nVidia G92 cards to be renamed

[Zap]

Originally posted by: PCTC2
I'll know in a few weeks. Bought parts for a new system online today and won't get it for 2 weeks.

2 weeks can ship back/forth across the USA on ground. Did they not have "real" inventory?

Originally posted by: cmdrdredd
Hardly, you think Nvidia isn't working on a GTX300 or something AFTER the soon to be released GTX295?

[typical NVIDIA hater] Yeah, but the GTX300 will be a rebadged GTX 260 [/typical NVIDIA hater] 😛

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
I think BenSkywalker is right about the naming scheme becoming less confusing by doing this. With this naming scheme, there is no question in performance differences by going by the name of the GPU.

That's actually a good point. I've seen a couple threads here and there asking if the 9800 GTX+ is as good as a GTX 260, and if a Radeon 370 is as good as a Radeon 4850.

 

[Modular]

Originally posted by: Qbah
And it won't matter to the average Joe since he will just buy a GTS240, not a 8800GT or 9800GT and he will get the same... as long as the "new" GTS cards won't come with a price premium. And I find it highly unlikely that people will upgrade from 9800GT to a GTS240 for example, since they will most likely ask first.

I disagree entirely. The average Joe doesn't ask questions, they follow marketing. When they see something "new" come out they snap it up. nVidia is banking on this fact and hoping that the average consumer will sell off their 8800gt for a newer GTS240. Anyone who says different is just flat out looking through colored glass.

Another sad fact is that even if they were to ask before buying, where do you think the average person goes for tech knowledge? Best Buy and Fry's. Have you ever talked to a sales person at one of those stores? I have, and they know nothing more than the average consumer walking in there to ask them questions...


Edited for their/there usage 😱

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Modular

Originally posted by: Qbah
And it won't matter to the average Joe since he will just buy a GTS240, not a 8800GT or 9800GT and he will get the same... as long as the "new" GTS cards won't come with a price premium. And I find it highly unlikely that people will upgrade from 9800GT to a GTS240 for example, since they will most likely ask first.

I disagree entirely. The average Joe doesn't ask questions, they follow marketing. When they see something "new" come out they snap it up. nVidia is banking on this fact and hoping that the average consumer will sell off their 8800gt for a newer GTS240. Anyone who says different is just flat out looking through colored glass.

Another sad fact is that even if they were to ask before buying, where do you think the average person goes for tech knowledge? Best Buy and Fry's. Have you ever talked to a sales person at one of those stores? I have, and they know nothing more than the average consumer walking in their to ask them questions...

Sometimes, I go into Best Buy to buy a game or something, and I'll go into the computer department and ask questions just for fun. Just to see what they'll say. I would say that only 1 out of every 10 BB "tech guys" actually has his facts straight and keeps up with technology. And these are the "Geek Squad" personnel. Forget about the guys roaming the floor.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

I am not surprised by this. Hell, I even think of it as a good move. Why does Nvidia need to scale down the GTX260 and 280? The 9800 series is basically already a scaled down version of it (i.e. GT200 is a scaled up version of G92.) From a performance standpoint, what could Nvidia do to really supplant the 9600GT, 9800GT, and 9800GTX+? It's just a smart business move at this point in time. And from a performance per watt standpoint, Nvidia was doing pretty well until the HD4670 and now the HD4830 hit the market.

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

The downside I see is a rebadged 8800/9800 is still going to draw nearly as much power as the higher-end parts whereas a 4670, because of the new tech, will draw much less power while still being competitive.

Some power numbers. The 9800GT uses 23% more power which falls a bit below what it beats the 4670 by in terms of performance on average at vid card limited settings. I can understand your line of thought on this point, but the numbers indicate that power consumption in that market segment won't be an issue for them. ATi wasn't focusing on low power designs with any of the 4xx0 parts, that may change moving forward but as of now performance per watt would seem to be even to slightly giving nV the edge in this particular comparison(the situation does change if you go to the 4830 where is comes out ahead, but we were talking about the 4670 😉 ).

Rumors has it that ATI is already preparing it's next generation card.

Hehe, ATi is working on at least their next three generations worth of cards right now- if they aren't they are going out of business. Same with nVidia.

Why didn't you use their latest power numbers? The HD4830 is a direct competitor to the 9800GT (not the HD4670), and AMD managed to tweak the power consumption of the card to be better than the competition. The HD4550, HD4670, 9600GT, and HD4830 offer the best performance per watt when compared its competitor. The HD4550 is faster and uses less power than the 9500GT. The HD4670 is just as fast (typically faster than?) the 9600GSO and uses less power. The 9600GT nicely bridges the performance and power consumption gap between the HD4670 and the HD4830/9800GT.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Why didn't you use their latest power numbers?

That's a good question, you should point out the huge differences between them too(there aren't any 😉 ). As far as why I brought up that comparison- I didn't, I was responding to someone else. Furthermore- in the part of the text you quoted I mentioned the fact that the 4830 had an edge in performance per watt without prompting.

The HD4670 is just as fast (typically faster than?) the 9600GSO and uses less power. The 9600GT nicely bridges the performance and power consumption gap between the HD4670 and the HD4830/9800GT.

The 4670 is going head to head with the 9600GT at this point, you can get an overclocked 9600GT for $64.99 AR atm, $55.99 is the cheapest price AR for a 4670. Performance per watt between those two parts are quite close.

 

[geokilla]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: geokilla
W T F.

If this goes on, ATI's gonna surpass NVIDIA in terms of gaming performance. Rumors has it that ATI is already preparing it's next generation card.

If they're just changing the names, how does this change performance? As newer cards emerge, the previous cards just move down a rung.

Examples: Hypothetical naming.

9600GT becomes GTS 230
9800GT becomes GTS240
9800GTX becomes GTS250

GTX260
GTX280
GTX285
GTX295

GTX360
GTX380

GTX460
GTX480

and so on.

As new cards are released, the older ones will change in there status. From "Enthusiast" to "Performance". From "Performance" to "Mainstream" and from "Mainstream" to "Value". And prices will shift accordingly when the newer tech comes out, as it always does. You can get a 9600GT for 60.00 with a rebate right now, when it's debut price was something like 179? IIRC.

I think BenSkywalker is right about the naming scheme becoming less confusing by doing this. With this naming scheme, there is no question in performance differences by going by the name of the GPU.

If it's as you say and they're just releasing new high end products and bumping down the older products into different market segments, I guess that type of marketing strategy would work for NVIDIA. But us "geeks" would be like OMGWTFBBQ all the time.

Btw, I got my 9600GT for around $70 AR back in the end of August. Don't remember if I got my rebate or not, but currently, Canada does not seem to have any 9600GT for $60AR.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Rike
No, this why they haven't scaled the true 200 cards down. It's not about able, they just aren't doing it because they are doing to rebadge the same old cards again. Millions of people will fall for this and "upgrade" their 8800GTs and swear they can tell the difference when they are running nearly identical hardware. :disgust:

Nvidia stockholders: win
Most everyone else: lose
:thumbsdown: for Nvidia

Except for us who know what we are doing, we keep on getting cheap great deals and basically have our hardware subsidized by those not in the know.

 

[spittledip]

This happens every year. This is nothing new. ATI does the same exact thing. I am not sure if it is the most honest way of doing things, but it is an effective way of getting rid of older parts.

 

[Quiksilver]

Originally posted by: spittledip
This happens every year. This is nothing new. ATI does the same exact thing. I am not sure if it is the most honest way of doing things, but it is an effective way of getting rid of older parts.

ATI lower end products are based on the same architecture as the higher-end products but with a few bells and whistles disabled or removed.

What Nvidia has been doing is just becoming annoying. Starting with the 8800GT; which was a great card but they choose to release it under the old series of cards. Hell, I can name more situations too; 9800GT = 8800GT that had a die shrink. 9800GTS = 8800GTS 512 with a die shrink as well IIRC. You could also go with the GTX 260 and GTX 260 216 (I think thats right.) It's just annoying.

At this rate I hope ATI buries Nvidia like Nvidia did back when ATI couldn't get the 2900 series cards out on time with decent performance.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: geokilla

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: geokilla
W T F.

If this goes on, ATI's gonna surpass NVIDIA in terms of gaming performance. Rumors has it that ATI is already preparing it's next generation card.

If they're just changing the names, how does this change performance? As newer cards emerge, the previous cards just move down a rung.

Examples: Hypothetical naming.

9600GT becomes GTS 230
9800GT becomes GTS240
9800GTX becomes GTS250

GTX260
GTX280
GTX285
GTX295

GTX360
GTX380

GTX460
GTX480

and so on.

As new cards are released, the older ones will change in there status. From "Enthusiast" to "Performance". From "Performance" to "Mainstream" and from "Mainstream" to "Value". And prices will shift accordingly when the newer tech comes out, as it always does. You can get a 9600GT for 60.00 with a rebate right now, when it's debut price was something like 179? IIRC.

I think BenSkywalker is right about the naming scheme becoming less confusing by doing this. With this naming scheme, there is no question in performance differences by going by the name of the GPU.

If it's as you say and they're just releasing new high end products and bumping down the older products into different market segments, I guess that type of marketing strategy would work for NVIDIA. But us "geeks" would be like OMGWTFBBQ all the time.

Btw, I got my 9600GT for around $70 AR back in the end of August. Don't remember if I got my rebate or not, but currently, Canada does not seem to have any 9600GT for $60AR.

At any rate, this should go a long way to ending the naming scheme complaints. That is after the initial traumatic shock everyone will put themselves through. LOL.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003


At any rate, this should go a long way to ending the naming scheme complaints. That is after the initial traumatic shock everyone will put themselves through. LOL.

Until Nvidia decides to change the series name again and we go through the same renaming scheme.

 

[WelshBloke]

Are they going to do a mass renumbering every new gen?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003


At any rate, this should go a long way to ending the naming scheme complaints. That is after the initial traumatic shock everyone will put themselves through. LOL.

Until Nvidia decides to change the series name again and we go through the same renaming scheme.

Go through? hehehe.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Quiksilver


At this rate I hope ATI buries Nvidia like Nvidia did back when ATI couldn't get the 2900 series cards out on time with decent performance.

You want the company with the top single GPU, and soon to be the top overall card to be "buried" because you dont like how they name them?

Well, at least we know what angle you are coming from.



I dont care if there are two cards called "ejkh;gajdg" and "ewaeffgg11000."

As long as I can look at a chart + reviews before I purchase and know which one is better, why does it matter what it says on the box?

And to the people who buy performance GPUs and dont do their homework to know that both ATi and nV have basically re-badged cards in the past, probably dont know the difference between G92 and GT200 anyway.

 

[Quiksilver]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Quiksilver


At this rate I hope ATI buries Nvidia like Nvidia did back when ATI couldn't get the 2900 series cards out on time with decent performance.

You want the company with the top single GPU, and soon to be the top overall card to be "buried" because you dont like how they name them?

Well, at least we know what angle you are coming from.

I never said permanently. It's a love/hate relationship with me and Nvidia. I think it's a time to change to see ATI shine for a yera or two; then flip-flop again. It seems to bring the best out of the manufactures that way.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Quiksilver

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Quiksilver


At this rate I hope ATI buries Nvidia like Nvidia did back when ATI couldn't get the 2900 series cards out on time with decent performance.

You want the company with the top single GPU, and soon to be the top overall card to be "buried" because you dont like how they name them?

Well, at least we know what angle you are coming from.

I never said permanently. It's a love/hate relationship with me and Nvidia. I think it's a time to change to see ATI shine for a yera or two; then flip-flop again. It seems to bring the best out of the manufactures that way.

Well ATi is shining right now, in my eyes. They brought top-end cards from both companies down to a price where you dont have to be a Jordanian King to own one for the moment. :thumbsup:

 

[Pantalaimon]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Quiksilver

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: Quiksilver


At this rate I hope ATI buries Nvidia like Nvidia did back when ATI couldn't get the 2900 series cards out on time with decent performance.

You want the company with the top single GPU, and soon to be the top overall card to be "buried" because you dont like how they name them?

Well, at least we know what angle you are coming from.

I never said permanently. It's a love/hate relationship with me and Nvidia. I think it's a time to change to see ATI shine for a yera or two; then flip-flop again. It seems to bring the best out of the manufactures that way.

Well ATi is shining right now, in my eyes. They brought top-end cards from both companies down to a price where you dont have to be a Jordanian King to own one for the moment. :thumbsup:

Be careful or Rollo will berate you for saying that. I seem to remember he said on another forum that we as consumers should be happy to pay the sky high prices that NVIDIA wanted initially for the good of the industry.

 

[cusideabelincoln]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Why didn't you use their latest power numbers?

That's a good question, you should point out the huge differences between them too(there aren't any 😉 ). As far as why I brought up that comparison- I didn't, I was responding to someone else. Furthermore- in the part of the text you quoted I mentioned the fact that the 4830 had an edge in performance per watt without prompting.

My point, which you missed, was that the article you listed didn't include the HD4830, and that is an oversight since it is now a major player for anyone's needs. And I wasn't questioning as to why you brought up the comparison; I was just adding to it and giving you my view of the market. That is all.

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

The HD4670 is just as fast (typically faster than?) the 9600GSO and uses less power. The 9600GT nicely bridges the performance and power consumption gap between the HD4670 and the HD4830/9800GT.

The 4670 is going head to head with the 9600GT at this point, you can get an overclocked 9600GT for $64.99 AR atm, $55.99 is the cheapest price AR for a 4670. Performance per watt between those two parts are quite close.

Yes, they are pretty close but in most reviews and benchmarks the 9600GT is a good deal faster than the HD4670, and its performance lead usually grows when the resolution and detail settings are cranked up. So I don't consider the HD4670 a direct competitor to the 9600GT, and I think that is pretty evident in the pricing. Afterall the HD4670 is usually cheaper.

 

[PingSpike]

This is annoying, but really nothing new. Video card marketing names are the worst and have been for a long time. They're mostly changed around to fool people that are just barely more enlightened then those guys that bought the fx5200 with 512mb of memory "because it was the fastest". I'm not sure what I think here...my bother in law says he's got a pretty sweet video card (its a 7300le) and my sister's boyfriend says his card is "pretty fast" (all he knew was it was 7 series, 7300 or 7600 he said). They aren't unhappy, so who am I to crap on them? And who can blame them for not knowing? Its nuts, no one can make sense of it without a lot of research. And then the rules get changed in 3 months. And its true they subsidize the better parts for the rest of us.

 

[ArchAngel777]

Originally posted by: PingSpike
This is annoying, but really nothing new. Video card marketing names are the worst and have been for a long time. They're mostly changed around to fool people that are just barely more enlightened then those guys that bought the fx5200 with 512mb of memory "because it was the fastest". I'm not sure what I think here...my bother in law says he's got a pretty sweet video card (its a 7300le) and my sister's boyfriend says his card is "pretty fast" (all he knew was it was 7 series, 7300 or 7600 he said). They aren't unhappy, so who am I to crap on them? And who can blame them for not knowing? Its nuts, no one can make sense of it without a lot of research. And then the rules get changed in 3 months. And its true they subsidize the better parts for the rest of us.

I know... This is so painful to encounter a loved one who thinks they have a great video card. Ignorange is bliss, so it is better to bite the tongue, but still... My dad bought one of those Geforce 5200's FX to replace his Radeon 9700 Pro that I have given him. I so burned with rage that I told him the card he purchased was a total peice of shit and he set himself back like 5 generations by doing such a thing.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Yes, they are pretty close but in most reviews and benchmarks the 9600GT is a good deal faster than the HD4670, and its performance lead usually grows when the resolution and detail settings are cranked up. So I don't consider the HD4670 a direct competitor to the 9600GT, and I think that is pretty evident in the pricing. Afterall the HD4670 is usually cheaper.

$9 difference in price, I consider them to be competitors at that price point. It is true, they are not competitive in performance really at all, but ATi has them priced to go head ot head with the 9600GT right now so that is what it will get compared to.

 

[MagickMan]

Sweet, my 8800GT just got upgraded again, and I didn't even need to open my case.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: MagickMan
Sweet, my 8800GT just got upgraded again, and I didn't even need to open my case.

:laugh:

 

[SlowSpyder]

Part of me, it drives me nuts when Nvidia renames the same product and markets it as something new. But in this case I do think this makes sense. The 9800 cards are more or less a similar architecture just with less 'stuff' and are already sold in the mid to enthusiast range. This naming clears up some confusion as to what is better, the 9800GTX+ or a GTX260... it'd be difficult for someone not in the loop to decipher, this clears it up.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: Quiksilver

Originally posted by: spittledip
This happens every year. This is nothing new. ATI does the same exact thing. I am not sure if it is the most honest way of doing things, but it is an effective way of getting rid of older parts.

ATI lower end products are based on the same architecture as the higher-end products but with a few bells and whistles disabled or removed.

What Nvidia has been doing is just becoming annoying. Starting with the 8800GT; which was a great card but they choose to release it under the old series of cards. Hell, I can name more situations too; 9800GT = 8800GT that had a die shrink. 9800GTS = 8800GTS 512 with a die shrink as well IIRC. You could also go with the GTX 260 and GTX 260 216 (I think thats right.) It's just annoying.

At this rate I hope ATI buries Nvidia like Nvidia did back when ATI couldn't get the 2900 series cards out on time with decent performance.

die shrinks are GOOD, and EVERYONE renames a die shrink.
What nvidia is doing is renaming a NON die shrunk part. That really is identical.
Not all that bad though, it is easy to do the research and know what is going on. On that note, the whole "ATI parts are cut down versions of the latest parts". Same can be said for nvidia. The G200 series is just more of the same components, more shaders, more bandwidth, etc... It really doesn't matter, what matters in the end is price, and performance.