Nvidia delays GTX Titan Z - 790 incoming?

[Grooveriding]

They had to reprint the boxes to say "Second fastest GPU on the market."

A dual 780ti card could be faster than 295X2 in many cases, but I think the cooling solution on the 295X2 makes it very hard for nvidia to release a dual gpu air-cooled card that can clock high enough to compete against it. Maybe they are re-tooling a cooling solution. For a card that was strictly meant to be CUDA oriented, high clock speeds wouldn't be necessary for DP performance. For gaming they would obviously need to be.

Would be interesting if they put out their own liquid cooled reference card. I saw some recent benchmarks from Linus Tech Tips of 780ti SLI vs 295X2, both overclocked, and the 295X2 was faster in the games they tested. It was only two or three games though. 295X2 is actually faster than reference 290X CF because of the superior cooling on it. Titanz is going to pushing off the heat of two full GK110 cores and would of not been running at the same speeds as single cores on independent cards.

Would be cool to see two reference water cooled cards out from both of them. Obviously with 295X2, as a gaming card titanz becomes a farce with that price and less performance.

 

[realibrad]

huh.

It almost like Nvidia wants to change as much as possible, but is constrained by the consumers desire to pay as little as possible and ability to choose a competing product.
Maybe out of Nvidia's greed, they will try and undercut the products offered by their competitors product and take AMD's profits.

What a weird world.

 

[Mand]

There's that conventional wisdom popping up again!

And there's your misrepresentation of it popping up again!

What you quoted is 100% accurate. They did design Titan, and now Titan Z, with CUDA developers in mind. That's not, as you seem to assume, the same as stating that it was designed with only CUDA developers in mind.

 

[OCGuy]

Wow, is it just me or are the AMD fans out in force and really only contributing derogatory comments. This started out a very simple question by the op. No need for the defamation. Some of you sound like you were legitimately hurt by the proposal of a $3000 Titan. I mean, really? If they want to charge that they can, it doesn't affect you personally. No need to get bent out of shape.

Welcome to the forums, Sims. While you are pointing out what most AT'ers know and understand, doing so is a path to nowhere and will only lead to e-problems for you here.

It is kind of like pointing out that Grandpa just soiled himself at the Thanksgiving dinner table. Everyone realizes it, but the person who actually brings it up will be the one who is treated like they did something to cause the stench.

:thumbsup:

 

[caswow]

Wow, is it just me or are the AMD fans out in force and really only contributing derogatory comments. This started out a very simple question by the op. No need for the defamation. Some of you sound like you were legitimately hurt by the proposal of a $3000 Titan. I mean, really? If they want to charge that they can, it doesn't affect you personally. No need to get bent out of shape.

actually its because the nforce(hah) was trying to justify the price. thats what you get when you want to screw people over with an 3k price tag.

 

[blackened23]

Welcome to the forums, Sims. While you are pointing out what most AT'ers know and understand, doing so is a path to nowhere and will only lead to e-problems for you here.

It is kind of like pointing out that Grandpa just soiled himself at the Thanksgiving dinner table. Everyone realizes it, but the person who actually brings it up will be the one who is treated like they did something to cause the stench.

:thumbsup:

LOL. So true.

It is interesting to see some of the characterizations of this card, it's almost as if some are trying too hard. While this is not a card I would ever buy for gaming, i'd say that NV has some decent business sense given that they have nearly 67% and climbing desktop dGPU market share and over 90% of design wins/commanding lead in mobile dGPUs. That's just the facts. I guess NV has some business sense after all.

Now I don't agree with the marketing with the gaming angle. Nvidia should drop that, really - NV's presentation introduced it as the "supercomputer under your desk" which would probably be a better marketing angle as opposed to gaming. So I don't think the gaming angle was the best thing. I also don't think any reasonable gamer will buy it unless they don't care about budget. I certainly wouldn't buy it for gaming. I highly doubt anyone on this forum should buy it for gaming. In fact, I would say that a true GTX 790 would have just been a more interesting product for me - but a GTX 790 isn't going to happen, apparently. The Titan Z being that it isn't solely a gaming card, isn't for me.

But the card will sell just fine as priced to the sector that wants to buy it. CUDA developers. Yes, the card will game. Yes the card does more than game. Yes, the card was designed for CUDA development in mind since it is nearly 55 times faster than the 780ti for CUDA development and also faster than the K6000 quadro card. And yes, for the 100th time, gaming should not be mentioned anywhere in the marketing of this card. Anyway...i'll echo the sentiment expressed above. This happens for a reason here, but regardless, the card will sell just fine. Despite the marketing stuff.......Prosumer level professionals aren't idiots and they will just buy what works best for them, regardless of what a forum or NV's marketing might say about gaming on the Titan Z.

 

[snoochiyou]

is good forum post

all amd with nvidia fanboy boo hoo and fight

tell us more blackshill ocfanboy mondofan

^^

Get out of here.
-- stahlhart

 

[wand3r3r]

Wow, is it just me or are the AMD fans out in force and really only contributing derogatory comments. This started out a very simple question by the op. No need for the defamation. Some of you sound like you were legitimately hurt by the proposal of a $3000 Titan. I mean, really? If they want to charge that they can, it doesn't affect you personally. No need to get bent out of shape.

Grooveriding, your comment is also just way of base..." Now due to the 295X2 they'd know they were morons as well because it would be twice the price and slower than another available card. If you're going to try to sell a $3000 card for gaming, it's going to have to be the fastest one out there."

First of all, there are no benchmarks or anything like this for the Titan Z so how can you claim a slower card. Your just trolling, please don't.

How about you hold off on all the slander, both against green and red, until we have an actual product release.

You don't need to be a fan of a brand to see the absurd "gaming" positioning of the titanic z.

NV talking about gaming and double the price of the card which will actually lose unless they pull a rabbit out of their hat and bump the clocks up and use full chips. Since crossfire generally scales superbly they will be hard pressed to beat the 295x2 which appears to have came as a complete surprise when we all expected cut down chips to handle the heat.

It's not slander to diss a $3k card which will might even lose to the overpriced 295x2 at $1500.

Even if it would be pumped up and barely win over the 295x2 it's still not going to be realistic compared to it's pricing. We know the cooler is already at 80c with one card, it will be hard pressed to use that same cooler with 2 fully enabled gpus and typically the NV dual card solution has been slightly cut back and/or downclocked.

This is just obvious and doesn't make anyone a non-green fanboy since we are using common sense and the consumer pov, not the stockholder or fanboy pov. We have seen enough launches to have a very good estimate of the titanicz, and even if NV is ramping up the clocks with fully enabled chips (which we know where they stand, and how the scale), we still know where it lies, flat on it's face gaming wise.

I for one am happy nv appears to be losing face with the $3k rip off card. If they sell it as a cuda card and drop the gaming then I could care less since I'm not a prospective buyer then. I wish the 295x2 would drop in price since I consider it a rip off too, just a lot smaller then the titanic z.

 

[Skurge]

Complaining about it over the internet is one possible way to get nV to either make it cheaper of make it better.

We all ragged on AMD for months about the poor cooling on the 290X, and we got the 295X2. Also don't tell me about how it's cheaper and faster than a K6000. You know what else is cheaper and faster than a K6000? 2 Titan Blacks and they do not cost U$3000. So there is really no excuse for it to cost 50% more than 2 Titan Blacks. Which it is probably slower than. Titan Z was announced first and still MIA. Not sure what is going on there.

 

[Meekers]

After the release of the 290s NVIDIA made a point of mocking AMD's sub-preforming coolers, and they got many reviewers to jump on. Hardocp even mentioned that NVIDIA reps ridiculed AMD's cooling and were able to get reviewers to make it a focal point. I think that they thought that the 295x2 would be even worse and would have to be severely downclocked and would have similar heat and acoustic issues.

Because of this they thought they could get away with $3000 for an extreme halo part because it would have a healthy lead due to better cooling and would look like an engineering marvel next to an air cooled 295x2.

Unfortunately, it appears that AMD managed something no one thought they could do. If NVIDIA proceeded to release at $3000 their plan would completely backfire and it would look like they were charging double for a worse card. Even if the $3000 could be justified for people using it for compute, it would be destroyed in reviews compared to the 295x2.

You can say gaming does not matter all you want, but at the end of the day the card is going to be reviewed and benchmarked against a 295x2 by gaming sites. If it was released as is, even PCPer would be hard pressed not to give it a poor review. We will have to see how NVIDIA responds.

 

[el etro]

Solution for Nvidia: Design the card with the better PCB they can build, and offer a WC edition for a $100 plus. $3100 for killer performance, not bad.

 

[24601]

Complaining about it over the internet is one possible way to get nV to either make it cheaper of make it better.

We all ragged on AMD for months about the poor cooling on the 290X, and we got the 295X2. Also don't tell me about how it's cheaper and faster than a K6000. You know what else is cheaper and faster than a K6000? 2 Titan Blacks and they do not cost U$3000. So there is really no excuse for it to cost 50% more than 2 Titan Blacks. Which it is probably slower than. Titan Z was announced first and still MIA. Not sure what is going on there.

295x2 was going to be a hybrid cooler from far before the 290x even was soft-launched.

sushiwarrior had an argument with me about Vesuvius a very very long time ago.

OTOH these cards are totally 100% pointless now that 290x is ~400 USD on ebay and R9 290 is ~250-300 USD on ebay.

 

[Kenmitch]

Titan Z was announced first and still MIA. Not sure what is going on there.

Isn't it the norm these days to rain on the other guys parade. Maybe tbe TitanZ was announced too early in its production cycle. Let's face reality. Anybody who prefers nvidia and wants to play around on the upper end of performance will wait it out. Maybe delayed to up the clocks? Change cooling solution? Time will tell.

AMD did a good job on the 295x2's design. Based on previouse cards one woulld not tbink tbey had the capability.

 

[3DVagabond]

It's not JUST for gaming, which is what "everyone" has been saying. Something that is just for gaming would have been cheaper.

This is a hybrid between a gaming card and a compute card, and it ends up being a hybrid between a gaming card's price and a compute card's price. Of course, it's far simpler to just leap on it and demonize a company for offering something you'll never buy, which is what the internet is truly for.

Why are "compute cards" more expensive than "gaming cards"? It's because of the support offered to the professional market above what is offered to the consumer market. This card does not get the extra support that the pro market gets. There is no justification for making it more expensive.

Tahiti is fully DP capable but there is no premium attached. Because they don't offer the additional support if you buy a 7970/280X/7990 like they do if you buy any Firepro card.

It's the old Mexican shell game. You keep believing that there's a pea under one of the shells so you keep playing. There's not though and you'll never win.


As far as the subject of why the delay? Probably because with the air cooling solution the clocks need to be brought down too much to compete with the R9 295X2 in performance. Hopefully they'll can the Titan-Z, along with it's price tag, and release a GTX-780X2 ti instead. A $3000 card isn't going to do anything for us consumers except drive prices up. $1500 is BS from AMD, never mind more.

 

[Lepton87]

This thread is very informative, I've just learned that SLI is completely irrelevant when discussing dual GPU gaming cards made by NV. Previously I thought that how Dual GPU scaling is implemented and how well it is supported is make or break for such cards. How silly of me to have thought that. I have to admit that NV is good at fleecing their customers. When I bought my Titan I left my brain at home. I just flushed 350$ down the toilet the moment I bought it. I somehow got the impression that GK110 will remain exclusive to Titan for at least a while. The card is a total waste of money compared to other GK110 cards. TitanZ is even more of a waste. You may say that it's a hybrid card, both for gaming and CUDA development, it might be true but how many people actually buy those for both? Most people Titans them for gaming. It is made apparent by the fact that by default its full DP capability is not even active, you have to toggle a switch in the drivers to enable full DP capability . Some buy them for CUDA development but how many people buy them who routinely use them for both? I don't know anyone who uses it for both. I won't be fooled again into paying professional prices for consumer cards.

 

[OCGuy]

2X 780Ti 6GB and you have the best dual-GPU solution as well as the cheapest of the halo-setups.

Not a bad deal, who knows what NV and AMD were thinking.

 

[3DVagabond]

2X 780Ti 6GB and you have the best dual-GPU solution as well as the cheapest of the halo-setups.

Not a bad deal, who knows what NV and AMD were thinking.

High praise considering it hasn't even been released yet. :\

 

[Silverforce11]

2x 780Ti 6GB with a 240mm radiator loop hybrid cooler. NV will be able say "look at that RAD its twice as big, size matters! $3,000 is a bargain!". Done deal. It will be herald as the next coming of J... and sold out everywhere.

 

[OCGuy]

High praise considering it hasn't even been released yet. :\

???

Oh....I am speaking of 780ti 6GB SLI.

MSI custom OC (3GB) cards are available for < $650, which makes you scratch your head at these dual cards.

However, the real blame goes to TSMC.

 

[Keysplayr]

High praise considering it hasn't even been released yet. :\

Whad'ya mean?

 

[rtsurfer]

2x 780Ti 6GB with a 240mm radiator loop hybrid cooler. NV will be able say "look at that RAD its twice as big, size matters! $3,000 is a bargain!". Done deal. It will be herald as the next coming of J... and sold out everywhere.

Couldn't have said better myself.
This prediction is too perfect.

 

[3DVagabond]

Whad'ya mean?

Has the 6gig 780 ti been released? I know we are supposed to be getting 780 and 780 ti 6gig cards, but I haven't seen them yet. Did I miss their release and subsequent reviews?

 

[Silverforce11]

However, the real blame goes to TSMC.

TSMC isn't to blame for the ridiculous prices, they can be blamed for a lot of things, but for a $3,000 price tag on Titan Z? That's solely due to JH wanting a new private jet... fleet.

 

[Wild Thing]

2X 780Ti 6GB and you have the best dual-GPU solution as well as the cheapest of the halo-setups.

Not a bad deal, who knows what NV and AMD were thinking.

How's that gonna work?
Reviews show 780Ti SLI getting clobbered by 295 X2,I can't imagine 6Gb of vram closing that gap.Not without a lot higher clocks anyway.

After plenty of people ran out and bought $1K Titan's it seems JHH figured enough would be seduced by an OMG $3K!11! "super card" to do the same.
Bit of a #facepalm moment by NV marketing I reckon.

 

[Saylick]

Why are "compute cards" more expensive than "gaming cards"? It's because of the support offered to the professional market above what is offered to the consumer market. This card does not get the extra support that the pro market gets. There is no justification for making it more expensive.

Tahiti is fully DP capable but there is no premium attached. Because they don't offer the additional support if you buy a 7970/280X/7990 like they do if you buy any Firepro card.

It's the old Mexican shell game. You keep believing that there's a pea under one of the shells so you keep playing. There's not though and you'll never win.


As far as the subject of why the delay? Probably because with the air cooling solution the clocks need to be brought down too much to compete with the R9 295X2 in performance. Hopefully they'll can the Titan-Z, along with it's price tag, and release a GTX-780X2 ti instead. A $3000 card isn't going to do anything for us consumers except drive prices up. $1500 is BS from AMD, never mind more.

This. 100% This. The notion that anything in the Titan line-up is worth the price premium should be immediately dispelled in my honest opinion. This isn't like the camera industry where paying more for more features is justifiable; professional GPUs are worthless without the professional support/drivers that comes with the purchase of such card. Analogy wise, it would be the same as buying a DSLR with a professional-grade image sensor but with most of the professional-grade features removed/disabled.

Has anyone started a poll to see if ANY of our Titan owners actually use their card for reasons outside of gaming? And if they do, how much of their processing time is spent running CUDA code? I'd be willing to bet that the numbers would be dismally low. I understand that there's people out there who are willing to spend top dollar to get the best performance that can be had, and that's okay. What's absurd is to justify the price as being market value simply because nVidia slapped on more RAM and enabled some features which wouldn't be utilized in most of the usage scenarios to begin with.

The real issue, however, isn't so much as nVidia charging absurd prices for cards most people wouldn't buy but that they are attempting to make this "prosumer" price bracket the new high-end, which results in the inflated prices we see today. The high-end used to be $500-$550 but it is now $700+. With the way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if GM204 was released at $600 (Oh look, it's faster AND cheaper than the 780 Ti. Therefore it must be a good deal) and GM204 is released at $900 (Oh look, it's faster AND cheaper than the Titan Black. Therefore it must be a good deal). R295X2 probably would be $1200 if it weren't for the ridiculous price hike we see today.