I really don't care enough to chart how every single GPU ever made is cooled by every after market cooler ever made. *If* I was as worried about noise as you seem to be I'd just go watercooled, but that's just how I see it.
The point is, people here are made aware of fermi's heat&noise and some are apparently turned off by that. I see you are not one of them as you claim loudness of high performance video cards should be taken as granted, but you can't just shove that down everyone's throat.
Like I said, there is a very easy fix to 5850's already much lower noise and heat if you must have it. As for fermi, not so sure. I have seen some nv fan posting here claiming the NV has put a very good cooler on fermi, and there is no reason why I shouldn't believe that. If that's true, it sounds like fermi is already nearing its limits for air cooling if you value quietness. The way I see it, the aftermarket coolers that work for 58x0 series take up extra slots, spit back all the hot air back inside the case. Not the most elegant solution, but it seems to be working without issues given the thermal output of those GPUs. GTX480 is a bigger chip, consumes more power and it is hotter at stock voltage/clocks, that's the fact. (please stop referring to the $1100 monster, we know the card is overclocked, hot and thus loud - that's why it doesn't get much attention) All that heat is gotta go somewhere right? If you can still get away without extra cooling for case that adds noise, it would be a great news. You might not care, but I am quite interested in that personally.
We are in agreement about the ultimate solution to it in water cooling, but I have also stated that WC brings its share of grief/worries and is going to limit the potential group of adopters even further.
8800GT pushes over 70FPS in L4D, 40FPS in HAWX, 40FPS in ME2 and 45FPS in Wolf- all games newer then Crysis(all 16x10) at max settings. Just throwing that out there as some examples of cards of that era not being quite as outdated as some people make out. Even core gamers are still doing quite well with that level of performance, it is overwhelmingly tech enthusiasts, not mainstream gamers, who are using the higher end hardware.
You are correct about the older parts being more capable than they are believed to be. What I was trying to tell you was that you shouldn't rely on outlier cases to misrepresent the the whole evergreen vs fermi heat generation thing. Looking back again, I got a bit confused there between my own post and your reply. I want you to read this part again:
I am pretty sure you knew exactly what I meant when I said that particular $1100 card isn't to be taken as the representative case for the entire higher end (5850 and higher) evergreen lineup. I somehow get a feeling you are gonna try to attack me on the "higher end" thingy again, sorry for the lack of a better word.
that's what I really meant to say. "Mainstream" in my first post referred to the majority, or non-overclocked vanilla cards, as opposed to overclocked parts. Hence my explannation "in the enthusiast sense", but I realize it was very poorly worded. My bad.
A factory overclocked card specifically tailored to meet speciallized needs, not a mainstream (in the enthusiast sense) part that would comprise the bukl of the sales.
Browse the numbers for the antiquated 8800GT and its' terrible performance by today's standards. I wasn't splitting hairs on semantics, I used a card that is very reasonably playable using any game you want to throw at it(I know the 8800GT is faster then the GT240, but not by a huge amount). That is very much what I'm getting at. You can play any game out with a GT240. Yes, you will have to back down some settings and the resolution a bit, but it certainly will work and deliver playable levels of performance. The semantics issue is one of your creating, you narrowly defined what is acceptable and reasonable which for your particular choices is perfectly fine. Taking that same very narrow standard and applying it to other people is where I take issue. You can certainly argue that Fermi is too hot, others could very well argue that the 5850 is too hot- even other gamers. It's all about where you draw that line. Same with noise, the line this generation is different then last generation as ATi is making far quieter cards, why that changes anything I have no idea but on these forums it does.
Well then maybe AT isn't the right forum for you. I don't see anything wrong with a bunch of people coming to a consensus for what's considered too hot and loud for them, like it or not. You say 48xx cards were loud too, but fermi is much louder than any of those on the absolute scale, perhaps past a tolerable threshold to some? In the future, please keep your comparisons at least within the same generation, or competing models.
We see they were arguing in this very thread whether ATi meant to pit 5870 or 5870 against the 480, but no one here is making an absurd comparison to a GT240. I think when people put up threads about 58x0s and fermis, they are expecting that level of performance to be even relevant. Most definitely you could stil game on a GT240 if your standards are low and you are willing to compromise, but I doubt that's what people are looking for in this current gen card discussions. My contention is that our main focus in most recent discussions is latest cards, within which we may split ways on what's acceptable for factors outside of pure performance like power&heat&noise; not the other way around, it's not like most people create threads on the coolest running cards and trying to reap the best performance out of it. That's why you don't ever see anyone talking about GT240s anymore. I hope you take your own advice and stop calling everyone bigots for counting fermi out for heat&noise.
I'm aware of one person on this forum that has always been very vocal about his concerns with the noise vid cards make, BFG10K. He has held this standard for many years no matter who had the loudest boards, his perspective I take as honest. What I see now are a whole bunch of posters that didn't seem to care at all until ATi had a quiet part, then it became an issue. That I do have a problem with. I've been on these forums for a long time now, my Oct '99 reg date is only when the FuseTalk forums went live when the boards swapped over- this round is worse then the NV30 or any other generation in terms of people griping about noise and from what I have seen, it isn't nearly as bad as that was(the 2900 peolpe seemed to be fine with on the noise front oddly enough).
You think he is honest because he doesn't care about noise? Why can't it be other way around, can't someone dislike loud cards and still be honest?
1) In case you haven't noticed, people were putting on aftermarket coolers on 4850s, modifying fan profiles for cooler & queiter operation. I can't say exactly what percentage of them did, but I was one of them.
2) All sources point to fermi being louder than 4850. Maybe it is loud enough to matter more now?
Hey, I moved here just before AGN3D went belly up, so I guess I have been here long enough myself; this is my new account since I was gone serving in the military in my own country. Though I haven't kept up with how people responded to every generation of cards, I just don't think it is a black and white kind of hypocricy as you describe as far as 48xx and fermi is concerned. True, some might be bitter over what nv is doing with physx and their twimtbp thing and really want to lash it out on nv. Not all of us though, and reviewers were the first to point out fermi being noticeably loud. I for one wasn't fine with 2900 at all. All I remember was that 2900 was being ridiculed left and right for being late and performing poorly; maybe there was little room to talk about heat when there was more than enough negatives to bitch about it.
Go to a forum focused on say vid editing/encoding and see what they think of Fermi, see if they think it's too hot, too expensive or too big just as it is now without a die shrink.
Interstingly, I was thinking of making a poll on that myself. I tend to think this forum is mostly inhibited by gamers rather than other professionals - could be totally off-base, but that's what I infer by looking at the number of related posts and whatnot.
What names? Pointing out hypocrisy or nigh religious zeal for a company? The mods on this forum official stance is that only Intel gets special moderator protection(you are not allowed to insult Intel in any way). If I'm being hypocritical about something, feel free to point it out to me at any time.
Like, church people or worshippers? Isn't that a bit deragatory? Maybe I am acting too PC, dunno
🙂 I just felt that kind of animosity wasn't called for unless you are totally partial to one company yourself.
