(not my title, article title) Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance?

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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,872
4,216
126
Many of our congressmen and women WOULD advocate a single-payer system if there weren't so many of those wacko, free-enterprise-orgasmic bible-thumpers out there.

Not that all bible-thumpers are wacko (or orgasmic). But too many of them are.

Kind of funny considering you seem to be a thumper yourself. Without any evidence at all that this would be a benefit here in the US (no you may not use pixie dust or magic missile spells to import such a system) you get up on the platform and preach your particular faith, and intend to use the weight of the law to get it.

The Church of the Single Payor.

We need to keep religion out of government.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,030
2
61
I pay $350 a month now and cannot afford to go to the doctor since the insurance covers nothing.

You tell me, will the Messiah's version be better?

I'd like to at least give it a try.
I hope you do not meet the requirements for the government option, and your current insurance premiums increase.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Oh, so you don't have to pay medicare taxes? So being forced to pay for health care that you can't use = constitutional, but being forced to pay for health care that you CAN use = unconstitutional.

Gotcha.
You yet again assume that I think medicare is constitutional. Yes, it's institutional but when looked at in a strict constructionist way, it most certainly is not.
Also, there is another difference you fringe leftists seem to ignore - and that is the individual forced payment to a company by the feds in the house bill. Never before has there been an individual mandate like this so it's asinine for you to think that "this is easily so"(constitutional).
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,872
4,216
126
I hope you do not meet the requirements for the government option, and your current insurance premiums increase.
If he doesn't get a benefit then he should go elsewhere.

I'm suspecting that he has a deductible.


$900? What did she pay for the meds?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,872
4,216
126
Yes, $2,500 deductible

It's Blue Cross and useless.

When used to go to Drug store it was $300 a month just for the statin (Crestor) alone. Now go to Wal mart and down to $170 a month.

That's about what I figured. Understand that any plan (including single payor) will most likely have something very much like that.

If you are cash strapped, WallyWorld is a good place to shop for meds. Pharmacy has become a loss-leader there for the rest of the store. Might as well take advantage of it.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
21,595
1,058
126
Yes, $2,500 deductible

It's Blue Cross and useless.

When used to go to Drug store it was $300 a month just for the statin (Crestor) alone. Now go to Wal mart and down to $170 a month.
You dont have RX coverage? Thats like full retail.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
0
0
As has been mentioned in previous threads, no it won't. The IRS does not pursue tax liabilities in the amounts we are talking with jail time.
The IRS may not toss people with tax liabilities into jail for small amounts of money, but they certainly have the option to do it. It's always a threat that they can hold over their victims as they pursue tax liabilities and penalties. The threat is there and it's a valid threat of incarceration for not paying your health care bill.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
That's about what I figured. Understand that any plan (including single payor) will most likely have something very much like that.

If you are cash strapped, WallyWorld is a good place to shop for meds. Pharmacy has become a loss-leader there for the rest of the store. Might as well take advantage of it.
Well then I am already used to it, may as well have the rest of the country join me. Go Messiah Go
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
But will I be able to afford to go the doctor?

My wife went recently for ordinary check up and prescription renewal and it cost $900.

So are you saying it will be $900 a month? $1,800 a month for two?

What will it be?
Two comments:
If you are on the up and up - then :
a) You have done a lousy job shopping for insurance or
b) You have a pre-existing condition that is shafting you.

I pay $600/month for my insurance as a small business for wife and myself w/ a $50 copay.
Meds are $25 max - most we get at WallyWorld for $4-$10.

Even if you are getting coverage through youremployer - it is lousy enough, that I would recommend that you shop for personal. Aetna, Cigna, MidWest are a few options other than BC/BS

If you are exagerating for sympathy or chain pulling
Go back to TFNN or ABT


Most areas have medical clinics where you can see the MD or PT for a small fee. Before insurance, I would pay $25 copay and $60/month for use of the clinic. That would also cover initial Xrays
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
I don't know if you've used one of these, but there is a way to get a month of Crestor for free, and discounts on future purchases.

Hey, it's something. I don't give a shit about politics. I want to see good health care, so I'm a hard sell.

Anyway

https://www.crestor.com/c/take-action-kit/index.aspx
Thanks for the link. Before Wally world you know what I did.

The Crestor comes from here in the U.S., well I ordered it online and it came from India for half the price. The drug comes from here, goes to India and comes back at half the price. Insane.

Our system is a fucking joke and it's on us.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
The IRS may not toss people with tax liabilities into jail for small amounts of money, but they certainly have the option to do it. It's always a threat that they can hold over their victims as they pursue tax liabilities and penalties. The threat is there and it's a valid threat of incarceration for not paying your health care bill.
(I'm a tax CPA) No, the IRS cannot put you in jail for not paying (unless it's criminal tax fraud and that's quite rare). Non payment of taxes and/or fines is a civil violation. Only criminal violations can result in jail.

OTOH, the IRS has very powerful collection tools. They can grab your money or property to settle amounts due.

If a HC bill passed authorizing jail time, I must assume that bill would have to classify non-payment of the fine as a criminal matter. Since it would (apparently) be a federal crime I believe you'd have to go to a federal facility (a fed prison, since I don't believe the feds have any jails).

Anyway, the concept of debtors prison was repusive to our Founding Fathers, and I cannot see this 'jail' time idea passing into law. Not only would it cause an outrage, but it's too stupid. It would be incredibly costly and terribly ineffective. Jails/prison are quite costly, not to mention the lawyers and court time. And a person in jail/prison isn't earning any money, so can't pay. No, they'd be much better off to just use powerful collection tools to enforce payment (heck, even that's costly).

Fern
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Two comments:
If you are on the up and up - then :
a) You have done a lousy job shopping for insurance or
b) You have a pre-existing condition that is shafting you.

I pay $600/month for my insurance as a small business for wife and myself w/ a $50 copay.
Meds are $25 max - most we get at WallyWorld for $4-$10.

Even if you are getting coverage through youremployer - it is lousy enough, that I would recommend that you shop for personal. Aetna, Cigna, MidWest are a few options other than BC/BS

If you are exagerating for sympathy or chain pulling
Go back to TFNN or ABT


Most areas have medical clinics where you can see the MD or PT for a small fee. Before insurance, I would pay $25 copay and $60/month for use of the clinic. That would also cover initial Xrays
It is Blue Cross through employer. $25 co-pay. Most of her Meds are the $4 to $10. Two of them account for the bulk of the bill that are high cost.

What Insurance Co is your business using? Are they strictly business only?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
And a person in jail/prison isn't earning any money, so can't pay.
Sounds like a town here that passed a law because they have a homeless guy on the steps of the town hall for last two years.

They passed law that they will fine you $100 a day for camping illegally.

Like that will work. The guy is already broke and homeless.

Try and collect the $100 a day out of him.

Idiots.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
Are you refuting what I am saying or are you just attacking me because you cant?
What, exactly, ARE you saying? I've read several posts of yours in this thread, and have no idea what point you're trying to make.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,325
126
I imagine someone will try, and they will almost certainly lose. If Medicare is constitutional (and it is), then this is easily so.
I don't know. Medicare is a tax collected by the government. What we are talking about is the government forcing you to purchase something from a private company or face fine/jail.

So the question is, if the government forces everyone to purchase a product from private companies is it considered a tax? If not I don't see how it would be constitutional.

And I am sorry, but forcing people to purchase liability insurance if they intend on driving (insuring damage you directly incur onto OTHER people or property) is nowhere near comparable to forcing people to purchase medical insurance (insurance for yourself) if they intend on breathing.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
0
0
(I'm a tax CPA) No, the IRS cannot put you in jail for not paying (unless it's criminal tax fraud and that's quite rare). Non payment of taxes and/or fines is a civil violation. Only criminal violations can result in jail.

OTOH, the IRS has very powerful collection tools. They can grab your money or property to settle amounts due.

If a HC bill passed authorizing jail time, I must assume that bill would have to classify non-payment of the fine as a criminal matter. Since it would (apparently) be a federal crime I believe you'd have to go to a federal facility (a fed prison, since I don't believe the feds have any jails).

Anyway, the concept of debtors prison was repusive to our Founding Fathers, and I cannot see this 'jail' time idea passing into law. Not only would it cause an outrage, but it's too stupid. It would be incredibly costly and terribly ineffective. Jails/prison are quite costly, not to mention the lawyers and court time. And a person in jail/prison isn't earning any money, so can't pay. No, they'd be much better off to just use powerful collection tools to enforce payment (heck, even that's costly).

Fern
Thank you for the clarification Fern, i was wrong earlier.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,325
126
The insurance took like $25 off, like I said fucking useless considering how much a month I pay.
You act like there is some law forcing you to buy insurance.

I don't wish harm on anyone but as much as you do it would be truly ironic if you are forced by the government to continue paying for that shitty insurance. You can keep on wishing for some "free" but I doubt you will qualify.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
6
81
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