It's irrelevant (legally) how they're numbered, so it's silly you're making a big deal about how the 1st Amendment is indeed the first. Without the 2nd, there is no 1st, or any other Amendment. Remember that the document was born out of a war, and it probably will take a war to restore it. Yet your kind continues to revere the Constitution only in parts - you're happy when Congress grossly oversteps its bounds in ways you like, but only piss and moan when Bush does the same in ways you do not like. From the New Deal forward, Democrats have essentially abandon the 10th and all of Article I, but I've never seen you complain about that.
It's irrelevant (legally) how they're numbered, so it's silly you're making a big deal about how the 1st Amendment is indeed the first. Without the 2nd, there is no 1st, or any other Amendment. Remember that the document was born out of a war, and it probably will take a war to restore it. Yet your kind continues to revere the Constitution only in parts - you're happy when Congress grossly oversteps its bounds in ways you like, but only piss and moan when Bush does the same in ways you do not like. From the New Deal forward, Democrats have essentially abandon the 10th and all of Article I, but I've never seen you complain about that.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
ie. the ones YOU agree with? :roll: Surely no one can take you seriously with an attitude like that. I shall continue to hope that your comment was the result of synapse error, and not what you really think.
One without the others makes the whole concept crumble.
- Aug 23, 2003
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Indeed, Britain is just in shambles right now without their Second Amendment rights. The country looks like a post-apocalyptic war-zone. :roll:
Some amendments are more valuable than others. Fact, not opinion.
Thanks for bringing up that quote by jpeyton - I'd glossed over it, as he's already provided plenty of reasons not to take himself seriously. But it's funny jpeyton thinks the First is the most important amendment. You'd think such a diehard leftist would remember his Mao teachings better - "All political power flows from the barrel of a gun." Hope you've got your NRA membership up to date, jpeyton. It's not like the ACLU is working late defending the 2nd Amendment.
According to who? You? How arrogant do you have to be to actually believe your opinions are facts, just because they're yours?!? Seems like you'd be smart enough to know that something like the importance of the various amendments is relative and subjective, without any objective basis to rank them, yet you say that. Amazing.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Wrong. If you disregard one, then it makes all the others worthless because you've now set the precedence that they can be ignored. Civics and logic 101.
I'm all for getting all huffy about people not respecting ALL civil liberties...but don't you think you're being a tad hypocritical by focusing on JUST the 2nd amendment and JUST on the people who you feel don't respect it? After all, anti-gun folks aren't the only people selective about what amendment they support, and the 2nd amendment is hardly the only one that doesn't enjoy universal recognition. Yet despite your increasingly angry ranting about gun rights, I don't see you saying a word about any other rights. And it's not like you don't have the opportunity, we're posting in a thread where people are suggesting the government use soldiers to suppress 1st amendment rights in Berkeley. But all I see is complaining about the 2nd amendment, which I believe you brought up in the first place.
Like I said, I'm all for pushing for support of ALL civil liberties and calling people out for not doing so...but unless you want to look like a complete tool, it might be a good idea to, you know, support them all yourself, first.
- Aug 23, 2003
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These shills are just deferring the current argument (1st Amendment Rights) by picking a different issue.
If you want to discuss the right to bear arms, make a new thread.
Burning the flag is a First Amendment right. Get over it. I can heat my home burning US flags in any state of the union.
If you want to discuss the right to bear arms, make a new thread.
Burning the flag is a First Amendment right. Get over it. I can heat my home burning US flags in any state of the union.
What happened to our country being built on Christian principles? Didn't the deity of said religion declare emphatically that there should be no worship of idols?
Some of the people that are declaring this an abomination sure sound like they are close to idolizing the flag.
Some of the people that are declaring this an abomination sure sound like they are close to idolizing the flag.
Unless you want to look like a complete tool, it might be a good idea to, you know, read the whole thread. My very first post was about the First Amendment, not the Second. I wrote this above:
Furthermore, I never denied flag-burning wasn't a protected form of speech; I only mentioned that it was a sideshow (which it is) to real erosions of rights being passed by Congress all the time.
Fair enough, so how about applying that to the topic at hand? This is a thread about flag burning, and so far all I've seen you done is complain about what jpeyton said. How about putting your money where your mouth is? If you need to respect all the amendments in order to respect any of them...surely you're in favor of free speech even if it's expressed in a distasteful way. Or is all this noise just a cover?
A flag is just a piece of cloth and therefore burning it means nothing other than the meaning you choose to attach to it.
It's amazing though, how worked up the flag-waving uber-patriots get over some isolated incident like this and yet these same folks seem awfully content to allow our current leaders to sully our country's image around the world.
Get your priorities straight.
It's amazing though, how worked up the flag-waving uber-patriots get over some isolated incident like this and yet these same folks seem awfully content to allow our current leaders to sully our country's image around the world.
Get your priorities straight.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
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These are the same sorts of people who will also wear US flag shorts, T-shirts, underwear, and even contact lenses, while protesting abuses of the flag, without realizing the irony. The latter was in a picture in a local newspaper. The woman looked like a zombie.
Using a flag like that is disrespectful of it. It takes something said to represent honorable values, and cheapens it.
Nitemare
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2001
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Well I search for US foreign aid and it took about 6 pages before I found one that wasn't only about Israel, but that only came up to 2003 and that was 18.7 billion a year, so I'm guessing around 25 billion a year now. Where is the RoI at?
Cookie for you for actually reading the article. Yes, I would like to see the 275 million a day we are spending in the Middle East go down, but we can't pull them all out now. We can hurry the Iraqi government up and gradually start to withdraw our troops. Iraq really has nothing for us now, only a buffer between terrorists and America. Yes, it is giving terrorists an opportunity to be able to kill Americans in their backyard, but if they couldn't do that they would come to our backyard and start on our women and children.
What I would like to see in my ideal world is far less military presence in the Middle East, but increased funding in CIA and covert Ops. Increased spending in alternative fuel research, building alot more nuclear power plants and greatly reducing our need from buying fuel from terrorist supporters. Bottom line is that the Middle East is just a hellhole than 90% of the rest of the world would give a rats ass about if they didn't have oil.
And getting back on topic.
Berkeley is filled with birkenstock-wearing, unpatriotic, flag-burning, tofu-eating, tree-hugging hippies. Everyone knows that. They have a right to burn the flag, but that doesn't mean they aren't douches for doing it.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Did I say I didn't support their right to burn the flag? Nope, I sure didn't. My issue comes in when people like jpeyton try to bastardize things with this X is more valuable than Y argument when it comes to Constitutionally enumerated rights, thus my comments. He opened the door, I shut it in his face but that does not mean that I think people shouldn't be able to express themselves by burning something they seem to hate.
Nitemare
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2001
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Wow...nothing like subtly suggesting people should be KILLED for expressing the "wrong" viewpoint (seriously, what the fuck is wrong with the people behind that second website). It's like you guys are self-parodying...no humorous characterization could possibly be more ridiculous than you already are.
Nitemare
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2001
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what's wrong with calling the Marine Corps murderers and baby killers?
I was mainly talking about the pics on the site...such class
All I'm saying is that there is nothing like making your point by contrasting complete nutbars with other complete nutbars. Being a right-wing version of flag burning nutjobs isn't really a big improvement.
I'm glad you're not president, either, prick! 
Suck it up, they're practicing freedom of speech. If you're going to get butt-hurt over someone burning a symbol, then you're obviously not very confident in what it symbolizes in the first place.
Man, you die-hard nationalists are a bunch of whiny babies. You make us "hippie commies" look like lions.
Suck it up, they're practicing freedom of speech. If you're going to get butt-hurt over someone burning a symbol, then you're obviously not very confident in what it symbolizes in the first place.
Man, you die-hard nationalists are a bunch of whiny babies. You make us "hippie commies" look like lions.
KlokWyze
Diamond Member
These evil demonic hippies should be water-boarded for the remainder of their disgusting lives. Then their families should be burned alive for such an evil evil act against the beautiful holy nation of America!
shortylickens
No Lifer
- Jul 15, 2003
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On a completely new and unrelated topic:
Am I the only person here who noticed we have very few people making intelligent arguments? That emotion is pretty much its own argument and should be "the way"?
Or is it just special to me because I dont frequent P&N?
Am I the only person here who noticed we have very few people making intelligent arguments? That emotion is pretty much its own argument and should be "the way"?
Or is it just special to me because I dont frequent P&N?
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