Not Wanting Kids Is Entirely Normal

[MrDudeMan]

LOL yeah. $300k is nothing.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012/06/14/cost-to-raise-a-child-around-300000-not-including-college/

Edit: To clarify since the original post was admittedly a little stupid and tongue-in-cheek: I'm saying if you are planning for retirement and taking necessary precautions with your investments, $300k is 'nothing'. I'll change it to a quoted nothing because it's still money and it has an effect. My point, though, is that it can be heavily mitigated. I certainly didn't break even, but as a teenager I pulled my weight a little bit and I paid for my own college education. My parents didn't spend anywhere near $300k raising me.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Sorry but if you're seriously pretending that kids don't restrict your ability to do what you want whenever you want then you're not being honest.

You fail to take into account that what you want changes when you have children. I am literally able to do everything I want to do and then some. Being intelligent is different than being dishonest.

That's great for you but it's ignorant and naive to try and extend your experiences into a generalization for everyone with kids. Its very well established that having children is more expensive than not having children. This would unequivocally have an impact somewhere in your financial planning

An impact? Sure. I never said there was zero financial impact. It's not more expensive than the other way, though, as long as you are smart enough to handle it. I spent tons of money on various things before I had them and I'm sure that would have continued. Now, I spend less on that type of stuff and the delta is spent on my kids. I track it to the penny and I've been doing it for years. Putting money away for college + current living expenses did not impose a new financial burden on us...at all. We probably make a little more than the average family of four, so I'll give you that, but I could take a 20% paycut and nothing would change from a budget standpoint.

Sidenote: I'll bet you can't get divorced without considering custody! HA! You can't do everything I can!

You got me here. Touché.

 

[Nintendesert]

Adapt a puppy for unconditional love and I guarantee that raising a puppy is more fun that having teenage kids in the house! I am thankful that I have neither in the house at this time.

I can have both. Unlike those that preach sterility my genes will continue on while the savings of $300,000 will ensure the lonely sad march to extinction continues for those that desire it.

The human species will continue, no doubt. However it will be MY human species.

 

[heymrdj]

:biggrin::thumbsup:

I'm still laughing. I didn't know if you were still around these forums or not as I haven't been on them as much as I used to be.

Yup I'm still around, still preaching the good word.

Oh but correction, that gf is my fiance now (got engaged about 2 years ago now).

 

[Vdubchaos]

Then why bring up the point about "well you won't know until you have kids! Then you'll see how great kids are!" ???

I'd bet that every person in this thread who isn't having kids knows that they *might* be missing something. However, they are intelligent and rational people who can think critically about their lives and don't just "throw caution to the wind" and pop out a kid because of how "great" others say it is to have kids. You seem like you're a person who has a good foundation for being a good parent, but we aren't all you. Some of us have genetic reasons we don't want to/can't have kids, others don't enjoy children, others don't believe they would be a good parent, still others don't want to invest the time and/or money into kids, and others don't want the responsibility.

Enjoy your kids and be a good parent. But please don't fall into the trap of thinking that because you're happy with kids, everybody should be happy with kids and try to "convince" others to join you in having kids.

I'm not trying to convince anyone, just trying to offset the thread back into normal.

It has weaved off into "anti child humper" end.

We are rational realists. Just this year we have had a large drought that has affected the food supply/chain.

Lay off CNN/Fox

Natural catastrophes happen every year and are out of your control so just don't worry about them. Tomorrow Comet could hit earth and we can all be dead.....I'm not going to live in fear.

Live like there is no tomorrow, just remember 99.9999999% of the time tomorrow will be here.

 

[DrunkenSano]

I certainly didn't break even, but as a teenager I pulled my weight a little bit and I paid for my own college education. My parents didn't spend anywhere near $300k raising me.

Back when you were a teenager, expenses were much, much cheaper. College cost nowhere as much as they do now.

Live like there is no tomorrow, just remember 99.9999999% of the time tomorrow will be here.

And people with that attitude are usually the one with a lot of debt in America these days. They just live for today instead of planning and saving for tomorrow.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Back when you were a teenager, expenses were much, much cheaper. College cost nowhere as much as they do now.

College is NOT a responsibility of a parent (let's get that straight first). That's just an American society BS. Also College is not a MUST to be successful or for every profession.

And I will tell you right now, those average numbers they come up with....that are into millions to raise a kid until 18 are straight up BS.

I have 4 kids (oldest is 14) and I haven't even made a million dollars in my entire career.....

Kids are not as expensive as people think. But they can be if you let them take you for a ride.....

And people with that attitude are usually the one with a lot of debt in America these days. They just live for today instead of planning and saving for tomorrow.

That's great, but that comment didn't apply to any kind of financial advice.



Just to your fears about how horrible the life will be tomorrow etc.

Don't worry about ANYTHING that's out of your control, that includes "natural disasters". Even if the shit was to go down in this planet...and no matter how bad it gets in US, you are STILL WAY ahead of what the world is experiencing (it can always be a LOT worse).

Heck, matter a fact, MOST of the world is starving in poverty AS IF a major natural disaster crisis was already here.

Relax

 

[JoeyP]

College is NOT a responsibility of a parent (let's get that straight first). That's just an American society BS. Also College is not a MUST to be successful or for every profession.

Agree on both parts.

However, if I see my kids wanting a college education to meet their personal future goals, and they are short on funds despite working and saving and earning scholarships, we will pitch in to help out.

 

[MrDudeMan]

College is NOT a responsibility of a parent (let's get that straight first). That's just an American society BS. Also College is not a MUST to be successful or for every profession.

And I will tell you right now, those average numbers they come up with....that are into millions to raise a kid until 18 are straight up BS.

I have 4 kids (oldest is 14) and I haven't even made a million dollars in my entire career.....

Kids are not as expensive as people think. But they can be if you let them take you for a ride.....

This is my point exactly. I paid for college myself, so it has zero impact on the $300k number regardless of how expensive it was. Also, I'm only 27 and I went to a private university, so I know how expensive it can be. It's still irrelevant, though, because I paid the bill.

As far as how expensive kids are, all kid related expenses are a tiny blip on my radar. With two kids, we pay approximately $3k/year. That includes $500 of padding that we don't always spend, but it's there to make the budget pessimistic. I know it will continue to increase as they get older, but the stuff you read online is pure crap. So, like I said, unless you suck at making a budget, they aren't expensive. I easily spend more on myself in the first quarter than I do on my kids for the entire year.

 

[tommo123]

College is NOT a responsibility of a parent (let's get that straight first). That's just an American society BS. Also College is not a MUST to be successful or for every profession.

And I will tell you right now, those average numbers they come up with....that are into millions to raise a kid until 18 are straight up BS.

I have 4 kids (oldest is 14) and I haven't even made a million dollars in my entire career.....

Kids are not as expensive as people think. But they can be if you let them take you for a ride.....



That's great, but that comment didn't apply to any kind of financial advice.



Just to your fears about how horrible the life will be tomorrow etc.

Don't worry about ANYTHING that's out of your control, that includes "natural disasters". Even if the shit was to go down in this planet...and no matter how bad it gets in US, you are STILL WAY ahead of what the world is experiencing (it can always be a LOT worse).

Heck, matter a fact, MOST of the world is starving in poverty AS IF a major natural disaster crisis was already here.

Relax

they're expensive (not including health care in this) since most parents have no idea what to do with their kids or how to discipline them so buy them things to shut them up. like when you see a kid with its mother in a store and starts screaming till he gets what he wants.

that gets worse when they become teens. give them a slap to get them to snap out of it (tried and true method for most of our races history) and they might grow up to not be spoilt little brats which other people hate to be around. they might be more well adjusted as a gift is an actual treat then as opposed to something they get on near a daily basis

 

[Ns1]

This is my point exactly. I paid for college myself, so it has zero impact on the $300k number regardless of how expensive it was. Also, I'm only 27 and I went to a private university, so I know how expensive it can be. It's still irrelevant, though, because I paid the bill.

As far as how expensive kids are, all kid related expenses are a tiny blip on my radar. With two kids, we pay approximately $3k/year. That includes $500 of padding that we don't always spend, but it's there to make the budget pessimistic. I know it will continue to increase as they get older, but the stuff you read online is pure crap. So, like I said, unless you suck at making a budget, they aren't expensive. I easily spend more on myself in the first quarter than I do on my kids for the entire year.

I taxed my parents for 5k as soon as I hit 16 years of age. I taxed them for another xx,xxx when I went to college. I can't imagine how much they spent on my ass taking me along on vacations (for which I'm grateful for btw). This is but a small subset of expenses that I incurred on behalf of my parents when I was young; I know my situation isn't unique, and I know all that shit wasn't cheap.

 

[DrunkenSano]

As far as how expensive kids are, all kid related expenses are a tiny blip on my radar. With two kids, we pay approximately $3k/year. That includes $500 of padding that we don't always spend, but it's there to make the budget pessimistic. I know it will continue to increase as they get older, but the stuff you read online is pure crap. So, like I said, unless you suck at making a budget, they aren't expensive. I easily spend more on myself in the first quarter than I do on my kids for the entire year.

Seems like expense is heavily based on region. I live in Jersey and I know it is definitely 3k a year for two kids. Here is a quote from someone else who lives near me:

wait are you saying it's possible to live on 30k in places like NJ? Our annual property tax is almost 16k by itself (it was already 10k in a small 3 bedroom). NJ is expensive too. 1 year (10 months) of preschool costs us $8k per child and that's at a cheaper co-op. We have twins so that's already $32k gone.

So 3k a year for two kids seems extremely low. And it isn't about sucking at making a budget.

 

[Ns1]

Seems like expense is heavily based on region. I live in Jersey and I know it is definitely 3k a year for two kids. Here is a quote from someone else who lives near me:



So 3k a year for two kids seems extremely low. And it isn't about sucking at making a budget.

it's obvious rh71 isn't making enough sacrifices for his children. He should live in a shack with 6 of his cousins and send the kids off to work. Fuck preschool, have them work in sweat shops.

That's how my ancestors made it work.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

It's outside of the breeders understanding that someone could live a happy meaningful life without children. Changing shit filled diapers is obviously the path to enlightenment.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Seems like expense is heavily based on region. I live in Jersey and I know it is definitely 3k a year for two kids. Here is a quote from someone else who lives near me:



So 3k a year for two kids seems extremely low. And it isn't about sucking at making a budget.

As a matter of fact, it is about sucking at budgeting. Property taxes are completely irrelevant. I had this house before I had kids. Other people in different situations don't have a valid claim to increased taxes unless they had to move to acquire more space. I'll buy that, but it still needs to be pro-rated. I have my yearly expenses for several years before and after kids. The bump because of the first kid was $2200/year for two years and then we had the second kid. The first one stopped needing diapers, which did a lot to offset the cost of the second. The total, with padding, is $3000. I have it graphically in a spreadsheet to the penny.

It costs nothing to have them on my healthcare plan and we spend $150/month for their food. Our total food budget is $350 because we make a lot of our own food. Other than food, it's $40/month for diapers and $30/month for clothes (amortized over the entire year, we don't buy clothes every month and, when we do, it's from used clothing stores).

I compared my budget with my sister's. She has kids between 7 and 13. The costs are definitely higher, but only because of specific activities. There is nothing inherently more expensive about them other than the fact that they eat slightly more food. Food is also more expensive in her area, which is something to consider, but we make a lot more of our own food than she does, which is definitely a big part of the gap.

 

[MrDudeMan]

It's outside of the breeders understanding that someone could live a happy meaningful life without children. Changing shit filled diapers is obviously the path to enlightenment.

Changing a diaper is about 20 seconds worth of work.

 

[Ns1]

Changing a diaper is about 20 seconds worth of work.

I usually see parents spending 20 seconds cleaning out shit from their kid's asshole alone, but hey maybe you got a new and improved method you'd like to teach the rest of em.

 

[DrunkenSano]

Please explain how property taxes are irrelevant? It has major relevance on where you live and how you budget. To say that it is irrelevant is like me saying, "If I don't pay my taxes, I can live a pretty easy life while having kids."

And where you live also heavily affects how your kids grow up, which ties directly in with property taxes.

Also, what kind of education were your kids getting from Kindergarten to High School? Do you home school them? If not, don't various fees relating to schooling also get added into your budget?

 

[happysmiles]

I want kids but I definitely think it's up to the person

my girlfriend didn't want kids until she met me.

If she didn't want kids and we were considering marriage then it would be a deal breaker because it's a life decision and I know that I couldn't live without having kids and to get married and risk not having them would be too much for me.

It's our choice in the end either way to hell with what anyone else says

 

[Kadarin]

Changing a diaper is about 20 seconds worth of work.

That's 20 seconds I'd much rather be doing something (anything) else. Fuck that.

 

[JM Aggie08]

It's outside of the breeders understanding that someone could live a happy meaningful life without children. Changing shit filled diapers is obviously the path to enlightenment.

Are you sterile or something? You seem pretty hostile and opinionated on the subject-matter.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Are you sterile or something? You seem pretty hostile and opinionated on the subject-matter.

As far as being sterile I don't know as I've never tried to have a kid but I don't imagine I am. I'm just frustrated with all the societal pressure to have kids. If it's not some subliminal message on TV or it's a breeder telling me the joys of raising a kid and how life turned to rainbows and unicorns the second the child was conceived.

 

[bfdd]

When I decide it's time to have a kid, I'll adopt one as well.

 

[Svnla]

For those that against having kid(s), imagine if your parents did not want any kids, you would not be born and be here to participate in this thread?

As I said before in this thread, I would love to have a daughter just like my niece soon. But I do agree totally if you are not ready or don't want to, it should be up to you/your spouse. From my observation, too many folks having kids and then just toss them aside/ignore them/not taken care of them the best that they should be.

 

[Ns1]

For those that against having kid(s), imagine if your parents did not want any kids, you would not be born and be here to participate in this thread?

Already covered numerous times.