Not to Open This Canna Worms Again, But...

[Danmansonman]

Cooked properly? Well in the mean time millions of people are enjoying the benefits of SSD. Using a PC with an HDD just makes me agitated now, far too slow. I haven't had a problem with an SSD since my first one 2 years ago.

This is the fastest system I have ever owned as it stands and as I have configured it. I have no need for faster. Plus the extent to which some people, not all, say 8 is faster, remains very small. When SDDs evolve/mature to the point I feel they are "cooked" properly, I will get one.

I come to nothing capriciously.

 

[ninaholic37]

Some people still use 98 or XP. There's no discrimination against them. What we do have is discrimination against windows 8, that's the whole reason this particular thread was started, to bash windows 8. I don't like seafood, I hate it, but I don't go around posting threads about how stupid seafood is and I can't believe people actually eat it.

I'd say it's more like the world canceling all your favorite foods, and replacing them with seafood, and trying to force everyone to eat seafood. Every store I go to is selling Windows 8 laptops and hardly anything else, not Windows 7 or XP or 98. Are you sure you want everywhere to only sell seafood, and try to force you to "upgrade" to seafood when you eat something else? I'd actually prefer buying seafood over Windows 8.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'm surprised more OEMs aren't selling laptops with Linux on them,

I just bought an 11.6" Asus, with Ubuntu GNU/Linux on it, for $200. No touch-screen. Sadly, the RAM and the battery are not removable either.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'd say it's more like the world canceling all your favorite foods, and replacing them with seafood, and trying to force everyone to eat seafood. Every store I go to is selling Windows 8 laptops and hardly anything else, not Windows 7 or XP or 98.

Well put. In the olden days, Capitalism, was about providing for a market need. Not controlling the market and forcing people to buy products by enslaving their livelyhood (their data).

 

[xSauronx]

Well put. In the olden days, Capitalism, was about providing for a market need. Not controlling the market and forcing people to buy products by enslaving their livelyhood (their data).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip

but on topic: i have windows 8 at home on my pc, no touch. i sort of like it, but the way i work on my pc means i dont have to interact with metro-y pieces much. i dont hate metro/tiles, i just dont need it on a regular pc so i dont interact with it really.

i also have windows 8.1 on my work laptop. i like the unified search (which is how it should have been to start) but the OS team stole the One Note screen clip shortcut (win+s) and that pisses me off.

win+q gives you the search bar
win key + just typing gives you the search bar
now win+s ALSO gives you the search bar, needlessly, and they stole my one note shortcut in the process. had to change the registry to set the key to win+a (an update to one note later will make it default to win+shift+s which is crap)

other than that I like it ok. if you skip the metro stuff without a touch screen and set up your pc decently theres nothing wrong with windows 8.

its here, its going to stay here, make it work for you (or stay on windows 7, which i still like a lot)

 

[glugglug]

I would love to see a video of your 7 machine booting in 10 seconds or less. The difference is not 3 seconds

Unless Windows 8 goes back in time during the boot process, the difference can't be more than 3 seconds, as my newer Windows 7 machine takes less than 3 seconds to boot. A true cold boot is slower because it has to wait for the 6 4TB RED drives to spin up (4 for DrivePool 2 for backup). But a restart from the start menu is under 3 seconds if there are no updates being applied. In fact I'd say its a bit faster than when I tried Windows 8 and 8.1 on the same machine.

 

[flexy]

I don't like seafood, I hate it, but I don't go around posting threads about how stupid seafood is and I can't believe people actually eat it.

This example doesn't work either.

There is nothing wrong with going around and openly asking about the (non)sense trying to sell a touch-focused OS across ALL platforms and wondering loudly WTF a touch-based OS is supposed to do on a desktop PC or any other device which does not have touch.

There is also nothing wrong with going around and, say, openly voicing that crocks (or the Windows 8 UI for that matter) look extremely visually appalling. (At least to me).

Obviously, I am not alone with my opinion. Microsoft has a monopoly for PC OS (Linux etc. doesn't count really since it's not a "real" alternative for many)..and when a company uses their monopoly to force odd things onto people there is nothing wrong with voicing disagreement.

Your food example is a matter of taste..and therefore subjective, it cannot really be argued whether someone who likes seafood is "right"...but I can make a rational argument why TOUCH doesn't make sense on a desktop..this is nothing subjective.

 

[WilliamM2]

I would love to see a video of your 7 machine booting in 10 seconds or less. The difference is not 3 seconds, I also use 7 and 8 on similar spec machines with SSD's. 7 is great, it's fast, but it's definitely more than 3 seconds behind on a cold boot. If it takes you a few seconds to click in to desktop from Start, then there is something you doing wrong. Not to mention 8.1 boots straight to desktop, like 7.

Where did I say it booted in less than 10 seconds? It boots 7 in 14 seconds, and 8 in 11 seconds. This includes waiting for the bios, and the Intel OROM to load. And no, I'm not going to make a video for you.

How many times a day do you boot your computer anyways? Who really cares how fast it is, when the difference is only seconds? Like I asked before, anything else besides booting?

 

[darkewaffle]

but I can make a rational argument why TOUCH doesn't make sense on a desktop..this is nothing subjective.

Rational is not the same thing as objective, most users are not inclined to give "touch" on desktop a chance simply because "it shouldn't be that way, I have a mouse". But I like touch-influenced interaction on the desktop. Opera's mouse gestures are convenient and easy and have been around since 2001 - and they're nothing more than "touch movements" performed with a mouse. Fairly well-received addons implementing mouse gestures also exist for Chrome, Firefox, IE and other programs. Neverwinter Nights (also 2001) made extensive use of a "radial" menu to perform dozens of actions with a flick of the mouse - again, nothing more than gestures beneath a menu overlay. Even Win7 natively supported some gestures with Aero Snap/Shake/Peek. This is far from something that's brand new or untested - it's been a long time coming and it can be a more comfortable/convenient option even on desktops.

"Touch" and "mouse" are not some set of completely distinct, incommunicable universes: most interaction with a mouse can be mirrored through touch and vice versa. A drag is a drag, a point is a point, a click is a tap, a gesture is a gesture, right click is [usually] tap and hold. It's not perfect but they overlap more often than not in my opinion and I don't understand the constant posturing that the two usage models are somehow mutually exclusive. Multi-touch interaction and 'precision' pointing are admittedly points of probable incompatibility, but both sides cover the basics and have their own respective strengths and weaknesses.

I do think that Microsoft's modern UI implementation needs some work, but not because of "how" it works, rather I think the design is just too cluttered currently. I think it's choice of 'edge' interaction is not particularly intuitive and there are too many 'bars' available such that it becomes complicated for users to keep track of what does what/what is located where.

 

[flexy]

I now finally came around to actually INSTALL Win8.1 and gave it some test run.

IN PRINCIPLE....I "like" it especially after I installed "classic shell".

But to be honest, I can't for the sake of it not see the point since ALL of the "new" features I consider either *) unnecessary or *) confusing...some things are just totally odd.

I really only installed it because "people said" it has a better, more efficient memory handling, task scheduler, DX11.2 features and some people said eg. that BF4 runs better with 8.1. So it's the underlying alleged improvements why I want to try it out.

MS has some habit to add really, really annoying things to their OS, I am not talking about Metro/Touch per se now..but stupid things like the MSN sign-in in the beginning. I had to use some ancient MSN account from 90 years ago to even "sign in" into the desktop. Then it used my real name from the MSN as my username as the Windows user (which I really didn't like)...so I somehow found that you can actually sign-out and can use a "local" account. So I signed in with the local account which is now my nickname "flexy", but the actual account (folder name in Win) is still set to my real name. Things like that.

Oh..the FIRST thing I did was download palemoon...then the "security scanner" took like a minute to scan the download and gave an entirely nonsensical warning that the "file is properly unsafe" and it prevented it from running....so I needed to click here and there to get it run anyway... THE USUAL ANNOYANCES.

Overall, and I freely admit it, I like it better than I thought but it still feels more like Win7 where someone deliberately added annoying things.

Boot screen is hideous awful looking...so were the messages when I installed it...(Hi! Now let's start etc..)...and that color-changing screen there. Seriously....for a second I had the feeling it's like a parody or something. Install itself was very fast.

 

[CRCSUX]

@flexy im glad you tried it, some of the stuff does seem confusing but I got use to it and maybe you will if you keep using it.

Here a page on how to install without using a ms live account as your username
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/HowToSignIntoWindows8Or81WithoutAMicrosoftAccountMakeALocalUser.aspx

Use express setting > Dont have an account > sign in without account > input user name/password

 

[flexy]

I took the plunge, and after some fail attempts I updated my Win 7 Pro to Win 8, and then to Win8.1

I am VERY pleased, basically ALL my programs are retained, Desktop etc. looks the same as it ever was (I also installed "classic shell" after I put 8.1 on there).

At this second I wouldn't even know I am on 8!

I mean, I want to provide constructive input here and I hope it helps someone who like me hated Win8.

**
Issued I encountered: Before I did the update I deinstalled PerfectDisk, Daemon Tools and uninstalled Audigy 2 drivers (which I will re-install in a second).

No issues with any "apps" (I ABSOLUTELY HATE THAT WORD, BY THE WAY)...and no issues with Nvidia drivers etc...had the latest anyway 331.56

 

[taq8ojh]

I tried the Windows 8.1 trial a few days ago. This was my very first and last experience with that OS. I just wanted to see with my own eyes what is was like.

I was disgusted during the installation already, because requiring users to register at Microsoft is completely retarded. Also, rapidly changing bright shades of green-blue-red-purple background almost made me throw up and go into epilepsy attack.

When the system booted, I was horrified. It's completely counter-intuitive and awkward as hell. I was staring at bright coloured rectangles which represented completely useless apps I didn't ask for (nor was I presented with any choices of installation). There is no indication how to control the whole thing whatsoever.
I was randomly mousing over the whole desktop until I found out some sort of menu appeared near right edge. Interesting fact is even the most basic things like opening Control panel or shuttting your PC down take ton (relatively to the outdated and useless previous version) of clicking through illogically designed menus.

The MOST important feature of this highly innovative and productive OS seems to be SHARE!!!!

I accidentally managed to switch to the classic desktop by trying to open Task manager with my usual Ctrl-Shift-Esc combination.
Yay, no Aero, so the desktop looks like crap. How innovative!
The only difference really is just the desktop looks, the controls are useless in the same way as in the colouring book for five years old default style.
I also thought to update graphic drivers, opened AMD web from this new highly optimized IE11, and the page refused to render properly.
Then I shut the whole thing down and promised myself not to touch this again to keep myself sane.

It was worth getting first hand experience though. I can finally tell people to stay the hell away from this abomination of an OS without feeling bad for parroting things I read on the internets instead of experiencing them myself.

 

[JEDIYoda]

wow-- I just Love 8.1!! I did not have to register at Microsoft and it is now on all 3 of my machines!

No issues at all!!

Very nice OS!!

 

[Doomer]

By this time everyone should know why people are supporting Windows 8.

 

[flexy]

Read my above post, I used to hate it as well but my desktop really looks like my Win7 desktop and I see HARDLY anything of Metro.

Really, 99% of working in 8 is like with Win7.

HOWEVER, there are some awkward things, definitely, but those are mostly hidden settings or so where you are used to do it one way and now it's all awkward.

BUT...aside from those things, this is actually no "issue" for me.

The much bigger problem for me was LOTS of crashes and hangs after I installed 8.1. (I am aware those issues may come from my already installed drivers and appLICATIONS (if anyone else says "apps" again I am handing out slaps!! It's a PC and not a effing iPhone) ...but now I somehow got the system stable. I had to actually restore the sys because "something" seriously, seriously screwed up my system earlier incl. file system corruption etc.

One annoyance for example are also smaller things which are still undocumented, for example you CAN NOT simply permanently deactivate driver signing enforcement with BCDEDIT but must do it only on that weird start-screen, despite what other people claim. The result was that I assumed that for some old devices my unsigned driver had been loaded, BUT THEY DID IN FACT NOT. Overall, the entire system is somewhat "flaky" still, I will still see how it goes).

 

[flexy]

Want to add something:

When I installed a FRESH copy before, I was dumb-founded because I was entirely unable to put my folder icons, control-panel etc. on the desktop as I always do. I looked a long time but couldn't figure it out. There was also no options like in Win7 to simply put CP or whatever other stuff on the desktop.

When I UPGRADED from 7 to 8 to 8.1 however, all my stuff from Win7 is on the desktop again, my HD/Volume folders, control-panel etc. as I had before.

So in other words: You can still DO all this but MS just made things totally awkward so as to piss off desktop users.

 

[RandomFool]

Windows 8.1 is much better than 8 but even Win8 wasn't terrible. I haven't had problems with either of them. Metro mode is awesome for my Media PC.

I've found that a lot of people hate change and love to bash Microsoft.

 

[tommyncal]

As someone stated above, WOW! This thread is mesmerizing. I was over at the General Hardware sub-forum getting advice on upgrading my old XP system. Unfortunately, I also decided it was time to change my OS. I would keep XP but from what I'm told it's not very compatible with a SSD. I'm totally satisfied with XP and it does everything I need it to do, which, I'll admit, I'm a basic user with no frills. So my dilemma is whether to choose a new retail copy of W8.1 @ $110 or W7 @ $210.
How much more trouble is it to learn how to use 8.1? And why am I being charged double to buy W7????

 

[glugglug]

You are getting ripped off anyplace that is selling W7 for $210. It doesn't take very long to find it around $70 or less. OK, most of these are a bit sketchy and appear to be Dell/HP volume licenses that happen to work on any PC. But you can get a for-sure non-volume system builder OEM W7 Home Premium from NewEgg for $99. Even Pro you can get for $139 (or $85 for the Dell/HP version).

 

[tommyncal]

I did say retail, like on Amazon. So, if I bought the OEM version, is it tied to my motherboard? And if it fails, then what?

 

[glugglug]

I think it legally is tied to the PC. But I've never had upgrades/part replacements be an issue, even when the change causes Windows to detect you have a "new PC" -- for example, adding memory will break the DRM that Windows uses to tie videos to your PC as well as old system restore point access because it thinks its a new machine. But if this moving to a "new machine" isn't happening very frequently, it won't give any problems with activation. The closest to an exception I've seen is flashing my UEFI BIOS causes Windows and a few other apps to think it's a new machine and require re-activation, and when trying to get things working right in 8, I did this enough times it made me call a MS automated phone # to type some numbers in for the reactivation instead of just doing it online.

 

[tommyncal]

Sounds good then. If everything goes right, I wont have to change anything for a long , long time. Or, until Microsoft comes out with Windows 9, lol.

 

[CRCSUX]

I tried the Windows 8.1 trial a few days ago. This was my very first and last experience with that OS. I just wanted to see with my own eyes what is was like.

I was disgusted during the installation already, because requiring users to register at Microsoft is completely retarded...

Read post #86 and stop spreading false info.

...Heres a page on how to install without using a ms live account as your username
http://www.hanselman.com/blog/HowToSignIntoWindows8Or81WithoutAMicrosoftAccountMakeALocalUser.aspx

Use express setting > Dont have an account > sign in without account > input user name/password

 

[JEDIYoda]

I tried the Windows 8.1 trial a few days ago. This was my very first and last experience with that OS. I just wanted to see with my own eyes what is was like.

gotta love little kids spreading false information...