Now they're buring Old Glory in Berkeley...

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Harvey
It's a symbol, not the nation. If you truly value the freedoms granted under the U.S. Constitution, be glad the flag burners have the freedom to express themselves short of violence.

If you really want to get pissed about something, take a rousing dump on the Bushwhackos who are taking away those freedoms, one by one, day by day. You know... the ones you'll never miss... until YOU need them, including YOUR freedom of speech, freedom from unwarranted searches and the right to habeas corpus.

Are you as equally outraged about various democrats who can't seem to find the 2nd Amendment in the Constitution, pretend the 10th never existed, and trample the Article I limitation of powers on an annual basis? I'm betting not. People who just want to defend the Constitution piecemeal are the main reason it's in disregard now.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: Harvey
It's a symbol, not the nation. If you truly value the freedoms granted under the U.S. Constitution, be glad the flag burners have the freedom to express themselves short of violence.

If you really want to get pissed about something, take a rousing dump on the Bushwhackos who are taking away those freedoms, one by one, day by day. You know... the ones you'll never miss... until YOU need them, including YOUR freedom of speech, freedom from unwarranted searches and the right to habeas corpus.

Are you as equally outraged about various democrats who can't seem to find the 2nd Amendment in the Constitution, pretend the 10th never existed, and trample the Article I limitation of powers on an annual basis? I'm betting not. People who just want to defend the Constitution piecemeal are the main reason it's in disregard now.

:thumbsup:

Exactly. Both parties are equally to blame.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Are you as equally outraged about various democrats who can't seem to find the 2nd Amendment in the Constitution, pretend the 10th never existed, and trample the Article I limitation of powers on an annual basis? I'm betting not. People who just want to defend the Constitution piecemeal are the main reason it's in disregard now.

Thanks for the straw man (men???). The Second and Tenth Amendments have nothing to do with a discussion of the very FIRST Amendment to the Constitution. If you want to discuss those amendments, start a thread about them.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Are you as equally outraged about various democrats who can't seem to find the 2nd Amendment in the Constitution, pretend the 10th never existed, and trample the Article I limitation of powers on an annual basis? I'm betting not. People who just want to defend the Constitution piecemeal are the main reason it's in disregard now.

Thanks for the straw man (men???). The Second and Tenth Amendments have nothing to do with a discussion of the very FIRST Amendment to the Constitution. If you want to discuss those amendments, start a thread about them.

There are people that are outraged that the 1st amendment: Freedom to burn the flag isn't being respected, yet usually these same people that burn the flag usually could careless about the 2nd and 10th

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: sirjonk
Your argument is logically self-defeating. Men and women died to protect our right to burn the flag, so we shouldn't burn the flag. They died so we COULD burn the flag in protest.

No, they didn't they died to protect the lives and freedom of Americans. If they could have had their choice they would have seceded Berkeley to Vietnam long ago...since apparently they support everyone but Americans that are dieing for their country.

That's the dumbest thing I've seen written on here in awhile.

First of all you say they died for the freedom of americans, but not the freedom to burn the flag. Strange. Are there any other freedoms that they didn't like that you know about? How did they feel about the third amendment? Was that one on their list of amendments to die protecting? (also, I don't remember getting a sheet with checkboxes when I signed up asking me which parts of the constitution I was willing to die to protect).

Secondly, you're trying to speak to the preferences of dead people from 40 years ago and how they would have done something bad to the city of Berkeley. That's just really dumb.

Why don't you go onto any military base and start to burn a flag and tell them thank you for giving you this opportunity?

then post back here the results if you make it out of the hospital...

I love when authoritarian types try to pull the military card. I've found that the idea of what right wingers think the military is like is so far off as to render it unrecognizable to me.

So hey genius, I spent 7 and a half years in the military. The only reason I would have a problem with going down to 32nd street here and burning a flag is that there's a good chance I would still know some of the guys on watch and I wouldn't want to cause them any trouble. People burn flags in front of naval station San Diego reasonably often, I've seen it before. Guess what happens? Nothing. Even burning it on the base wouldn't be an issue except that you would be starting a fire. (and you'd need an escort who probably wouldn't appreciate you getting him in trouble)

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: sirjonk
Your argument is logically self-defeating. Men and women died to protect our right to burn the flag, so we shouldn't burn the flag. They died so we COULD burn the flag in protest.

No, they didn't they died to protect the lives and freedom of Americans. If they could have had their choice they would have seceded Berkeley to Vietnam long ago...since apparently they support everyone but Americans that are dieing for their country.

That's the dumbest thing I've seen written on here in awhile.

First of all you say they died for the freedom of americans, but not the freedom to burn the flag. Strange. Are there any other freedoms that they didn't like that you know about? How did they feel about the third amendment? Was that one on their list of amendments to die protecting? (also, I don't remember getting a sheet with checkboxes when I signed up asking me which parts of the constitution I was willing to die to protect).

Secondly, you're trying to speak to the preferences of dead people from 40 years ago and how they would have done something bad to the city of Berkeley. That's just really dumb.

Why don't you go onto any military base and start to burn a flag and tell them thank you for giving you this opportunity?

then post back here the results if you make it out of the hospital...

I love when authoritarian types try to pull the military card. I've found that the idea of what right wingers think the military is like is so far off as to render it unrecognizable to me.

So hey genius, I spent 7 and a half years in the military. The only reason I would have a problem with going down to 32nd street here and burning a flag is that there's a good chance I would still know some of the guys on watch and I wouldn't want to cause them any trouble. People burn flags in front of naval station San Diego reasonably often, I've seen it before. Guess what happens? Nothing. Even burning it on the base wouldn't be an issue except that you would be starting a fire. (and you'd need an escort who probably wouldn't appreciate you getting him in trouble)

So you wouldn't want to disrespect the people you know that are still serving? Yet you have no qualms doing it in front of others you don't know. I haven't heard of people going down to burn flags at the Naval base before.

How some Californians tried to protest once.

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: CitizenKain

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
CNN Video

Just great.

What idiots all the sudden equate recruitment center with war in Iraq? Even if we were not fighting in Iraq, the center would still be there. Or would it? Why won't these Communist, hippies just come out and say that they hate all war and don't want the USA to have a military at all?

I'm glad I'm not the President. If I were a lame duck like Bush, I might just "send in the Marines" to invade Berkeley and give them something to cry about.

Do you view what happened at Kent State many years ago as a good thing? Bush is a worthless president, but at least he isn't a psychopath like you.

My statement does not imply violence at all. Perhaps Marine-enforced curfew?

Only if you let them use rubber bullets and tear gas

Originally posted by: sirjonk
Your argument is logically self-defeating. Men and women died to protect our right to burn the flag, so we shouldn't burn the flag. They died so we COULD burn the flag in protest.

No, they didn't they died to protect the lives and freedom of Americans. If they could have had their choice they would have seceded Berkeley to Vietnam long ago...since apparently they support everyone but Americans that are dieing for their country.

The Kool-Aid seems especially strong tonight. I don't see the Berkeley protests as disrespecting our troops who are doing a dirty, difficult job that they should not have to be doing, but rather, I see these people showing their objection to the Bush War by protesting a symbol of that war...a military recruiting office.
I served in Vietnam as a US Marine, and while I don't particularly like what the folks in Berzerkely are doing, I do support their right to do it.
Why do you righties get your panties in such a wad over stupid stuff like this? If you REALLY want to get mad, get mad at the Bush administration for getting into this war that we shouldn't be in...get mad at the Bush administration for sending our troops into harm's way over a bunch of lies and/or "bad intelligence" instead of allowing the UN to do its job.
NO ONE in the world elected the USA to be the world's police force. bush wanted to attack Iraq long before 9-11, but 9-11 gave him the reason and impetus..."I am a WAR PRESIDENT!" (and I like it)

If everyone would have simply ignored the happenings in Berkeley, it would have blown over by now, and the USMC recruiters would be doing business as usual.

 

[jpeyton]

Some Amendments are a bit more valuable than others. There is a reason The First Amendment is first on the f**king list.

As for ill-will against the military, get used to it. Support is high during legitimate national security conflicts (Afghanistan, WWII) and support is low during illegitimate ones (Iraq, Vietnam). With Afghanistan taking the back page, and Iraq a total failure, expect support for the military to be low. It's more of a burden than a benefit; a simple cost/benefit analysis will tell you that:

$100+ Billion Year & More Global Terrorism = Burden

And that is just the Iraq War. The entire defense industry is a leech on our country.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
So you wouldn't want to disrespect the people you know that are still serving? Yet you have no qualms doing it in front of others you don't know. I haven't heard of people going down to burn flags at the Naval base before.

How some Californians tried to protest once.

It has nothing to do with disrespecting anyone. They are just stuck there on watch and if people were burning a bunch of flags it would make their watch harder because they would probably have to right down a report of what was happening, etc. (this happens any time there is any sort of protest/disturbance). So no, my reluctance to do so has absolutely zero to do with respect or disrespect.

People burned flags on at least two occasions that I know of while I was stationed there. It's not a super frequent occurance, but certainly far from unheard of.

A flag is just that.. a flag. It's not what i joined the military for, and defending the flag isn't what anyone I know joined for. (of course most people just join for money and education benefits, but even those who think differently aren't joining to defend "Old Glory".)

So why don't you let me tell you what the people in the military are likely to do when they see the flag burned. I guarantee what I tell you will be a lot closer to the truth then whatever crazy view of the military you have cooked up in your head.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Some Amendments are a bit more valuable than others. There is a reason The First Amendment is first on the f**king list.

As for ill-will against the military, get used to it. Support is high during legitimate national security conflicts (Afghanistan, WWII) and support is low during illegitimate ones (Iraq, Vietnam). With Afghanistan taking the back page, and Iraq a total failure, expect support for the military to be low. It's more of a burden than a benefit; a simple cost/benefit analysis will tell you that:

$100+ Billion Year & More Global Terrorism = Burden

And that is just the Iraq War. The entire defense industry is a leech on our country.

Yeah and we give over 2.3 trillion dollars a year in foreign aid

That's what the government does...waste money

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Some Amendments are a bit more valuable than others. There is a reason The First Amendment is first on the f**king list.

As for ill-will against the military, get used to it. Support is high during legitimate national security conflicts (Afghanistan, WWII) and support is low during illegitimate ones (Iraq, Vietnam). With Afghanistan taking the back page, and Iraq a total failure, expect support for the military to be low. It's more of a burden than a benefit; a simple cost/benefit analysis will tell you that:

$100+ Billion Year & More Global Terrorism = Burden

And that is just the Iraq War. The entire defense industry is a leech on our country.

Yeah and we give over 20 trillion dollars a year in foreign aid

That's what the government does...waste money

The Republican "conservatives" have taken waste to an all-time record high...you must be proud.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Some Amendments are a bit more valuable than others. There is a reason The First Amendment is first on the f**king list.

As for ill-will against the military, get used to it. Support is high during legitimate national security conflicts (Afghanistan, WWII) and support is low during illegitimate ones (Iraq, Vietnam). With Afghanistan taking the back page, and Iraq a total failure, expect support for the military to be low. It's more of a burden than a benefit; a simple cost/benefit analysis will tell you that:

$100+ Billion Year & More Global Terrorism = Burden

And that is just the Iraq War. The entire defense industry is a leech on our country.

Well then, I'm your Huckleberry!

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Some Amendments are a bit more valuable than others. There is a reason The First Amendment is first on the f**king list.

As for ill-will against the military, get used to it. Support is high during legitimate national security conflicts (Afghanistan, WWII) and support is low during illegitimate ones (Iraq, Vietnam). With Afghanistan taking the back page, and Iraq a total failure, expect support for the military to be low. It's more of a burden than a benefit; a simple cost/benefit analysis will tell you that:

$100+ Billion Year & More Global Terrorism = Burden

And that is just the Iraq War. The entire defense industry is a leech on our country.

Yeah and we give over 20 trillion dollars a year in foreign aid

That's what the government does...waste money

20 trillion? Really? Proof?

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Some Amendments are a bit more valuable than others. There is a reason The First Amendment is first on the f**king list.

As for ill-will against the military, get used to it. Support is high during legitimate national security conflicts (Afghanistan, WWII) and support is low during illegitimate ones (Iraq, Vietnam). With Afghanistan taking the back page, and Iraq a total failure, expect support for the military to be low. It's more of a burden than a benefit; a simple cost/benefit analysis will tell you that:

$100+ Billion Year & More Global Terrorism = Burden

And that is just the Iraq War. The entire defense industry is a leech on our country.

Yeah and we give over 20 trillion dollars a year in foreign aid

That's what the government does...waste money

No we don't. If that were the case we could just cut foreign aid in half for a year and totally pay off our debt. Btw, the proposed budget for 2008 is 3 trillions dollars TOTAL.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Yeah and we give over 20 trillion dollars a year in foreign aid

That's what the government does...waste money

If you're going to talk out of your ass, pick a better number than $20 trillion.

Our defense budget is a Republican war profiteering piggy bank, and more people are realizing this by the day.

 

[BrownTown]

I for one think Berkley can go straight to fucking hell for being a bunch of commie bastards. That being said I 100% defend their right to burn the flag and protest, but I still hate the fuck out of them for being a bunch of FAR left wing nutjobs (and I am on the left, just moderately on the left not crazy whacked out commie on the left).

also 20 Trillions > entire US GDP, so whoever said that is retard.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Yeah and we give over 20 trillion dollars a year in foreign aid

That's what the government does...waste money

If you're going to talk out of your ass, pick a better number than $2.3 trillion.

Our defense budget is a Republican war profiteering piggy bank, and more people are realizing this by the day.

somewhere on here, but oops I forgot a decimal

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

But how much money do we "give away" each year and forgive in foreign loans...mostly to countries that could really give a damn about us.

So basically, we can take a month off from printing money for other countries and we could fund our efforts in the Middle East for 2 years.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
As for ill-will against the military, get used to it. Support is high during legitimate national security conflicts (Afghanistan, WWII) and support is low during illegitimate ones (Iraq, Vietnam). With Afghanistan taking the back page, and Iraq a total failure, expect support for the military to be low.

No, actually, support for the military is quite high.

It doesn't matter what your definition of "legitimate" might be. There's always a group of far-left kookshit moonbats who will run around chomping and foaming at the mouth.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Some Amendments are a bit more valuable than others. There is a reason The First Amendment is first on the f**king list.

As for ill-will against the military, get used to it. Support is high during legitimate national security conflicts (Afghanistan, WWII) and support is low during illegitimate ones (Iraq, Vietnam). With Afghanistan taking the back page, and Iraq a total failure, expect support for the military to be low. It's more of a burden than a benefit; a simple cost/benefit analysis will tell you that:

$100+ Billion Year & More Global Terrorism = Burden

And that is just the Iraq War. The entire defense industry is a leech on our country.

Yeah and we give over 20 trillion dollars a year in foreign aid

That's what the government does...waste money

The Republican "conservatives" have taken waste to an all-time record high...you must be proud.

I never voted for them. I'm a registered republican, but the last one I voted for was Bush Sr

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Pabster
No, actually, support for the military is quite high.

If you're counting yellow magnetic ribbons, sure it is.

The Army failed to meet recruiting goals for quite some time after we went into Iraq. They finally increased incentives enough to meet their recent recruitment goals (not surprising in our depressed economy), but still acknowledge they have some challenges ahead meeting future goals.

They're certainly not being supported by our government, who have been funding billions in defense contracts at the expense of veterans care/benefits.

Supported by family members and friends? Sure. Red states? Always had that support.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Nitemare
Yeah and we give over 20 trillion dollars a year in foreign aid

That's what the government does...waste money

If you're going to talk out of your ass, pick a better number than $2.3 trillion.

Our defense budget is a Republican war profiteering piggy bank, and more people are realizing this by the day.

somewhere on here, but oops I forgot a decimal

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp

But how much money do we "give away" each year and forgive in foreign loans...mostly to countries that could really give a damn about us.

So basically, we can take a month off from printing money for other countries and we could fund our efforts in the Middle East for 2 years.

Do you even read your own links?

First of all your link said that the ENTIRE WEST (ie. the US and Europe) gave over 2.3 trillion dollars, but it's not a year... it was total investment over the last FIVE DECADES. Furthermore while we are the single largest contributor, we by no means account for a dominant portion of that total fiscal outlay. So what were you saying again?

Even 2.3 trillion a year would be about 20% of our entire GDP. Suuuuuure we do.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Martin
I honestly wonder where you people get all that outrage from.

I agree. Does anyone remember the outrage expressed because San Francisco would not allow the Marines to film an ad in a certain part of their city?

Those maniacs in Berkeley are not killing, hurting, or denying anybody's rights by burning a flag.

BTW, when was the last time you read the phrase "Old Glory"?

 

[Jeff7]

I'm surprised this hasn't been posted here yet. I saw it in someone's sig:

"The day you aren't allowed to burn the flag is the day you should."


Fervent nationalism can in fact be a bad thing. Pride in an organization is fine, but not when taken to the extreme of believing that it can do no wrong. Being too nationalistic only serves to divide people. Wasn't this country founded on ideals of unity? Turning a unity-based club into an exclusive one seems a bit hypocritical.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Mursilis
Are you as equally outraged about various democrats who can't seem to find the 2nd Amendment in the Constitution, pretend the 10th never existed, and trample the Article I limitation of powers on an annual basis? I'm betting not. People who just want to defend the Constitution piecemeal are the main reason it's in disregard now.

Excellent point. :thumbsup:

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
If you're counting yellow magnetic ribbons, sure it is.

Is that your idea of support?

The Army failed to meet recruiting goals for quite some time after we went into Iraq. They finally increased incentives enough to meet their recent recruitment goals (not surprising in our depressed economy), but still acknowledge they have some challenges ahead meeting future goals.

WTF do recruiting goals have to do with public support of the military? :roll:

They're certainly not being supported by our government, who have been funding billions in defense contracts at the expense of veterans care/benefits.

Supported by family members and friends? Sure. Red states? Always had that support.

You're a moonbat. And that's being nice.