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(not my title, article title) Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance?

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CADsortaGUY said:
You yet again assume that I think medicare is constitutional. Yes, it's institutional but when looked at in a strict constructionist way, it most certainly is not.
Also, there is another difference you fringe leftists seem to ignore - and that is the individual forced payment to a company by the feds in the house bill. Never before has there been an individual mandate like this so it's asinine for you to think that "this is easily so"(constitutional).
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We'll certainly see won't we? It will be viewed as a tax, and that will be the end of it. It's not that conservatives won't try, but they will fail.

Oh, and good luck on getting Medicare ruled unconstitutional too. Even a court this far to the right would laugh you out of it.
 
eskimospy said:
We'll certainly see won't we? It will be viewed as a tax, and that will be the end of it. It's not that conservatives won't try, but they will fail.

Oh, and good luck on getting Medicare ruled unconstitutional too. Even a court this far to the right would laugh you out of it.
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A "tax" that goes to Insurance companies? Surely you can't seriously think that's going to fly.

No, I doubt Medicare will be ruled unconstitutional. 1. No one seems to have the balls to challenge it since it's been institutionalized for so long. 2. The Court looks to foreign entities on it's rulings now(which is wrong on it's own) so I have no doubt the leftists on the court wouldn't even allow it to be heard if they could.
 
OCGuy said:
Are you saying they dont?

We have the most advanced medical staff/hospitals in the world. The problem is that our averages are brought down by the bottom of society.

We dont have the resources to provide that level of care to everyone, so we rank lower in international surveys.

We will never be a nordic Eutopia like some here think can happen. We share a border with an extremely poor country, and encourage the uneducated to migrate here.

I think it is about time we change it to "Give us your smart, your wealthy..."
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Really? What country is that?
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Kind of funny considering you seem to be a thumper yourself. Without any evidence at all that this would be a benefit here in the US (no you may not use pixie dust or magic missile spells to import such a system) you get up on the platform and preach your particular faith, and intend to use the weight of the law to get it.

The Church of the Single Payor.

We need to keep religion out of government.
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Is this the anti-Christ of the Church of the Trust-the-Insurance-Companies-to-do-the-Right-Thing Because Free Markets are Always Wonderful?

We need to keep religion out of the health system.
 
shira said:
Is this the anti-Christ of the Church of the Trust-the-Insurance-Companies-to-do-the-Right-Thing Because Free Markets are Always Wonderful?

We need to keep religion out of the health system.
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Nope, not even close. Someone wants to sell me a better system, show me that it's better, not pine for some other nation who's political system and demographics aren't ours. I look how medicaid has been around for decades, yet it gets more elaborate, more expensive and does a horrid job of actually providing care, yet gives away a boatload of money for the trival, a program no doubt would have been in the "Praise Government, the Government is one" praise category.

Well it sucks, and if a relatively small program can't be reformed to something better, how do you expect the skeptics to buy into it?

I'm an agnostic regarding the government. You aren't.

Single payor will fix all, you believe it, and that settles it.
 
OCGuy said:
Are you saying they dont?
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FYI, a lot of Americans go to other countries for healthcare. There are hospitals that are run like resorts, where the patients feel like they are on vacation. I was reading about it in a medical magazine while I was in for a physical one time a couple years ago. It was an article about the growing trend of Americans travelling to other countries for healthcare.
 
Malak said:
FYI, a lot of Americans go to other countries for healthcare. There are hospitals that are run like resorts, where the patients feel like they are on vacation. I was reading about it in a medical magazine while I was in for a physical one time a couple years ago. It was an article about the growing trend of Americans travelling to other countries for healthcare.
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And alot of people come to the USA for healthcare. Whats your point??
 
Malak said:
FYI, a lot of Americans go to other countries for healthcare. There are hospitals that are run like resorts, where the patients feel like they are on vacation. I was reading about it in a medical magazine while I was in for a physical one time a couple years ago. It was an article about the growing trend of Americans travelling to other countries for healthcare.
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For quality or price?
 
WhipperSnapper said:
It's too bad our congressmen won't just drop this charade and advocate something that has actually been proven to work--real single player socialized medicine--like what the UK has. Amazingly, they do it while spending a smaller percentage of GDP on it.

Instead, the United States will continue with its current system and continue to have mass suffering and be the laughing stock of the rest of the world.
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Yes, how many people from outside the UK go there to get treatment? Now how many people from outside the US come here to get treatment??

The UK kind of works in that you can see a Dr. eventually. Just recently there was an article about a pregnant woman about to give birth that was turned away from a hospital.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ers-birth-lifts-offices-hospital-toilets.html
Yeah, if you want to live like that move there. This is America and America was the greatest nation in the world because of the way we did things. Somehow a bunch of pussies got into office and fucked it all up and are destroying this nation from the inside.
 
shiner said:
Did you not read the article?

"President Obama said that penalties are appropriate for people who try to “free ride” the health care system but stopped short of endorsing the threat of jail time for those who refuse to pay a fine for not having insurance."

and

"Under the House bill those who can afford to buy insurance and don’t’ pay a fine. If the refuse to pay that fine there’s a threat – as with a lot of tax fines – of jail time. The Senate removed that provision in the Senate Finance Committee."
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fwiw, if it's in the bill the house passed then it could be added back in during conference. obamarama could threaten to veto if its in the presented version, of course.
 
There's no such thing as job creation, and there's no such thing as "Free Health Care".

There is such a thing as imposed health care. This will create shortages and higher prices. This is economics. There is mounds of historical precidence, but no one cares about that, or they weren't taught it, in the biggest example of historical precidence, the public school system.

I cannot sing of liberty in a country with such notions of force, both domestically and internationally, both socially and financially.
 
gwydion75 said:
There's no such thing as job creation, and there's no such thing as "Free Health Care".

There is such a thing as imposed health care. This will create shortages and higher prices. This is economics. There is mounds of historical precidence, but no one cares about that, or they weren't taught it, in the biggest example of historical precidence, the public school system.

I cannot sing of liberty in a country with such notions of force, both domestically and internationally, both socially and financially.
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Except of course for the precedent of every single other industrialized nation on earth, all of which have 'imposed health care' along with vastly lower costs.
 
eskimospy said:
Except of course for the precedent of every single other industrialized nation on earth, all of which have 'imposed health care' along with vastly lower costs.
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Those are rose-colored glasses, if I've ever seen them. Please cite your source. I'd like you to include the consumer cost at the window, the consumer cost monthly for the service/insurance, and the tax per capita for the medical services section of the nations budget, added together and presented to this thread before you can make a claim like that.

Also, your precident is true, there are many other nations that have "imposed health care", but that isnt the precident I was refering to. I was refering to the economic precident of government involvement equating to increased costs.

Your precident also doesn't address the reduction of liberty caused by such endeavors.
 
dmcowen674 said:
The insurance took like $25 off, like I said fucking useless considering how much a month I pay.
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Maybe you've been drinking too much of that $5 a gallon milk? Perhaps you need to live a healthier lifestyle if you can't afford the consequences of your actions.

But seriously, are you the unluckiest person on the planet? You pay $5 for milk, $5 for gas, $300 for a prescription, you almost get thrown in jail for illegally installing software, every business venture you try fails, every job you get you lose.. You voted for Bush..

My god man.. You might need an exorcism or something to account for all of this.
 
gwydion75 said:
Those are rose-colored glasses, if I've ever seen them. Please cite your source. I'd like you to include the consumer cost at the window, the consumer cost monthly for the service/insurance, and the tax per capita for the medical services section of the nations budget, added together and presented to this thread before you can make a claim like that.

Also, your precident is true, there are many other nations that have "imposed health care", but that isnt the precident I was refering to. I was refering to the economic precident of government involvement equating to increased costs.

Your precident also doesn't address the reduction of liberty caused by such endeavors.
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Really? You aren't aware of the disparity in per capita health care spending between the US and every other industrialized nation on earth? That includes the consumer cost at the window, the cost monthly for the service/insurance, and the tax per capita. I thought my statement was pretty common knowledge.

For you to read: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_spe_per_per-health-spending-per-person

Specifically note these are PPP dollars, so the differences have cost of living and everything already weighted in to them, allowing for a direct comparison. As you can clearly see not only do we pay more, we pay a LOT more.

If you need more sources I can provide you with about 1,000 more that will say the same thing.
 
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