Nvidia delays GTX Titan Z - 790 incoming?

[Mondozei]

Sweclockers (who else?) are now reporting that Nvidia is delaying Titan Z. No specific reason given but the rumor is that its because it isn't seen as powerful enough to match 295X2 given the extreme price tag.

Even if "everyone" said it wasn't for gaming, this is what Nvidia wrote on their own blog in conjunction with the announcement:

Built around two Kepler GPUs and 12GB of dedicated frame buffer memory, TITAN Z is engineered for next-generation 5K and multi-monitor gaming
[...]
So if you want to build the ultimate ultra-high definition gaming rig that can harness the power of quad GPUs working in tandem, TITAN Z is the perfect graphics card

So, yeah, "only for cuda developers", right?

The question naturally arises, will we see a 790 instead?
That'd be the only logical choice.

Sweclockers are saying that Nvidia isn't withdrawing the card permanently, only delaying it until further notice. They could either try to lower the costs or release a 790. Or maybe both.

 

[Gloomy]

My guess is the cooling solution isn't quite as robust as the 295x2, which leads to a card that is too slow because of the subsequent throttling it has to do to stay within sane temp/TDP limits.

They're both 500w cards. I think AMD has a huge advantage because of the cooling solution. I don't think most expected the 295X2 to be so... not throttled :|

 

[Mondozei]

My guess is the cooling solution isn't quite as robust as the 295x2, which leads to a card that is too slow because of the subsequent throttling it has to do to stay within sane temp/TDP limits.

They're both 500w cards. I think AMD has a huge advantage because of the cooling solution. I don't think most expected the 295X2 to be so... not throttled :|

But isn't Nvidia's reference cooling solutions pretty damn good?
It is hard for me to believe that they botched the cooling solution. I personally think its more due to the fact that Nvidia simply didn't think that AMD could make such a good card as 295X2, i.e. they got arrogant.

And then they got creamed.

 

[Silverforce11]

The R295X2 was a shock, as we were all expecting neutered chips running at a lower clock. Except its full chips with a small OC and it runs cool and quiet.

Delay = might change the cooler and use a similar Asetek one. Maybe with a 240mm rad, worthy of the $3000 premium. ;p

 

[Mand]

Even if "everyone" said it wasn't for gaming, this is what Nvidia wrote on their own blog in conjunction with the announcement:

It's not JUST for gaming, which is what "everyone" has been saying. Something that is just for gaming would have been cheaper.

This is a hybrid between a gaming card and a compute card, and it ends up being a hybrid between a gaming card's price and a compute card's price. Of course, it's far simpler to just leap on it and demonize a company for offering something you'll never buy, which is what the internet is truly for.

 

[f1sherman]

The R295X2 was a shock, as we were all expecting neutered chips running at a lower clock. Except its full chips with a small OC and it runs cool and quiet.

Delay = might change the cooler and use a similar Asetek one. Maybe with a 240mm rad, worthy of the $3000 premium. ;p

Come now, we all knew it would run 1000+ MHz the moment we learned about hybrid cooling

Its Temps and dB that are better than expected!

Delay?
Simple: Releasing slower&more expensive than competition would not be welcomed by the press. No matter how much they trumpet "for professionals".
Because the fact is, same like Titan, these cards will be bought by gamers also, as they are not pure-PRO. Not to mention it's marketed in the same manner too.

 

[Mondozei]

It's not JUST for gaming,

Re-read the post. I never said it was "just" for gaming, but I was challenging the conventional view that it was more or less only a card for CUDA developers.

Nvidia's own words are contrary to that position.

 

[96Firebird]

Re-read the post. I never said it was "just" for gaming, but I was challenging the conventional view that it was more or less only a card for CUDA developers.

Except that wasn't the conventional view...

Mand hit it on the head.

 

[toyota]

Except that wasn't the conventional view...

Mand hit it on the head.

no most people were actually saying that it wasn't for gaming. I had to link to Nvidia's quote many many times just to prove to people that they were marketing this as a gaming card too.

 

[caswow]

Except that wasn't the conventional view...

Mand hit it on the head.

what does the titan z qualify as semi pro? nothing. its 2 downclocked gk110.

 

[artvscommerce]

It seems like if it has the name "GeForce" on it, the primary purpose is going to be for gaming, even if they designed it with CUDA developers in mind.

 

[Stuka87]

But isn't Nvidia's reference cooling solutions pretty damn good?
It is hard for me to believe that they botched the cooling solution. I personally think its more due to the fact that Nvidia simply didn't think that AMD could make such a good card as 295X2, i.e. they got arrogant.

And then they got creamed.

Their reference cooler is fine for a single GPU solution. But the 295X has a pretty awesome cooling setup. Its stays cool and quiet. A dual GPU GK110 is going to need an equally good cooler to prevent throttling and justify being double the price.

 

[tviceman]

My guess is the cooling solution isn't quite as robust as the 295x2, which leads to a card that is too slow because of the subsequent throttling it has to do to stay within sane temp/TDP limits.

They're both 500w cards. I think AMD has a huge advantage because of the cooling solution. I don't think most expected the 295X2 to be so... not throttled :|

Crossfire generally scales better when it works, but the titan-z should draw way less power than the 295x (just like the gtx690 drew way less power than the hd7990) because Nvidia bins the living daylights out of dual-GPU cards (on top of other PCB / power delivery efficiency improvements) thus massively increasing the perf/watt. However, that still can't justify the extreme price premium.

Nvidia needs to drop the price and just market the card as a prosumer. Forget talking about gaming unless they want to focus entirely on perf/w on how much quicker they usually are in regards to multi-gpu support in games. When it works, AMD's multi-GPU currently scales better so AMD wins the ultimate halo card that no one should be buying anyways.

 

[OCGuy]

There is a whole lot of speculation there with no substance. These two cards are such low-volume halo parts, that they will sell all they make at some point or another, with the price being the only unknown.

Nvidia isn't going to nix a part that they had already designed and marketed, just because of the 295x2. If they were worried about relative price/performance, they could just lower the price from $3k. There is quite a lot of room between $1500 and $3,000 to play with if they wanted to.

I don't think either card will necessarily "fly of the shelves", as they both are overpriced compared to 2x PCBs within their own product lineup.

 

[blackened23]

I agree that it shouldn't be marketed for gaming, the card is designed for both CUDA development and can also do gaming thanks to having access to Geforce drivers. The card actually is actually better and faster than the 780ti by over 50 times for CUDA development, and in many tasks will out-do the quadro K6000 for CUDA development. Conversely, the K6000 can't realistically be used as a gaming card and it does not have access to Geforce drivers. So the Titan line is sort of a hybrid gaming/prosumer card. Whereas Quadro is strictly prosumer.

Yet in the end, i'm pretty sure NV won't say you can't buy it for this or you can't buy it for that. Generally speaking, consumers aren't complete morons. Or we could just pretend that customers just buy into marketing hook line and sinker nonstop....i'd say that generally is not the case. If you want to buy it for gaming, even though you'd be stupid to do so, go for it. If you want to buy it for CUDA development as a card that is cheaper and faster than the K6000 for the same thing, go for it. The professionals that can use it for that, know what it can do - They know what card benefits what.

Those who can benefit from the CUDA development capabilities are professionals and they know that the card benefits them - they can and will buy it. The Titan outsold the GTX 690 per NV so i'm pretty certain a sizable chunk of that was for prosumer purchases. Frankly, I found it rather shocking that the original Titan outsold the GTX 690 by a large margin. I'd think a large chunk of those sales were not for gaming.

Anyway, I would agree with the sentiment that NV should just drop the gaming related marketing for the card. Seems kinda stupid. I mean during the Titan Z presentation, JHH came out and basically stated "this card is for having a supercomputer under your desk". He didn't utter a word about gaming that I remember, but NV's marketing did. Whatever. The segment of consumers that can benefit from the additional capabilities of the Titan know what's up and they'll buy it regardless of what marketing does or what forum brand fandom might try to suggest.

 

[Silverforce11]

There is an advantage with the AIO, all that heat is dump out your case.

2x reference R290X = throttle, noisy, hot and dumping a lot of heat in the case via vents on top of the card.

2x custom open air R290X = a nightmare to keep cool in a closed rig.

 

[moonbogg]

Face it. $3,000.00 is completely stupid for two GK110's. They are just testing the limits of people's stupidity. We passed the idiot test with Titan, so they are going to try harder this time. Twice the cost of the AMD card? Please. The word "gaming" should never be included in the same sentence as Titan Z with the 295x2 lurking near by.
If its a compute card, fine. Lose the GFarce branding and sell it as a compute card.

 

[Grooveriding]

Only morons would of bought it for gaming for $3000. Now due to the 295X2 they'd know they were morons as well because it would be twice the price and slower than another available card. If you're going to try to sell a $3000 card for gaming, it's going to have to be the fastest one out there.

I doubt there is anything 790 wise, at least not canning the titanz to go with that. If they already had the design and working cards to show, they were already producing them and getting them ready.

The whole argument of titan, titan black, titan z being dual purpose is hogwash. You either buy it as a pro card period, for gaming because you are a fringe that is running 3 monitors of 1440p+ resolutions or because you just want to spend more money than you have to for less performance than you'll get out of an aftermarket 780ti or pair of them.

The only time any titan card made any sense for gaming outside of the above instances was before there was a gtx 780 or 780ti and titan was the only gk110 card available.

295X2 made titanz look plain retarded as a gaming choice.

 

[Phynaz]

Somebody at Nvidia figured out that producing a $3K graphics card for gaming was utter stupidity.

 

[rtsurfer]

Crossfire generally scales better when it works, but the titan-z should draw way less power than the 295x (just like the gtx690 drew way less power than the hd7990) because Nvidia bins the living daylights out of dual-GPU cards (on top of other PCB / power delivery efficiency improvements) thus massively increasing the perf/watt. However, that still can't justify the extreme price premium.

Nvidia needs to drop the price and just market the card as a prosumer. Forget talking about gaming unless they want to focus entirely on perf/w on how much quicker they usually are in regards to multi-gpu support in games. When it works, AMD's multi-GPU currently scales better so AMD wins the ultimate halo card that no one should be buying anyways.

Like SLI works everywhere & is globally supported.
Am I right.?
Just recently SLI received a 64% boost in Total War: Rome II.
Because SLI was broken in it until today.
A game that came out 1 1/2 years ago.

Infraction issued for thread crapping.
-- stahlhart

 

[Subyman]

They had to reprint the boxes to say "Second fastest GPU on the market."

 

[SimsReaper]

Wow, is it just me or are the AMD fans out in force and really only contributing derogatory comments. This started out a very simple question by the op. No need for the defamation. Some of you sound like you were legitimately hurt by the proposal of a $3000 Titan. I mean, really? If they want to charge that they can, it doesn't affect you personally. No need to get bent out of shape.

Grooveriding, your comment is also just way of base..." Now due to the 295X2 they'd know they were morons as well because it would be twice the price and slower than another available card. If you're going to try to sell a $3000 card for gaming, it's going to have to be the fastest one out there."

First of all, there are no benchmarks or anything like this for the Titan Z so how can you claim a slower card. Your just trolling, please don't.

How about you hold off on all the slander, both against green and red, until we have an actual product release.

 

[Wild Thing]

The thing is NVidia is gonna look kinda "me too" if they have to bring out a radiator closed loop system to keep a dual chip cool enough to compete with 295 X2.
Twin 780 chips on a single PCB is going to be hot if they clock it fast enough to beat the 295.

 

[Mondozei]

It seems like if it has the name "GeForce" on it, the primary purpose is going to be for gaming, even if they designed it with CUDA developers in mind.

There's that conventional wisdom popping up again!

 

[Mondozei]

Their reference cooler is fine for a single GPU solution. But the 295X has a pretty awesome cooling setup. Its stays cool and quiet. A dual GPU GK110 is going to need an equally good cooler to prevent throttling and justify being double the price.

Yeah, for gaming purposes, absolutely. But if you only think it is about CUDA developers, that wouldn't be such a strong argument.

Either case. It's remarkable how much Nvidia botched this launch.

So will they now release a GTX 790 instead or are they going back to the drawing board with Titan Z and either upgrading the cooling to justify the price(and then lower it a little). Or maybe, as I suggested, both.