Nvidia Fermi versus radeon 5800 benchmarks out!

Kuzi

Senior member
Sep 16, 2007
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Nice find. It would be interesting if these numbers are true.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
126
gtx470 90-95%
hd5870 100%
gtx480 110-115%

Not very exciting without relevant pricing information.
 
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v8envy

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2002
2,720
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Not exciting, but very much in line with common sense predictions that Fermi will turn out roughly GTX295 +- 10% performance in current games. If these numbers are true I can definitely see at least $400 for the 470 and $700 for the 480 until the refresh parts are ready.
 

clok1966

Golden Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,395
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Am i reading all this wrong, a card ATI has out now (5870) is basicly the same speed as the new one NV is putting out, and is 10% slower then the top of line one? Wasnt the GTX295 10% faster then the 5870 already?

Maybe Im jut not getting it, it appears to be a HUGE card so they didnt improve size, does it use less power?

No I'm not being sarcastic here, I'm a few steps away form a new card and want to make the best choice. 10% performance for 2X the price? When NV already has a card that does the same thing?

please point out the big picture, what am I missing or making to simple?
 

KIAman

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2001
3,342
23
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Some interesting things I saw were the high minimum framerates and general framerate consistency. Of course, this requires more testing to confirm.

Still not worth it if it was priced $400+ IMO. I'd consider a GTX480 over HD5870 if it were priced exactly at $400 but then I'd need to see the power consumption to determine if I need a new PSU.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
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ostif.org
It will be interesting to see if performance climbs shaprly with overclocking the CPU.

I have a feeling that the 5870 and GTX 470/480 will be CPU limited in a lot of situations.
 

PUN

Golden Member
Dec 5, 1999
1,589
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81
Am i reading all this wrong, a card ATI has out now (5870) is basicly the same speed as the new one NV is putting out, and is 10% slower then the top of line one? Wasnt the GTX295 10% faster then the 5870 already?

Maybe Im jut not getting it, it appears to be a HUGE card so they didnt improve size, does it use less power?

No I'm not being sarcastic here, I'm a few steps away form a new card and want to make the best choice. 10% performance for 2X the price? When NV already has a card that does the same thing?

please point out the big picture, what am I missing or making to simple?

Yes, you are completely not getting something here.
GTX295 is a dual GPU.
If you put it that way, 4890x2 (maybe even 4850x2) can rape GTX480
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
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This is a whole new architecture, so drivers wouldnt even be near mature yet.

I'd still take anything with a grain.

It is showing 470 and 5870 trading blows.
 
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v8envy

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2002
2,720
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please point out the big picture, what am I missing or making to simple?
Multi-GPU comes with its own share of issues. Moreover, these cards are probably fast enough to make use of DX11 in the coming year(s). It makes *zero* sense to pay $500+ for a high end card without DX11 (or even DX10.1) support, but it may make sense to get an equivalent performing single GPU card with DX11 even if it costs a bit more. Think of it as the 7950GX2 vs 8800GTX -- which one would you rather have 3 years later?
 

mchammer187

Diamond Member
Nov 26, 2000
9,116
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I havent been following closely so does anyone know if Nvidia is releasing something like the 5970 right out of the gate or is it gonna be several months until a part like that is released.
 

v8envy

Platinum Member
Sep 7, 2002
2,720
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This is a whole new architecture, so drivers wouldnt even be near mature yet.

I'd still take anything with a grain.
Not just that, but I'm not sure the clocks and # of shaders are final either. The photographs are of ES parts, which may not perform exactly like production parts.

So yeah, mountain of salt until the retail parts are actually released and official, exhaustive head to head benchmarks published by trustworthy sites. However, I think it is safe to say a single 470 will NOT be performing at the level of a 5970. Also safe to say that a 470 will not be slower than a 5850.
 

ScorcherDarkly

Senior member
Aug 7, 2009
450
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Am i reading all this wrong, a card ATI has out now (5870) is basicly the same speed as the new one NV is putting out, and is 10% slower then the top of line one? Wasnt the GTX295 10% faster then the 5870 already?
From generation to generation, the new top-end single GPU getting approximately the same performance as last generation's dual GPU is pretty typical. For example, the 5870 was a little faster than a 4870x2. If the new card clocks in over that, its a bonus. The problem with Fermi is that in the absence of a product, there's been hype, to the point some were saying the GTX480 was going to beat even the 5970. Historically, these expectations are friggin nuts, but people had to come up with some way of justifying why the god-like engineers at nV were delivering a product 6 months later than they had planned to. A ginormous boost in performance was the only explanation that didn't make the company look bad.

So, according to this link, they've met the standard of the single GPU getting as good or slightly better performance than last gen's dual card. If it had been delivered at the same time as the 5870 last fall, everyone would be perfectly happy. With a 6 month delay, I expect people are going to be underwhelmed (at least the objective ones, the die-hard green fans are going to claim the performance crown makes the delay irrelevant). Pile on top that the card is (probably) going to be extremely hot, power hungry, expensive, and produced in limited supply. People are going to be disappointed.
 

ShadowOfMyself

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2006
4,230
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This is a whole new architecture, so drivers wouldnt even be near mature yet.

I'd still take anything with a grain.
Card isnt even released and we are already on damage control mode?

I want to see you use the same argument for AMD when this happens

Btw, the troll that everyone loves to bash, Charlie, turned out to be right huh? How unexpected... /roll
 

Kenmitch

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,504
2,245
136
This is a whole new architecture, so drivers wouldnt even be near mature yet.

I'd still take anything with a grain.
Maybe true....But maybe it's also the reason for the extended delay also. And possibly one of the reasons for the fry my GPU drivers also.

One just has to wonder about these things :)
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
Card isnt even released and we are already on damage control mode?

I want to see you use the same argument for AMD when this happens

Btw, the troll that everyone loves to bash, Charlie, turned out to be right huh? How unexpected... /roll
Huh?

Why would there need to be damage control in a thread where the benchmarks show the lower end card trading blows with ATi's higher end card?

My point was I would wait to see MSRP and benchmarks from places like Anandtech.
 
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clok1966

Golden Member
Jul 6, 2004
1,395
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Sorry I think i did a very poor job of getting across what i wanted to say.
I didnt want to appear a ATI fan boy (I'm not, best bang for buck fan boy) so I maybe phrased that all wrong.

5870 is 10% slower (roughly by estimates) then the GTX480 same speed as the GTX470
295 is same speed as 480


To me it appears the 5870 (old ati tech compared to new NV tech) is pretty much a match, it "appears" NV is is putting a "new" product out that is basicly the same as the old ATI product.

I know something can be said for Future proofing, newer tech, longer life. Driver revisions and all that. And of course the price points all matter in this and as far as I can tell none have been released.

I'm guessing (assumpiton is evil, but till prices are out i have to go by the past) the 10% gain will translate into a $5-600 card.. so for $200 i can get 10% gain? In a card that is larger compared to the last gen cards?

As I mentioned a new card is in the works, more assuption on my part but it sure looks like waiting till new NV cards come out (anybody heard dates?) so old card prices go down some (if they do as to me it looks like a wash for ATI right now).

Only the blistering edge of E-penisdom will want to spend the buck for the new cards. I think my 5870 pick may still be corrrect, now its just down to maybe waiting on prices to change with the release of the new NV cards..


So am I still way off, or maybe getting closer (assuming and guessing till real numbers come out)?

And thanks, I did not know the 295 was a multi GPU card, i was thinking it was just a Factory OC 285 (but i guess a 285 is a OC 280, i should have known better). I quite looking at cards hard when I bought my 4870....

-edit- wow like 10 more posts while i posted this..
 
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Kakkoii

Senior member
Jun 5, 2009
379
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0
Card isnt even released and we are already on damage control mode?

I want to see you use the same argument for AMD when this happens

Btw, the troll that everyone loves to bash, Charlie, turned out to be right huh? How unexpected... /roll
He was vaguely right about it being delayed. That's about it lol. He threw so much other bullshit around it negates being right about that. And it was a good gamble on it being delayed, since it was a new architecture and TSMC was already having troubles.
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,939
6
81
He was vaguely right about it being delayed. That's about it lol. He threw so much other bullshit around it negates being right about that. And it was a good gamble on it being delayed, since it was a new architecture and TSMC was already having troubles.
He's not been wrong about a lot of other things... yet.
Until power, performance and availability are actually released (only 2 and a bit weeks left), there's still a lot Charlie could be right about, but equally he could be wrong about.
 

ScorcherDarkly

Senior member
Aug 7, 2009
450
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0
I havent been following closely so does anyone know if Nvidia is releasing something like the 5970 right out of the gate or is it gonna be several months until a part like that is released.
This is all based on rumors, speculation and rough guesstimate calculations.

Rumors right now put the TDP of the 480 at 280W and the 470 at 225. Double that for a dual GPU card and you're at 560 and 450. In order to sell the card under the PCI-E specification, the total TDP has to be under 300W.

To get to 300W, they'd have to shave at least a third of the current power consumption of a dual 470 board, which roughly translates to 1/3 of each chip on the board. In that case, a dual 470 part would only end up being 4/3s of a single chip (2 chips times 2/3s). Take 95% (the relative performance of the 470 to the 5870 by these benchmarks) times 4/3, you get ~127%. So with two crippled chips, you get a ~12-17% boost over a 480. Notice that the difference between the 5870 and 5970 is ~40%. There's no way people are going to pay the premium for a dual board that only gets a 15% boost over the top end single GPU. That doesn't even take into account what you'd have to do to cool and power the card, which would likely be a nightmare. So, no, they aren't likely to make a dual chip part until they can do a respin of the chips to solve some power issues, which will take several months.
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,207
216
106
So the GPU pecking order (strictly performance) would seem to be:

5970
GTX480
5870
GTX470
5850

That's pretty much in line with what we've been hearing lately. Now all we need is the most important piece of information, price.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
479
126
This is all based on rumors, speculation and rough guesstimate calculations.

Rumors right now put the TDP of the 480 at 280W and the 470 at 225. Double that for a dual GPU card and you're at 560 and 450. In order to sell the card under the PCI-E specification, the total TDP has to be under 300W.

To get to 300W, they'd have to shave at least a third of the current power consumption of a dual 470 board, which roughly translates to 1/3 of each chip on the board. In that case, a dual 470 part would only end up being 4/3s of a single chip (2 chips times 2/3s). Take 95% (the relative performance of the 470 to the 5870 by these benchmarks) times 4/3, you get ~127%. So with two crippled chips, you get a ~12-17% boost over a 480. Notice that the difference between the 5870 and 5970 is ~40%. There's no way people are going to pay the premium for a dual board that only gets a 15% boost over the top end single GPU. That doesn't even take into account what you'd have to do to cool and power the card, which would likely be a nightmare. So, no, they aren't likely to make a dual chip part until they can do a respin of the chips to solve some power issues, which will take several months.
You forget, you dont double the power consumption of a gtx470 card. Its 1 gtx470 card + 1 gpu. This is a single card not the old sandwich type.
So you need to know how much power the extra gpu pulls.
I think they could fit a dual gtx470 in a 300 watt envelope.
 

happy medium

Lifer
Jun 8, 2003
14,387
479
126
So the GPU pecking order (strictly performance) would seem to be:

5970
GTX480
5870
GTX470
5850

That's pretty much in line with what we've been hearing lately. Now all we need is the most important piece of information, price.
Well with mature drivers.. and in May of this year I expect to see.

GTX495
5970
5950
gtx480
5890
gtx470
5870
gtx460
5850

Same as last round.
 

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