That does depend on the sequence played through though, unless you played through the exact same way as the websites did.
Also I'd wait till retail before making a judgement on X800XT overclocking, especially with VGA silencers and whatnot.
Also I'd wait till retail before making a judgement on X800XT overclocking, especially with VGA silencers and whatnot.
if at all...
frankly i don't think they'll overclock much better than the PRO - they're the same gpu. the performance difference will be the additional quad pipes, which will always keep the XT somewhat ahead, unlike the previous gen when you could overclock the PRO and get the same performance.
like the vga silencers will only install on the XT :roll:
the PRO will NEVER match XT performance as it lacks 4 pipes compared to XT; the point is simply i don't think the difference is worth the xtra $100 - I'd rather put it towards an nv40.
if it overclocks much, if at all.. AGAIN, i doubt the XT clock will exceed the PRO clocks by much, if at all - it's the same GPU. pipes will be the difference; i never said the PRO will be faster, simply the diff. to me isn't worth the $100 i'd rather put towards an nv40.
yup, and that's one of the reasons i'll have one.
I'm not usually a cocky person but I dont regard this as a bet I know I'm right, if you were as confident as me you wouldnt hesitate to make the bet because its like free money.
As far as your sm3.0 arguments this ground has been retread a million times, the only people still bringing it up are people with an agenda. The 6800u is an inferior card to the x800xt in all respects and this is the only argument that Nvidia fanbois have come up with to combat the superior card.
All the questions about pixel shader performance whether it be sm2.0 or sm3.0 will be answered with the release of Halflife 2.
LMAO...
the only ppl with an agenda or that deserve to be called "fanboy" in this thread are the ones making comments like, "The 6800u is an inferior card to the x800xt in all respects.."
the only ppl with an agenda or that deserve to be called "fanboy" in this thread are the ones making comments like, "The 6800u is an inferior card to the x800xt in all respects.."
Agreed Cainam.
SilverTrine, not for nothing, but performance in one game shouldn't be a deal sealer for anyone with a properly functioning mind. I could sit here and say the same thing for Doom 3 and Nvidia, but not only think do I think it is ridiclous, but utterly fanboy like. Who cares only about one game when dropping 400-500 dollars on a hardware upgrade? Only fanboys if that is going to support their weightless arguments in all honesty. (not saying all debates are weightless, but when you use only one example, it obviously becomes a pretty shallow debate)
You would only be fooling yourself if you think that purchases are swayed by one single title, considering that HL2 really isn't that revolutionary at all. It's a good looking game, but doesn't rip any technological envelopes open in any respect. And visually, STALKER is going to kill it. And then, anyone with half a brain can look at the partnership between ATi and Valve and EXPECT the game to run better on ATi hardware sinced it is being developed in conjuction between both companies. However, early tests do not indicate this at all. There is no big lead ever or in any resolution from the R420 to the NV40 in HL2 right now, so what is your point?
If you think the differences in performance is going to be astronomical, you're not getting many others here to buy into it. Maybe if it was NV3x against the R420, many more would agree with you, including me. But this is a whole new ballgame, and if you choose to look past it like it doesn't exist, than that's your own weakness.
Downplaying SM/PS 3.0 is also moot, considering all ATi fanboys will rave about it once ATi implements it in future hardware. And that in itself is known as blatant 'hypocrisy'. Sure it may not make a big difference or have a total edge today, but it WILL matter in time. The differences could be subtle, or they could be humungous. Trying to downplay the technology and what it may bring us in the near future is ridiculous to say the least.
SilverTrine, not for nothing, but performance in one game shouldn't be a deal sealer for anyone with a properly functioning mind. I could sit here and say the same thing for Doom 3 and Nvidia, but not only think do I think it is ridiclous, but utterly fanboy like. Who cares only about one game when dropping 400-500 dollars on a hardware upgrade? Only fanboys if that is going to support their weightless arguments in all honesty. (not saying all debates are weightless, but when you use only one example, it obviously becomes a pretty shallow debate)
You would only be fooling yourself if you think that purchases are swayed by one single title, considering that HL2 really isn't that revolutionary at all. It's a good looking game, but doesn't rip any technological envelopes open in any respect. And visually, STALKER is going to kill it. And then, anyone with half a brain can look at the partnership between ATi and Valve and EXPECT the game to run better on ATi hardware sinced it is being developed in conjuction between both companies. However, early tests do not indicate this at all. There is no big lead ever or in any resolution from the R420 to the NV40 in HL2 right now, so what is your point?
If you think the differences in performance is going to be astronomical, you're not getting many others here to buy into it. Maybe if it was NV3x against the R420, many more would agree with you, including me. But this is a whole new ballgame, and if you choose to look past it like it doesn't exist, than that's your own weakness.
Downplaying SM/PS 3.0 is also moot, considering all ATi fanboys will rave about it once ATi implements it in future hardware. And that in itself is known as blatant 'hypocrisy'. Sure it may not make a big difference or have a total edge today, but it WILL matter in time. The differences could be subtle, or they could be humungous. Trying to downplay the technology and what it may bring us in the near future is ridiculous to say the least.
nitromullet
Diamond Member
- Jan 7, 2004
- 9,031
- 36
- 91
Nobody in their right mind would take your bet. The benchmarks have repeatedly shown that ATi scores higher in DX9 titles than nVidia. Odds are that the same will be true for HL2. However, nVidia has the edge in OpenGL. Hopefully both cards will perform well enough in either arena that their respective "weaknesses" will not really be an issue.
As far as your statement goes in regards to X800XT being the superior card to 6800 Ultra in all respects... I think no comment is necessary since it speaks volumes on its own.
see.. i just don't understand it.
i bought an x800PRO. i like it. it's a great card.
will the XT be faster? sure.
will the 6800u be faster? mostly.
will the 6800GT be faster. maybe.
am i gonna lose any sleep over it? will owning the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th fastest video card challenge my manhood? lol.. no. so i really care? no... doesn't matter how good/bad the other cards are, this x800 is still a great card on its own merits. in the future when something is available which is THAT much better, i'll buy the damn thing.. no big deal.
what drives one to the point where THEIR video card must be the best above all others, beyond reason, at all cost? if it wasn't so annoying common, it would actually be quite interesting...
i bought an x800PRO. i like it. it's a great card.
will the XT be faster? sure.
will the 6800u be faster? mostly.
will the 6800GT be faster. maybe.
am i gonna lose any sleep over it? will owning the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th fastest video card challenge my manhood? lol.. no. so i really care? no... doesn't matter how good/bad the other cards are, this x800 is still a great card on its own merits. in the future when something is available which is THAT much better, i'll buy the damn thing.. no big deal.
what drives one to the point where THEIR video card must be the best above all others, beyond reason, at all cost? if it wasn't so annoying common, it would actually be quite interesting...
My earlier comment Cainam was that the only person to actually get hands-on experience with this card still isn't acting like a fanboy but rather wants to try out the competition as well, unlike the others who haven't even seen one yet but are slobberingly praising it the greatest thing that could ever be. Sorry if it came out wrong, but I'm just saying it's nice to see someone who is less biased than these guys and yet owns the actual hardware and can give us an informed rundown on the product.
As for the fanboys...I agree with nitro, when you try to look informed and well-reasoned then let a pure-fanboyism like that slip through...:roll:
As for the fanboys...I agree with nitro, when you try to look informed and well-reasoned then let a pure-fanboyism like that slip through...:roll:
Gamingphreek
Lifer
- Mar 31, 2003
- 11,679
- 0
- 81
Personally there are a few things that need clearing up.
#1 Silvertrine where the hell did you get the basis for those biased comments. Nvidia and ATi are completely neck and neck. If you have biased comments like that go somewhere else because in these forums we want GOOD SOLID reviews not biased ones.
#2 I think that there is still more to the 6800Ultra than meets the eye. i say this because how is a 12 pipe architecture keeping up with a 16 pipe! I think Nvidia is having trouble maintaining peak memery bandwidth
3# The 6800Ultra with a couple of driver revisions and optimizations (in respect to its onboard media encoder) will definately get better performance wise. Also i think earlier Jeff made a very interesting point. When the nv3x cards came out ATI boasted and cut Nvidia down everywhere because it had SM2.0 support. Now that Nvidia has a leg up on them everyone downplays Nvidia for implemeting a useless technology. That is very hippocritical and people need to take a step back and look at what they're saying.
I think Nvidia meant this card to be a decisive blow to ATI and so far it is doing pretty good at that job, however Nvidia still has a bit of work to do if it wants to completely beat ATI. As for ATI if they keep up the good job they will be in a very comfertable position for a while.
-Kevin
#1 Silvertrine where the hell did you get the basis for those biased comments. Nvidia and ATi are completely neck and neck. If you have biased comments like that go somewhere else because in these forums we want GOOD SOLID reviews not biased ones.
#2 I think that there is still more to the 6800Ultra than meets the eye. i say this because how is a 12 pipe architecture keeping up with a 16 pipe! I think Nvidia is having trouble maintaining peak memery bandwidth
3# The 6800Ultra with a couple of driver revisions and optimizations (in respect to its onboard media encoder) will definately get better performance wise. Also i think earlier Jeff made a very interesting point. When the nv3x cards came out ATI boasted and cut Nvidia down everywhere because it had SM2.0 support. Now that Nvidia has a leg up on them everyone downplays Nvidia for implemeting a useless technology. That is very hippocritical and people need to take a step back and look at what they're saying.
I think Nvidia meant this card to be a decisive blow to ATI and so far it is doing pretty good at that job, however Nvidia still has a bit of work to do if it wants to completely beat ATI. As for ATI if they keep up the good job they will be in a very comfertable position for a while.
-Kevin
A 12 pipe card can beat a 16 beacause it has a more efficient core (at running PS2.0 games at least), and is running at a higher speed.
its business, obviously you are going to downplay what your product cannot do. do you also remember the nvidiots crying out how unimportant PS2.0 is since there arent any games supporting it (at the time there were a few) and now they are praising PS3.0 although there are absolutely ZERO games that support it at the moment and its advantage over PS2.0 is still largely undetermined
Gamingphreek
Lifer
- Mar 31, 2003
- 11,679
- 0
- 81
The Radeon Core is not that much more efficeint than the Nvidia core. Aside the fact that one uses a Low-K Dielectric. Yes its running at a higher clockspeed but still youre gettin an extra 4 pipes! That will make a difference somewhere along the line once Nvidia gets all the kinks worked out. Also ATI is already, for the most part, maxed out on terms of clockspeed. That core is running at just about as fast as its gonna be.
Also how do you guys know that the ATI caard is running so much cooler. Nvidia ALWAYS goes overobard iwth their cooling solutions why is there reason to belive that they haven't done that again. I would be really interested in seeing the temps benchmark on both cards.
-Kevin
Also how do you guys know that the ATI caard is running so much cooler. Nvidia ALWAYS goes overobard iwth their cooling solutions why is there reason to belive that they haven't done that again. I would be really interested in seeing the temps benchmark on both cards.
-Kevin
The XT is. The Pro is not. People have gotten Pros up to 600 mhz core.
Because, even with a larger cooling solution, the 6800s have many more transistors and produce much more heat.
Oh no not again, please don't try to talk about something you don't know anything about or have no way of proving
Get better because of a media encoder? Do all games encode their music instantly and in-game, wasting hundreds of megabytes of space?
So Nvidia people can pump up SM3.0 performance all they want because Ati did, without being hypocrites?
Because you happen to have every one of those cards right? It can't possibly be maxed out with clockspeed if people are getting huge overclocks on it with better cooling. Something that is being maxed out clockspeed wise would be acting like the 5800 ultra, when gainward watercooled it it didn't overclock any better than without watercooling
But don't pay any attention to how loud the fan is, the ends always justifies the means
I just have one question. Why is the ati 800xt not available until the end of June? Why not now?
Gamingphreek
Lifer
- Mar 31, 2003
- 11,679
- 0
- 81
Hey reever do you know the term shut the hell ( iwoulid use a better term but im not fond of that word)up. I didn't appreciate those stupid comments. It just so happens i do know what im talking about so you can can it. Anyways i said I THINK!!!!!!! I didn't say or quote anything for certain so that is fixed.
As for the media encoder its on board stuppid. I might have it wrong but its something to do with media encoding (lol something along that line). no im well aware that games dont encode media realtime so dont talk down to me like im so noob cause im not.
I never said that (referring to the hyppocrites). I just said everyone was with ATI when they pumped up PS2.0 and it wasn't out yet. Now that Nvidia does that same thing everyone is against them saying it is a useless technology. I thik thats just a bit unfair.
No how the hell could i have everyone of those cards when 2 out of 3 of them aren't even out yet. I just saying that THEORETICALLy the XT is pretty much maxed out in terms of clockspeed from what i understand. I think Nvidia has a little bit of headroom and they would have more if they switched to Low-K.
As for the fans how the hell do you know how loud it is. Do you have a card NO!!!! Taking that into consideration is part of the benchmark. As a matter of fact i would be interested in temp bench marks if thats alright with you.
keysplayr2003 i didn't understand your post. Were you insulting me or reever or the thread in general lol.
-Kevin
As for the media encoder its on board stuppid. I might have it wrong but its something to do with media encoding (lol something along that line). no im well aware that games dont encode media realtime so dont talk down to me like im so noob cause im not.
I never said that (referring to the hyppocrites). I just said everyone was with ATI when they pumped up PS2.0 and it wasn't out yet. Now that Nvidia does that same thing everyone is against them saying it is a useless technology. I thik thats just a bit unfair.
No how the hell could i have everyone of those cards when 2 out of 3 of them aren't even out yet. I just saying that THEORETICALLy the XT is pretty much maxed out in terms of clockspeed from what i understand. I think Nvidia has a little bit of headroom and they would have more if they switched to Low-K.
As for the fans how the hell do you know how loud it is. Do you have a card NO!!!! Taking that into consideration is part of the benchmark. As a matter of fact i would be interested in temp bench marks if thats alright with you.
keysplayr2003 i didn't understand your post. Were you insulting me or reever or the thread in general lol.
-Kevin
Uninformed immature adults and kids. Leave them to their delusions. Without 'trylinear' and Ati's traditional 'underfiltering' for performance, they would not achieve some of the numbers that they do. I am even ignoring the 125mhz clock advantage.
The 6800 GT is going to be a great card to own for 399.
RussianSensation
Elite Member
- Sep 5, 2003
- 19,458
- 765
- 126
But only if the image quality isn't degraded
And patch 1.2 should fix the 16-bit texture representation in Far Cry....Hopefully performance will stay the same.. If Nvidia is able to provide performance increases while producing good image quality, everyone should applaud them or any driver team for that.
My greatest concern is why pay $400-500 for a videocard from a consumer's point of view expecting 10-50% performance improvements or whatever that might be from well respected companies like Nvidia and ATI? Don't get me wrong I love performance increases with drivers and all. However, shouldn't companies that have one of the best developers and driver and engineering teams be able to at least squeeze out the majority of the graphics power upon release? I'd like to buy a product that already gives me 95% of the performance and I'll settle for extra 5% down the road. Not that I am not satisfied wtih the new cards' performances, but I'd like to point out that in most other areas/products in business, a consumer is normally delivered as close to the final product as possible (with minor revisions down the line). Yet in the videocard market, we have allowed these companies to sell us products and then squeeze extra 30-40% of their performance down the line. In all honesty, if they took 2+ years to develop the cards, at least they could have optimized the drivers already so the users do not have to wait when paying such a hefty sum of money. This reminds me of the first batch of Nissan 350Z cars, which had an alignment problem on the front tires, causing premature wear of the rubber. Nissan then offered to fix the problem at service stations for free to current customers. I understand that some issues are overlooked during production, but I think at the very least delivering an "overall best" package should be a good business model today. Yet graphics card companies are the only ones that tend to deliver a "half-finished product" (remember, drivers are also a part of the product...I mean what if a person does not have internet for one reason or another and will not be able to upgrade the drivers that came with the card???) Other than that, I have no gripes with new technologies.
And lastly, 6800U might be more futureproof, but the last time I checked, a smart budget consumer doesnt buy top of the line card to last him 2+ years, but instead reverts to buying Geforce4 4200 $150 (2001-2002), then 9700Pro (2002-2003) $200 and so on... so to have 2nd best card. Surely in this simple example, it is much better than paying $350 for Geforce 4 4600 in 2001 (i might be off on the dates but the idea is there). The 2nd type of a consumer is someone who will spend $400/500 but update every 12 months and does this consumer care about futureproofness? NO, because he/she has enough money to upgrade OFTEN. Ok and we are arguying about? displacement mapping, 3Dc, PS3.0 vs 2.0? hmm... in the world when videocard performance usually doubles every 18 months, there is no such thing as futureproofness or long-term investment with videocards. If you fit the first consumer, you shouldn't care about futureproofness because you update gradually and strategically. If you are the 2nd type, you definately do not care because you have the $$$ to replace at will. And if you do care about futureproofness, more power to you for owning a card for more than 2+ years like I did and see it support 8.1 (and its extended PS1.4 shaders), and then PS2.0, only to find that card struggle with all new games, regardless whether or not it supports these features or not (*FX5200* DX9 PS2.0 feature....oh yeah!!!)
Of course, this is my theory, so what do I know....I only got an 8500 that struggles at Far Cry. :brokenheart:
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