Nuke this . . . FUD

[wanderer27]

This is both OS & Gaming related, but Steam is more towards gaming so here it is :

http://gadgets.ndtv.com/games/news/...ressively-worse-gears-of-war-developer-865457


A few quotes from the Article:

"Microsoft has launched new PC Windows features exclusively in UWP, and is effectively telling developers you can use these Windows features only if you submit to the control of our locked-down UWP ecosystem," he wrote in the Guardian at the time. "They're curtailing users' freedom to install full-featured PC software, and subverting the rights of developers and publishers to maintain a direct relationship with their customers."

"Slowly, over the next five years, they will force-patch Windows 10 to make Steam progressively worse and more broken. They'll never completely break it, but will continue to break it until, in five years, people are so fed up that Steam is buggy that the Windows Store seem like an ideal alternative. That's exactly what they did to their previous competitors in other areas. Now they're doing it to Steam. It's only just starting to become visible. Microsoft might not be competent enough to succeed with their plan but they are certainly trying," Sweeney said in an interview with Edge Magazine (via NeoGAF).

"If they can succeed in doing that then it's a small leap to forcing all apps and games to be distributed through the Windows store. Once we reach that point, the PC has become a closed platform. It won't be that one day they flip a switch that will break your Steam library - what they're trying to do is a series of sneaky manoeuvres. They make it more and more inconvenient to use the old apps, and, simultaneously, they try to become the only source for the new ones," he claims.

This is one of the reasons I'm really glad GOG is around.



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[DaveSimmons]

Smells like FUD and stale FUD from months ago at that.

Microsoft does not require using their store for UWP games.

Valve has the money to get the DoJ to look into abuses of monopoly power which intentionally breaking Steam would be. Also, whatever Sekrit Eveel Patchin they did would probably break Origin and UPlay too. EA has plenty o' lawyers to add to the dogpile.

I buy some stuff from GoG, but Steam is not going anywhere in the next five years.

 

[Sabrewings]

This is one of the reasons I'm really glad GOG is around.



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The only way for them to do this to Steam is to attack the Win32 platform as a whole. That will affect GOG purchased games as well.

Anyway, this won't happen. They'd have anti-trust and monopoly lawsuits so fast their heads would spin. Look at what is happening to Google in the EU, and bundling Maps with Android is small fish compared to forcing Steam out of Windows.

 

[Grooveriding]

Microsoft is trash in my book after the way they released Windows 10 : Spyware Edition, but this seems pretty extreme. How could you ever expect this to work when near every PC gamer is on Steam and has the bulk of their game library on Steam.

Imagine crippling the platform. For me it would be thousands of dollars invested into my game library made non functional. I don't buy any of the new games that are only available on the Windows 10 store and will continue to speak with my wallet against Microsoft in that fashion.

 

[wanderer27]

The Guardian has a piece on it too, though a bit longer read :

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...-pc-games-development-epic-games-gears-of-war


And yes, this one's from March, but same story.

The first one I posted came out today.


Thinking about it, I guess it could impact GOG as well, but since GOG doesn't require a Client or constant online connection it may not be as severe (and I'm aware that not all Steam games require this).


The ultimate source is from a Game Dev, so I'd think they'd have a better feel/understanding of what's going on with the platforms they work with on a day to day basis.

I'm just passing it along - it took an awful long time to get MS to back off on IE being integrated, and based on what I've seen from their OS's and Products, they pretty much do as they please whether it's good on not (Office changes totally suck).


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[Phynaz]

Sweeny has cracked.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I didn't fully understand his point. Assuming MS wants all purchases to go thru the windows store why would that prevent steam from working and if its some kind of windows feature preventing it why wouldn't steam adapt to it?

 

[DaveSimmons]

The Guardian has a piece on it too, though a bit longer read :

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...-pc-games-development-epic-games-gears-of-war


And yes, this one's from March, but same story.

The first one I posted came out today.


Thinking about it, I guess it could impact GOG as well, but since GOG doesn't require a Client or constant online connection it may not be as severe (and I'm aware that not all Steam games require this).


The ultimate source is from a Game Dev, so I'd think they'd have a better feel/understanding of what's going on with the platforms they work with on a day to day basis.

I'm just passing it along - it took an awful long time to get MS to back off on IE being integrated, and based on what I've seen from their OS's and Products, they pretty much do as they please whether it's good on not (Office changes totally suck).


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Sure, I'm not saying you're spreading FUD, it's that article which dug up a 4-month-old story for some easy clickbait. And ignored any contrary facts.

At first Sweeney and others assumed that UWP apps could only be sold through the Microsoft store, but Microsoft made clear (back in March) that this is not true, and Steam is free to sell them. Microsoft is also planning to release some of their own upcoming PC games on Steam.

 

[StinkyPinky]

The entire thing sounds like scare mongering to me. It's a universal platform so apps can work across xbox, windows, and windows phone. This is no different than what Apple does(or wants to do).

He says himself that it still supports side loading, so again, what is his point?

 

[DaveSimmons]

The entire thing sounds like scare mongering to me. It's a universal platform so apps can work across xbox, windows, and windows phone. This is no different than what Apple does(or wants to do).

He says himself that it still supports side loading, so again, what is his point?

He had a point back in March, before Microsoft clarified things.

If it was true UWP apps could only be sold by the Windows store not Steam, then the next step on the roadmap might have been to make Windows like iOS for UWP and only allow sideloading in limited cases like using enterprise admin tools or a developer license.

But it was made clear months ago that that was not true, and Sweeney updated his thoughts to reflect that.

Sense never gets in the way of clickbait though, so that article's author decided to fire up the FUD machine with some stale quotes from an old article.

 

[aigomorla]

somewhere in the dark alley u see EA paying money to microsoft to scare people from stop using steam and move over to origin.

 

[wanderer27]

If what I'm getting out of things (may well be incorrect) looking between the lines so to speak - Origin, or basically any Online or Client based gaming is going to have issues.

It is my understanding that Win 10 does not play nice with a lot of software, not just gaming software.
Now in these cases, MS is likely saying it's part of the new OS improvements aka Security features.

Too me, that sounds like they're locking things down more and more, so it may just be part of the process that things will not work as well, or it could be something more.

I don't know, but from what little I've heard, I think there could be a little something to this.


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[zinfamous]

The only way for them to do this to Steam is to attack the Win32 platform as a whole. That will affect GOG purchased games as well.

Anyway, this won't happen. They'd have anti-trust and monopoly lawsuits so fast their heads would spin. Look at what is happening to Google in the EU, and bundling Maps with Android is small fish compared to forcing Steam out of Windows.

This.

And don't forget what already happened to MS in the EU, regarding IE and WMC. (yeah, it was funny that that Trojan "RealPlayer" was the main plaintiff, but still...)

This is complete FUD.

 

[tidy]

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[Fanatical Meat]

If what I'm getting out of things (may well be incorrect) looking between the lines so to speak - Origin, or basically any Online or Client based gaming is going to have issues.

It is my understanding that Win 10 does not play nice with a lot of software, not just gaming software.
Now in these cases, MS is likely saying it's part of the new OS improvements aka Security features.

Too me, that sounds like they're locking things down more and more, so it may just be part of the process that things will not work as well, or it could be something more.

I don't know, but from what little I've heard, I think there could be a little something to this.


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I can verify windows 10 works perfectly fine with steam.
Backward compatibility on very old games can be a problem but we're talking about DX5 or 6 games, something about that version is no longer supported. I still don't get the point, are you saying MS will do something to prevent steam from running and valve will have no way of patching/complying?

 

[nerp]

Blah blah, he's been wrong all along and will continue to stay wrong. The fact is MS supports steam, loves steam, understands steam is a huge reason people still buy Windows and PCs, and has zero intention of doing anything to "harm" steam through its efforts to sell games through the windows store or develop technology while encouraging developers to use the UWP platform.

The tragedy here is that he gets as much press as he does.

 

[Kaido]

I will say that steam is oddly slow on the gaming PC I've been using lately (i7, 24GB RAM, EVO SSD, GTX980 Ti, Windows 10). It takes Steam awhile to startup & load.

 

[master_shake_]

oh i am certain people will be flocking to the windows store for their game purchases.

right around the same time pigs fly.

because there is no way to fix that problem and steam will never figure out how.

ever.

 

[Zenoth]

At this point in time I'm surprised that Valve hasn't made their own gaming-focused/friendly operating system, and console as well. If Microsoft ever plans to actually 'degrade' Steam over time on Windows 10, then I highly doubt that Valve will remain silent (figuratively speaking). They'll make a move too I'm sure. But for now I guess it's too soon to see if any of those claims are true (or will become so over time). We'll see in about two or three years from now how things turn out.

 

[cytg111]

At this point in time I'm surprised that Valve hasn't made their own gaming-focused/friendly operating system, and console as well.

Irony detector might need an upgrade, I am not sensing it....

 

[biostud]

For this to happen windows should end the support to win32 software, which isn't going to happen.

Any developer can choose wether they want to go win32 or uwp. If uwp is the bette platform, then go for it. If it is better than steam it will have to be really good. Otherwise developrs will stay on steam.

 

[tidy]

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[Gryz]

Tim Sweeney is smarter than all posters in this thread combined. Maybe smarter than all posters on Anandtech combined. He's of the caliber of John Carmack.

Tim Sweeney also has always been a reasonably quiet guy. In the sense that he was never really outspoken. Always polite. Always cautious. For Sweeney to say something like this, he must really feel this way.

And lastly, Sweeney has always been pro-Microsoft. They were one of the first companies to claim that games-for-PC were not worth it, and all profits were at consoles. He's also not been pro-Linux, but kept defending Windows. He's not an OpenGL adept (like Carmack) but has been defending DirectX. I find it very surprising that Carmack is attacking Microsoft. And defending Steam.

 

[BSim500]

The only way for them to do this to Steam is to attack the Win32 platform as a whole. That will affect GOG purchased games as well.

Well, the game collections for us "luddites" still on Win7 would remain unaffected by potential Win10 nerfing. :biggrin:

 

[zinfamous]

At this point in time I'm surprised that Valve hasn't made their own gaming-focused/friendly operating system, and console as well. If Microsoft ever plans to actually 'degrade' Steam over time on Windows 10, then I highly doubt that Valve will remain silent (figuratively speaking). They'll make a move too I'm sure. But for now I guess it's too soon to see if any of those claims are true (or will become so over time). We'll see in about two or three years from now how things turn out.

dude..... :hmm: