just an AMD hater.

 

[Lonbjerg]

Sorry, my memory!

I don't remember them saying that -- I remember discussions that claimed they did. Some did take out of context what Mike Hara offered at a financial conference



Somehow some translated this quote as DirectX 11 is not important to nVidia.

Gotta remember that one...as I have seen that argument before...another one debunked...thx

 

[blackened23]

So you're just an AMD hater.

Nah he isn't. Let's face it, corporate management at AMD has royally screwed things up in the past several years - they could be in such a better position had they not sold the rights to their mobile division entirely to Qualcomm for 65 million. How much money is qualcomm making these days with AMD mobile tech?
If AMD had billions to spend on R+D they would be in a better position right now, undoubtedly. But they aren't because of past screwups.

Yeah. Incompetent management. I hope they turn things around and want them to succeed but i'm not holding my breath. Now with that said I completely disagree with others about consoles not helping AMD at all. Clearly there is a lot of money involved, and this will help their future products as well since PC games will be more optimized for GCN architecture. Keep in mind that MOST games are multi platform and designs for both consoles and PCs. That will definitely be an incentive for developers to make designs around it, which is why -- as I pointed out earlier - that most TWIMTBP contracts jumped ship and went to AMD gaming evolved. That includes EA, ubisoft, square-enix, etc, etc. So this is definitely a good thing for AMD.

The economies of scale for microsoft and sony have nothing to do with their component suppliers - everything is still at profit. It resulted in an advance of 200 million to nvidia in 2001 for the original xbox GPU. Clearly that figure amounts to more than "nothing". What would such a figure be adjusted for inflation in 2013? A lot higher I'd imagine - Clearly, there is a lot of money involved. And that money has nothing whatsoever to do with the profitability for sony and microsoft - components are still sold for profit. It is true that it will take probably 3 years or so for the PS4 to become truly profitable, this has been the case with prior consoles. Again, that has nothing to do with component suppliers. They still make their cash.

 

[sontin]

Nvidia at one time was also poo-pooing DX11 because they didn't have it.

And AMD said that Tessellation was the biggest new feature of DX11.
That was one year before the "to much tessellation" statement. :awe:

 

[AnandThenMan]

And AMD said that Tessellation was the biggest new feature of DX11.
That was one year before the "*to much tessellation" statement. :awe:

Exactly. Marketing babble should always be taken with a grain of salt.

*too

 

[Eureka]

So you're just an AMD hater.

I wouldn't say I'm a hater. I can't really hate a corporation. I am, however, severely disappointed by a string of failures and poor management. Sure, they've pulled through with GCN, but what about the rest of the company? How are Bulldozer and Piledriver doing?

I liked ATi. However, let's be honest, they struggled for quite a few years until GCN came out.

As an engineer, I'm quite disappointed by their management. I don't work in the silicon industry but I've seen how a mismanaged corporation can squander away their R&D resources.

I don't understand all of the "hype" around AMD. Exactly what do you have to defend AMD with? That they're cheaper than Nvidia, and that you own one?

If nothing else, the success of AMD's GPU division shows that they have talent that could be capitalized upon. Right now all we have to defend AMD upon is that they make cheaper chips, and that they're the underdog. But quite honestly, they're the underdog for a reason, and I'd like to see them succeed, but under a different name.

 

[AnandThenMan]

But quite honestly, they're the underdog for a reason, and I'd like to see them succeed, but under a different name.

That makes no sense unless you hate them just to hate. Why don't you want AMD to succeed as AMD? Also who has done a better job of competing against Nvidia and Intel?

 

[3DVagabond]

I'm not defending AMD at all. It's strange that anyone in this thread would bring up defending AMD when the whole purpose of this thread is to defend nVidia not having any console wins.

 

[Eureka]

That makes no sense unless you hate them just to hate. Why don't you want AMD to succeed as AMD? Also who has done a better job of competing against Nvidia and Intel?

Because, even if you change leadership under AMD, you can't change the corporate culture. And that is the biggest hold back to innovation. If the corporate culture promotes managerial competition over technological breakthroughs, you're going to end up with more and more projects stuck in developmental hell.

There are plenty of competitors to Nvidia and Intel, just not in the consumer industry any more. On top of that, AMD is barely a competitor to Intel now, and only competitive to Nvidia in desktop GPUs.

Why do you want AMD to succeed as AMD? If it's only their GPU division that's succeeding, I'd rather see them succeed on their own, rather than part of AMD.

 

[blackened23]

That makes no sense unless you hate them just to hate. Why don't you want AMD to succeed as AMD? Also who has done a better job of competing against Nvidia and Intel?

Clearly being a critic is different than hating. I'd say you can own hardware from a company and still be critical - That is a lot different than "hating". There's nothing wrong with critical analysis whether you love a company or not.

The truth is, AMD has really screwed things up for several years and it is hurting them. Hopefully they can turn around, and I view the console wins as a minor victory for them.

 

[Cookie Monster]

That makes no sense unless you hate them just to hate. Why don't you want AMD to succeed as AMD? Also who has done a better job of competing against Nvidia and Intel?

ATi? They've done a fantastic job throughout the years (against nVIDIA) til merging with AMD. Still to this day, I tend to think that the graphics landscape would have been more competitive if ATi didn't merge with AMD..

 

[3DVagabond]

Clearly being a critic is different than hating. I'd say you can own hardware from a company and still be critical - That is a lot different than "hating". There's nothing wrong with critical analysis whether you love a company or not.

The truth is, AMD has really screwed things up for several years and it is hurting them. Hopefully they can turn around, and I view the console wins as a minor victory for them.

Critical analysis is not the same as wanting them to be unsuccessful.

 

[AnandThenMan]

ATi? They've done a fantastic job throughout the years (against nVIDIA) til merging with AMD.

huh? When ATI was purchased by AMD, their GPU products were a mess.

 

[Eureka]

I'm not defending AMD at all. It's strange that anyone in this thread would bring up defending AMD when the whole purpose of this thread is to defend nVidia not having any console wins.

Because, there are people who will defend AMD to death on the basis that it's AMD. This entire thread is based off of marketing and corporate posturing. It's very opinionated and emotional.

The point is, wanting them to be successful is not critical analysis either. It is, however, my wishful thinking that ATI graphics would be better suited in another company's R&D budget.

 

[AnandThenMan]

It is, however, my wishful thinking that ATI graphics would be better suited in another company's R&D budget.

Which company?

 

[Cookie Monster]

huh? When ATI was purchased by AMD, their GPU products were a mess.

R600 was a failure but nVIDIA had its share of failures e.g. most notably the NV30. Im sure they would have rebounded from the situations just fine.

 

[3DVagabond]

Because, there are people who will defend AMD to death on the basis that it's AMD. This entire thread is based off of marketing and corporate posturing. It's very opinionated and emotional.

The point is, wanting them to be successful is not critical analysis either. It is, however, my wishful thinking that ATI graphics would be better suited in another company's R&D budget.

I'm not rooting for AMD the company, per se. I could care less about any of them except they are US companies and I'd like to see the tech industry do well in the US. What I'm rooting for is competition. The more successful AMD is the better the competition. Their minimal competition against Intel is hurting the desktop CPU industry, IMO, and barely keeping prices in check.

AMD and nVidia are pushing each other. This is good, IMO.

 

[Arachnotronic]

You're lying, but I guess you'll say the same as Ibra if I request a link.

http://ir.amd.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=74093&p=quarterlyearnings

Go to the financial tables for Q4, and you will see AMD's graphics division posted operating income of $105M for 2012.

Now go to Nvidia's site, and check out their form 10-K http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=116466&p=irol-sec

They earned $884M in operating profit from GPU business during 2012.

So I was off, sorry - Nvidia just makes 8.5x what AMD does on graphics.

 

[notty22]

Nvidia is keeping busy.

The future... is tomorrow!


http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Tech/GTC-2013-Prepare-Graphics-Overload


http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Grafikkarten-Hardware-97980/News/GTC-2013-Livestream-1061084/

edit: wrong link