Nvidia Fermi versus radeon 5800 benchmarks out!

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v8envy

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2002
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The circuit board isn't what hogs power. GPU and memory is the lion's share of the power draw, and that doesn't result in a savings no matter what the PCB layout.

While it may be possible to fit two 470s into a 300 watt envelope the question is: what clocks and voltage are required to hit that? Would a 20% downlock be enough, and if so would the resulting performance be "worth it?"
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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This is a whole new architecture, so drivers wouldnt even be near mature yet.

I'd still take anything with a grain.

It is showing 470 and 5870 trading blows.
They've had more than enough time to get the drivers ready for this thing. I'm sure they've had working silicon for a while now.


I don't know how much faith to put in these benches, but unless Fermi is an absolute bargain this would be fairly underwhelming.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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The circuit board isn't what hogs power. GPU and memory is the lion's share of the power draw, and that doesn't result in a savings no matter what the PCB layout.

While it may be possible to fit two 470s into a 300 watt envelope the question is: what clocks and voltage are required to hit that? Would a 20% downlock be enough, and if so would the resulting performance be "worth it?"
How does AMD do a 5750 with no power connector? They didn't reduce clocks.
9800gt's run with no pci-e connectors and you can put them on stock clocks.

There must be something they do to reduce power without performance?
I'm no card expert.

So how much power does the gtx 470 gpu alone use?
How much does a gtx 4xx pcb use?
How do you know they will have to downclock?

The last time I read a charlie article he stated that the gtx480 consumed 225 watts.(confirmed )
I don't know where you get the gtx 470 uses 225 watts.
Anyone have a link to that? Did I miss it in the above article?
 
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happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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They've had more than enough time to get the drivers ready for this thing. I'm sure they've had working silicon for a while now.


I don't know how much faith to put in these benches, but unless Fermi is an absolute bargain this would be fairly underwhelming.
In the past 5 months how much more has Amd gotten out of there drivers? 10/15%?
I noticed this article use the famed 10.3 catalyst.
I don't pay attention to that stuff when I download drivers.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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How does AMD do a 5750 with no power connector? They didn't reduce clocks.
9800gt's run with no pci-e connectors and you can put them on stock clocks.

There must be something they do to reduce power without performance?
I'm no card expert.

So how much power does the gtx 470 gpu alone use?
How much does a gtx 4xx pcb use?
How do you know they will have to downclock?

The last time I read a charlie article he stated that the gtx480 consumed 225 watts.
I don't know where you get the gtx 470 uses 225 watts.
Anyone have a link to that? Did I miss it in the above article?

http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17921/1/

Though it's a Fudzilla link, so who knows for sure...
 

sciwizam

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2004
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I thought everyone knew these benches. That thread in the OP is like a compilation of all the benches posted over the last week at beyond3d.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
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They've had more than enough time to get the drivers ready for this thing. I'm sure they've had working silicon for a while now.


I don't know how much faith to put in these benches, but unless Fermi is an absolute bargain this would be fairly underwhelming.
I remember my 280s got a fairly impressive boost a month or two after release.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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In the past 5 months how much more has Amd gotten out of there drivers? 10/15%?
I noticed this article use the famed 10.3 catalyst.
I don't pay attention to that stuff when I download drivers.
They may have gotten more performance in specific games (especially in CrossFire) but I doubt they've gotten very much across the board... maybe a few percent? Not really sure... it'd be nice if there was a 5xxx launch drivers vs. current driver bench page on some site. I read ABT's driver comparrison, but they use a 4870 which I'm sure has very mature drivers at this point.
 

tviceman

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2008
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This is all based on rumors, speculation and rough guesstimate calculations.

Rumors right now put the TDP of the 480 at 280W and the 470 at 225. Double that for a dual GPU card and you're at 560 and 450. .
Your math is waaaaaaaaaaaay wrong. The power draw of any dual gpu card is not anywhere close to 2x the power draw from one of it's single gpu brethren.
 

Hauk

Platinum Member
Nov 22, 2001
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Most people are expecting the GTX 480 to be around the same price as the 5970.
Yep. What I was trying to say was, even if gaming performance puts it closer to a 5870 price will closer to..

I'll go back to sleep now. :)
 

tviceman

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Most people are expecting the GTX 480 to be around the same price as the 5970.
That could be, especially if the card has a limited run and supply. However, if supply isn't extremely limited (after initial release) and the card doesn't drop to a significantly cheaper price, it will be beyond disappointing.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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I remember my 280s got a fairly impressive boost a month or two after release.
Yea, but didn't the GTX2x0 cards also launch pretty much on time? In this case Nvidia's driver team has had many extra months from when they were supposed to have launch drivers ready.
 
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Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
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Yea, but didn't the GTX2x0 cards also launch pretty much on time? In this case Nvidia's driver team have had many extra months from when they were supposed to have launch drivers ready.
New drivers won't improve performance at all.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
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Yea, but didn't the GTX2x0 cards also launch pretty much on time? In this case Nvidia's driver team have had many extra months from when they were supposed to have launch drivers ready.
I thought the rumor was that they didn't have working cards and showed a fake at one point in time?

I also thought they just gave partners sample cards last month and specs were not finalized . Doesn't sound driver ready to me.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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New drivers won't improve performance at all.
I wouldn't say never, but didn't really think so. Nvidia's Big Bang drivers were more of an exception than a rule. Drivers typically add features and fix bugs, at least in single card setups.
 

tviceman

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Mar 25, 2008
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I had a link to the confrimed gtx480 at 225 watts.
I can't find it. :(

It was discussed on this forum.

Edit : I believe it was a Bright side of the news article. or semi accurate?
I think I remember that article. With all the confusion regarding actual concrete info surrounding fermi, I'm betting 225 watts is the TDP for the gtx270.

New drivers won't improve performance at all.
:( You're joking, right?
 

tviceman

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I thought the rumor was that they didn't have working cards and showed a fake at one point in time?

I also thought they just gave partners sample cards last month and specs were not finalized . Doesn't sound driver ready to me.
If benchmarks for the gtx 470 are showing similar minimums to the 5870, yet lower averages, then it sounds like in instances where scenes aren't at their most complex GF100 isn't being fully utilized. Given this, I think there are some driver bottlenecks going on.
 
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Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
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I think I remember that article. With all the confusion regarding actual concrete info surrounding fermi, I'm betting 225 watts is the TDP for the gtx270.



:( You're joking, right?
Well, new drivers will improve performance, but there are two caveats.
1) They will probably not be huge gains for single cards
2) Most current games (the big ones, being used for these benchmarks) are probably already quite optimised for, so there might not be huge amounts, if anything, to come.

Obviously things like SLI will likely see good gains, and future games might be a bit of a crapshoot (but they are also in the future...)
Plus you should hope NV manage to put out a decent driver considering they have had this thing in hand for 6+ months (presumably at least a working prototype for in house development), so that 6 months of development should mean the launch drivers should be pretty good at making use of the card.
 

tviceman

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Well, new drivers will improve performance, but there are two caveats.
1) They will probably not be huge gains for single cards
2) Most current games (the big ones, being used for these benchmarks) are probably already quite optimised for, so there might not be huge amounts, if anything, to come.

Obviously things like SLI will likely see good gains, and future games might be a bit of a crapshoot (but they are also in the future...)
Plus you should hope NV manage to put out a decent driver considering they have had this thing in hand for 6+ months (presumably at least a working prototype for in house development), so that 6 months of development should mean the launch drivers should be pretty good at making use of the card.
Good points, but did you read my post (#45 in this thread) about minimums and average frame rates? Is anything I'm saying there making sense?
 

PUN

Golden Member
Dec 5, 1999
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Once GTX480 is released, it'll exchange blows with 5870, but at $599.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
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Once GTX480 is released, it'll exchange blows with 5870, but at $599.
Well according to the "benchmarks" that are out already, the 470 exchanges blows with the 5870.

So if the 480 does as well, as your theory states, then that means the 470 and 480 could possible go back and forth as well.

I'm going to say that isnt likely.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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Good points, but did you read my post (#45 in this thread) about minimums and average frame rates? Is anything I'm saying there making sense?
I see the Crysis min frame rate issue at 8xAA for the 5870. At 4xAA the 5870 is clearly better, but at 8xAA the situation changes. I wonder if that's a VRAM limitaion? Or is it a architecure difference? Without more information about that, it's hard to say what's going on (again assuming these numbers are true).

But seeing as the averages are close (with the 5870 actually being faster) I'd say that it's a hicup, otherwise the 5870's average should be lower than the GTX4xx card's.
 

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