NV: Everything under control. 512-Fermi may appear someday. Yields aren't under 20%

[Zstream]

No, he isn't. Even though you didn't ask me.

He was affiliated with the viral marketing crap a while back.

 

[Madcatatlas]

You dont have to be a genius to understand where certain peoples interests lie

also, car analogies = lol.. just freakin lol. Just use any other analogy instead and stop making a fool out of yourself. really.

Also: i just bought 3 gtx 480s. I have them in 3 different pc builds, all in aluminium cases, with 3 120-140 mm fans and all of these computers sound loud, way louder than my previous stationary with FX 5800. AND THE HEAT!..God..
So i should know ..you know...


people sprinkle their opinions with way too much taste these days. Like my own reply right here.


I guess we are now awaiting nVidias press release saying yields are above or under a certain %, and thus ending this discussion (and likely starting a new one)

 

[yh125d]

Now you're catching on. Perfect analogy as Nvidia is also looking into more markets, not just a video card, but more.

Not quite a perfect analogy. The auto market satisfies different markets and niches by building multiple models, all different from each other so that every consumer can buy exactly what they want. NV is trying to satisfy the different markets by building one product that does it all

 

[Keysplayr]

He was affiliated with the viral marketing crap a while back.

Say WHAT?!?
Can you give us a recap on that situation?

 

[SlowSpyder]

My argument goes the same with noise, not worth crying about with a high end card. Unless you plan on gaming completely without sound. Never mind you can control fan speed or use aftermarket cooling. Heck most people I know use headphones so not a issue.

You are buying a high end card for gaming right people? Not just to cry and run benchmarks 24/7 and compare the box design it game in?

Well, I'm not most people, I have a nice set of speakers and like them. I also have a wife and a child, so turning up the speakers to overcome PC noise can be a bit of a problem.

It's not that I have an outright problem with the power use or noise, but when you compare it to the competition it is a big downfall of Fermi. When compared to the 5870 you get some 15% more performance for over 100 watts of additional power use. If the 5870 used that kind of power and was just as noisey, well then that's what we'd be stuck with for high end single GPU's. But it doesn't, so there is a choice, and for many the somewhat lower performing but more well rounded 5870 is a better option. For someone who could care less about power use and employs headphones when they game, the GTX480 may or may not be the better option. Though in my opinion if someone doesn't care about power use, heat, noise, or cost and wants an ultra high-end part, the 5970 is more appealing.

But my point is that there isn't a one-size-fits-all answer. I may want high end gaming but like that I can in fact get it from AMD without the negitives associated with Fermi. I may just want all the single GPU performance I can get. Saying that heat/power/noise doesn't matter because Fermi is a high end part just doens't hold water for everyone, especially since there are other options that can give you high end without those negitives.

 

[deimos3428]

Though in my opinion if someone doesn't care about power use, heat, noise, or cost and wants an ultra high-end part, the 5970 is more appealing.

There's a common theme there. Pick any two similarly capable opponents in the last couple of years, either from the same manufacturer or not, and it usually comes back to the same issue: Is a small edge in raw power worth it over an otherwise superior design?

Some recent examples:
5830 vs. 5770. (Same generation, different emphasis.)
4870 vs. 5770. (Newer generation improved design but took a performance hit.)
GTX480 vs. 5870. (Different manufacturer, different emphasis.)
etc.

 

[v8envy]

Back on topic. Please to note NV PR claims that 40nm is yielding at better than 20%, not "we're getting good yields on Fermi."

This includes the 2[124]0 cards in rat horde numbers. Another rumor has AIBs forced to eat 60 of the 40nm cards nobody wants for each Fermi. If Fermi is indeed in the 10k range for units you could have *negative* yields on Fermi parts (as in, each Fermi produced somehow causes two otherwise good 210 chips to burst into flames) and absolutely not impact the "40nm yields."

 

[Dribble]

Back on topic. Please to note NV PR claims that 40nm is yielding at better than 20%, not "we're getting good yields on Fermi."

This includes the 2[124]0 cards in rat horde numbers. Another rumor has AIBs forced to eat 60 of the 40nm cards nobody wants for each Fermi. If Fermi is indeed in the 10k range for units you could have *negative* yields on Fermi parts (as in, each Fermi produced somehow causes two otherwise good 210 chips to burst into flames) and absolutely not impact the "40nm yields."

There's a fair number of cards to buy. e.g. newegg had 2 brands of 480, was 4 brands earlier today, and 8 brands of 470. All at reasonable prices (approx $500 or $350).

tbh I think we can stop going on about the 10k number and yields - they only mattered if they stopped you being able to buy a card. As you can get the cards without much difficulty at rrp it doesn't really matter what they are.

 

[Zstream]

Say WHAT?!?
Can you give us a recap on that situation?

I had all the names in my sig, you made me take them away *cough*

 

[Attic]

You dont have to be a genius to understand where certain peoples interests lie

Werd. Doesn't mean those people won't deny to the death their interests though :hmm:.

Looks to me like nVidia doesn't have everything under control, this is exactly why they would have to come out and deny that things aren't in control. Got me? Why even come out and say things are under control?... If nVida isn't in control and is taking heat for some blunders is it likely they would come out and try to smooth feathers with PR?, yes. Granted this doesn't mean that because they are trying to smooth feathers with PR that it is directly related to blunders in their discreet GPU business, they could be smoothing feathers for a number of other reasons as well.

nVidia's forray into the DX11 GPU arena has certainly left a bit to be desired, but the proof is in the pudding. Sales numbers for the cards compared to a relevant direct competitor look like what again? Some would fool you to thinking the lack of cards available are due to high demand. More NV PR spin?, those who got dizzy awhile back all have AMD cards now, and NV's PR shtick has made plenty of people dizzy.

 

[v8envy]

tbh I think we can stop going on about the 10k number and yields - they only mattered if they stopped you being able to buy a card. As you can get the cards without much difficulty at rrp it doesn't really matter what they are.

Incorrect. Yields and supply matter even if "everyone who wants one can get one."

If the yields (and resulting supply as well as per unit cost including amortized R&D) is such that price competition is impractical then you have a smaller pool of potential customers due to the higher price. So while there is an equilibrium of supply and demand, the situation may not be optimal: it is far more profitable for the manufacturer to sell 6 million cards with a $25 profit margin than 10k cards with a $200 margin. Needless to say as a consumer I prefer lower prices as opposed to high margins.

Bad yields are exactly why a $259 MSRP 5850 is $300 7 months after release, even though "everyone who wants one can get one." Without TSMC caused supply issues we'd be looking at sub-$200 after rebate 5850s by now.

 

[Keysplayr]

I had all the names in my sig, you made me take them away *cough*

Oh yes. You had a list of your "suspicions" in your sig. How does that make BenSkywalker part of the viral thing we had here a while ago?
I think you probably owe him an apology.

 

[blanketyblank]

There's a fair number of cards to buy. e.g. newegg had 2 brands of 480, was 4 brands earlier today, and 8 brands of 470. All at reasonable prices (approx $500 or $350).

tbh I think we can stop going on about the 10k number and yields - they only mattered if they stopped you being able to buy a card. As you can get the cards without much difficulty at rrp it doesn't really matter what they are.

Assuming the 10k numbers from the analyst report are true or close wouldn't that indicate an even greater problem which is that there cards don't have sufficient demand at MSRP to sell even a small number of cards? Considering these cards are over $500 perhaps their customer base is only interested in getting a certain brand such as EVGA.

 

[Attic]

Assuming the 10k numbers from the analyst report are true or close wouldn't that indicate an even greater problem which is that there cards don't have sufficient demand at MSRP to sell even a small number of cards? Considering these cards are over $500 perhaps their customer base is only interested in getting a certain brand such as EVGA.

/agree

You have to assume people spending >$300 on computer hardware like an advanced GPU are going to be educating themselves on the purchase. There has not been much regard for the GTX400 lineup from most of the trusted review sites.

 

[Madcatatlas]

Oh yes. You had a list of your "suspicions" in your sig. How does that make BenSkywalker part of the viral thing we had here a while ago?
I think you probably owe him an apology.

---edit @ Keys: Sorry, i missed that. My bad!----


Why did you delete your own post where you said: "No he isnt, and i know you didnt ask me"?


if its in violation of forum rules to comment such selective deleting, im sorry, though it needed to be pointed out since you are telling him to apoligise.

 

[Skurge]

Why did you delete your own post where you said: "No he isnt, and i know you didnt ask me"?


if its in violation of forum rules to comment such selective deleting, im sorry, though it needed to be pointed out since you are telling him to apoligise.

Nice catch. I saw that too.

 

[Keysplayr]

Nice catch. I saw that too.

Ummmm, unless I'm nuts, it's still there guys. Post #103

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=29755379&postcount=103

So, I don't know what you're talking about and I didn't delete anything.

 

[Keysplayr]

Why did you delete your own post where you said: "No he isnt, and i know you didnt ask me"?


if its in violation of forum rules to comment such selective deleting, im sorry, though it needed to be pointed out since you are telling him to apoligise.

It's still there dude. I deleted nothing. #103
And I'm not "telling" anyone to do anything. I said he probably owes Ben and apology.

 

[T2k]

Well, I'm not most people, I have a nice set of speakers and like them. I also have a wife and a child, so turning up the speakers to overcome PC noise can be a bit of a problem.

Then you are like me you should get a nice real surround (ideally 2x4 physical speakers) set like myTurtle Beach Ear Force AK-R8 which I think, after trying out 2-3 others, is far the best multichannel headset out there.

 

[SolMiester]

Why did you delete your own post where you said: "No he isnt, and i know you didnt ask me"?


if its in violation of forum rules to comment such selective deleting, im sorry, though it needed to be pointed out since you are telling him to apoligise.

Perhaps you should back off, after all your are not the forum police, and if you do have issues you need to follow the rules of complaint and not post them on the thread!

 

[Meghan54]

Then you are like me you should get a nice real surround (ideally 2x4 physical speakers) set like myTurtle Beach Ear Force AK-R8 which I think, after trying out 2-3 others, is far the best multichannel headset out there.

I think what Slowspyder is trying to say is that there are people who don't want to be tethered to a set of 'phones, don't like the "center of your head" sound production, and overall dislike the can experience. I'm one of them.

I've been through many sets of 'phones in my life, including a set of Stax Omega II's (picked those up at an estate auction of an MD in Augusta, GA who'd passed. Drooled over the Apogee speakers, but their sheer size put me off, not to mention the price they went for. The Stax, on the other hand, were overlooked, basically ignored, and were purchased very cheaply along with their amp), and have tried a set of AKG's K701's and Sennheiser's HD800's.

In every case, I just don't find myself preferring 'phones over speakers. And I'll bet there are quite a few that just don't like 'phones, either, for what ever reason.

 

[ronnn]

He was affiliated with the viral marketing crap a while back.

I am sure you are joking. PR guys write for the unwashed and I rarely know what the hell ben is talking about.

 

[SlowSpyder]

I think what Slowspyder is trying to say is that there are people who don't want to be tethered to a set of 'phones, don't like the "center of your head" sound production, and overall dislike the can experience. I'm one of them.

I've been through many sets of 'phones in my life, including a set of Stax Omega II's (picked those up at an estate auction of an MD in Augusta, GA who'd passed. Drooled over the Apogee speakers, but their sheer size put me off, not to mention the price they went for. The Stax, on the other hand, were overlooked, basically ignored, and were purchased very cheaply along with their amp), and have tried a set of AKG's K701's and Sennheiser's HD800's.

In every case, I just don't find myself preferring 'phones over speakers. And I'll bet there are quite a few that just don't like 'phones, either, for what ever reason.

Yea, pretty much... I have a nice set of Z5500's that I spent nearly $300 on. I want to use them because I like the way they sound and I spent (what is to me) a large sum of money for computer speakers. But since I have a family a lot of the time those 505 watts go unused.

But the point I'm trying to make is someone cannot give a one-size-fits-all answer that because something is a high end video card, an enthusiast part, that power and noise don't matter. To some people it does. My card is fairly high end, I went with the cooler running and quiet card over a reference board that would undoubedly overclock more.

 

[ZimZum]

In every case, I just don't find myself preferring 'phones over speakers. And I'll bet there are quite a few that just don't like 'phones, either, for what ever reason.

I own 4 sets of high end head phones with amps and I have to agree. All things being equal, speakers > Headphones. Even great Headphones just cant provide the soundstage that speakers can. And when your talking about 5.1 and 7.1 multichannel setups, headphones dont stand a chance..

 

[Will Robinson]

Not to mention the damage it does to your hearing.
Try playing a few hours of Multiplayer BF2 with all those bombs and grenades going off in your headphones.
It surely must be detrimental over time.:\