North Korea threatening physical response this weekend

[Kirby]

*snip*

Good insight, but I hope you're wrong.

It may be naive to hope that one day both Koreas can sit down to a bottle of soju together, but I still think the effort is worth it.

Military action should the very last resort, if not for us, for them. The people have been fucked enough for the last 60 years, even if they don't know it.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Good insight, but I hope you're wrong.

It may be naive to hope that one day both Koreas can sit down to a bottle of soju together, but I still think the effort is worth it.

Military action should the very last resort, if not for us, for them. The people have been fucked enough for the last 60 years, even if they don't know it.

Unfortunately, I don't believe anything sort of military intervention would unite them again. If Dear Leader kicks the bucket tomorrow, one of his kids will take over. Even if said kid had some sort of western exposure and wants to be the "saviour" of NK, I'm sure there are ample hardliners in the military who would make sure that does not happen.

It is a sad, tragic situation almost without parallel in the modern world. It kind of makes me think that Truman should have listened to McArthur, as that might have been our only window to save those people.

 

[Brainonska511]

It is a sad, tragic situation almost without parallel in the modern world. It kind of makes me think that Truman should have listened to McArthur, as that might have been our only window to save those people.

No, we should have listened to other generals and officials, not McArthur, and not tried to involve the Chinese. We could have had most of NK and a better holding position instead of the broad front that we had when the Chinese entered the war b/c of their fear we would invade.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

No, we should have listened to other generals and officials, not McArthur, and not tried to involve the Chinese. We could have had most of NK and a better holding position instead of the broad front that we had when the Chinese entered the war b/c of their fear we would invade.

There is definitely merit to that argument as well, but I seriously wonder if China would not have gotten involved at all had we stayed below the 38th parallel or stopped after we took Pyongyang, for example. I think they still would have had some involvement.

 

[Exterous]

The people have been fucked enough for the last 60 years, even if they don't know it.

The sad part is they would most likely fight tooth and nail to keep what they know. I wonder the lives and cost taht would be involved in rescuing people that don't want to be rescued

 

[Darwin333]

Modelworks

I can't believe a C130 ever landed on a carrier!

The F-22 also likely lacks the beefy landing gear required for carrier landings. I also doubt they can be easily equipped with a tail hook.

I think most AF planes have tailhooks on them although I believe they are designed differently. A Navy landing on a carrier is a controlled crash whereas an AF jet might need to land on a short runway and require some assistance to slow down a bit. I could be wrong and if I am the .mil folk will surely correct me.

Regardless, if you get enough wind moving over the deck you could potentially land a plane damn near like a VTOL so I am sure its possible but is it probable with the most expensive jet in history in a non-war/non-emergency situation?

The biggest issue is the plane taking off again, planes don't really "take off" on an aircraft carrier. They are launched off of it with a steam powered catapult kind of like those toy planes with the rubber band launcher. The F22 doesn't have the capability to be hooked up to the launcher and I don't think its as easy as bolting on a few parts (I would assume if the landing gear isn't made specifically for that the catapult would rip the gear right off the plane). You ever see someone hook up a tow strap to someones bumper and pull the bumper right off the car? Those catapults don't fuck around.

Of course my knowledge of the subject is pretty much limited to the discovery and .mil channels...

 

[Jiggz]

its gonna end in tears, mark my words.

Naw. . . Just like an empty can making a lot of noise, NK is doing the same!

 

[Modelworks]

Modelworks

I can't believe a C130 ever landed on a carrier!

Not just landed but took off too !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjNyQvhsQE8&feature=related

The F-22 also likely lacks the beefy landing gear required for carrier landings. I also doubt they can be easily equipped with a tail hook.

The tail hook remains part of the design and is used for landing on short runways.

http://www.nowpublic.com/tech-biz/f-22-raptor-kadena-afb-landing-tail-hook

It's also been my experience that each service crams every cubic inch of cockpit space in their aircraft with what they think is useful gear. I doubt that there empty spaces for the Navy's landing aids, even if the pilots knew how to use them properly.

It uses programmable displays and controls.The days of a pilot being in physical control of the plane are gone. Every single thing the pilot does is input to the computer that then applies the changes to the aircraft. It just isn't practical to have a pilot making all the adjustments to flight at mach 2 🙂
The pilot is free to focus on the target

 

[pcgeek11]

your assertion that there are any parallels in the current wars vs ww2 is frankly preposterous.

I was not making a direct parallel to the current wars with WWII. Just war in general. War is a messy brutal undertaking. To attempt to fight a War without collateral damage is foolish and makes for an unattainable goal. I am not saying we should go in a slaughter the entire population. But to hold back the forces as we are currently ( Rules of engagement ) doing is stupid on so many levels. As in you cannot shoot back unless you actually see the enemy with the gun pointed at you actually firing. WTF is that. Also when we charge our servicemen with a crime and court martial them because some terrorist prisoner ended up with a bruise and a fat lip is totally retarded ( reference the three Navy Seals ).

There are way too many weak bladder pvssies running the wars. If we are going to fight lets do it, if not we can and should stay home.

Were you ever in the military?
************************************

 

[pcgeek11]

I'm no huge fan of the UN, but to say they weren't worth anything in this conflict is absolutely false. It wasn't just the US, but 20+ countries.

I know we weren't the only country in Korea, Duh I never said we were. My opinion still stands on the UN. The UN isn't worth squat and they never accomplish anything, but to complicate matters. When a body has countries such as China and Iran with leadership positions for Human / Womens rights ... what does that tell you?

I'll restate my comment: The UN is more than useless in ANY Conflict.

 

[jackschmittusa]

EagleKeeper

Thanks for the vid of a C130 landing on a carrier. Amazing! Never would have thought it possible.

 

[LegendKiller]

EagleKeeper

Thanks for the vid of a C130 landing on a carrier. Amazing! Never would have thought it possible.

Pretty reasonable to me. The C-130 is a tough bitch designed to land on hard surfaces and short runways, always been like that. Probably one of our better designs.

I highly doubt NK is going to pull anything.

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsub/20100714.aspx

That alone is enough to pause any single country out there. You can guarantee that at least a couple of those ~616 Tomahawks are nuclear tipped.

 

[manimal]

I was not making a direct parallel to the current wars with WWII. Just war in general. War is a messy brutal undertaking. To attempt to fight a War without collateral damage is foolish and makes for an unattainable goal. I am not saying we should go in a slaughter the entire population. But to hold back the forces as we are currently ( Rules of engagement ) doing is stupid on so many levels. As in you cannot shoot back unless you actually see the enemy with the gun pointed at you actually firing. WTF is that. Also when we charge our servicemen with a crime and court martial them because some terrorist prisoner ended up with a bruise and a fat lip is totally retarded ( reference the three Navy Seals ).

There are way too many weak bladder pvssies running the wars. If we are going to fight lets do it, if not we can and should stay home.

Were you ever in the military?
************************************

No I was never in the military but I do have degrees in History, journalism, and Italian history. Many in the military have said the paradigm of large pitched battles with a clear enemy is gone for the foreseeable future. If we kill 20 insurgents to 1 innocent bystander that is just too many. We validate terrorist recruiting with every fat lip as you say. If we were to learn anything from Bob Mcnamara is that without winning the hearts and minds of the enemy victory is all but impossible in that part of the world. What would be gained from leveling all the cities and villages in Afghanistan? Those people lead lives of misery as it is and only know the western world by the bombs that kill their children and assassinate their leaders.

Current controversial military philosophy is not popular with the troops and so what if it is for that matter. When in military history did the troops have anything to say about leadership or direction?

Those weak bladder pussies btw have lead the military since the inception of the United States as we know it. Civilian oversight isnt going away anytime soon so the sooner people get comfortable with that again the better. In the current wired world 20 seconds of damning tape is more powerful than any bomb or weapon in the arsenal...

dont expect chuck norris to save the world with a roundhouse kick....

 

[StageLeft]

Did they attack yet? 🙂

 

[EagleKeeper]

EagleKeeper

Thanks for the vid of a C130 landing on a carrier. Amazing! Never would have thought it possible.

Welcome. I though that it might be possible; the C130 has a low stall speed and a fast carrier driving into the wind should shave another 40-50 knots.

w/ respect to tail hooks; the current crop of USAF fighters do not have hooks.

A problem with use of a tail hook is that the pilot needs extensive training on the use along with a ground crew that can setup the arresting wires.

While possible; it is not really feasible as an adaptation

 

[AzN]

American public is so silly it's incredible. China has been sending troops to Korea for thousands of years from foreign powers. China does not care if you buy cheap Chinese goods through walmart. They will send troops to Korea when foreign powers come knocking on their borders. That's reality. Your government officials found out in the first Korean War and keeps testing China's policy with NK. China told US to back off or they will do something about it. That's reality not some anandtech loony politics hoping China won't secure their borders.

America keeps playing these war games for proxy wars in other countries. What if China had military drills with NK near SK waters? That would be hilarious.

 

[AzN]

The Korean Conflict was never ended.
The US and South Korea beat the North all the way back to nearly the Chinese border, that is why China stepped in, they feared we were coming on over the river into China. In other words we should have stopped sooner and never gotten so close to thye border. NK didn't beat squat it was the Chinese + NK that ran us back down to the present DMZ.

The UN isn't worth 2 cents in this or any other conflict. The UN should be disbanded, there are far too many crazies in it to accomplish anything.

As for the civilians in NK. It will be sad but if we had fought Hitler or Japan in WWII like we are trying to fight presently, well we would all be speaking German and Japanese. Do you think NK will care about civilians in SK? No they don't even care about their own.

You are so wrong. When US entered the war China stepped in not because US pushed NK all the way to Chinese borders.

 

[pcgeek11]

You are so wrong. When US entered the war China stepped in not because US pushed NK all the way to Chinese borders.

You need a history lesson.

 

[pcgeek11]

No I was never in the military but I do have degrees in History, journalism, and Italian history.

What would be gained from leveling all the cities and villages in Afghanistan? Those people lead lives of misery as it is and only know the western world by the bombs that kill their children and assassinate their leaders.

Those weak bladder pussies btw have lead the military since the inception of the United States as we know it. Civilian oversight isnt going away anytime soon so the sooner people get comfortable with that again the better.

1.) I figured as much. No disrespect intended, but all you know about the Military is what you have read about in History Books. IMO irrelevant.

2.) You don't have to level cities and villages to fight a war. But you cannot expect to fight and win a war with the troops having their hands tied behind their backs and having to prove the insurgents were actually armed and shooting at them before they could engage.

3.) No the weak bladder pussies have only been leading the military in my lifetime since the early 1990's or so.

Do you think that our troops should be court martialed for a prisoner getting a few scrapes and a fat lip?

Yes, I am a retired 20+ veteran.

 

[AzN]

You need a history lesson.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#China_intervenes_.28October_.E2.80.93_December_1950.29

On 4 August 1950, with the PRC invasion of Taiwan aborted, Mao ZedongZhou Enlainational security, they would intervene against the UN Command in Korea.[33]:83 President Truman interpreted the communication as "a bald attempt to blackmail the UN", and dismissed it.[77] The Politburo authorized Chinese intervention in Korea on 2 October 1950, the day after the ROK Army crossed the 38th parallel.[78] reported to the Politburo that he would intervene in Korea when the People's Liberation Army's (PLA) Taiwan invasion force was reorganized into the PLA North East Frontier Force. On 20 August 1950, Premier informed the United Nations that "Korea is China's neighbor ... The Chinese people cannot but be concerned about a solution of the Korean question". Thus, via neutral-country diplomats, China warned that in safeguarding Chinese national security, they would intervene against the UN Command in Korea.

🙄

 

[Binarycow]

Well, looks like we called them bluffing and we were right. world-class aholes like the leaders of the NK regime only understand one thing and that's the promise of brute force smacking down on top of their collective heads.

Hopefully, this will keep them STFU for a while.

 

[bullbert]

North Korea already has a Nike plant. If you can only convince them that the Mothership is coming...

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u304/salmonellison/7c2d8ce5.jpg



hint: Heaven's Gate

 

[pcgeek11]

Well, looks like we called them bluffing and we were right. world-class aholes like the leaders of the NK regime only understand one thing and that's the promise of brute force smacking down on top of their collective heads.

Hopefully, this will keep them STFU for a while.

It won't. The hot air will continue to blow from the paper tiger.

 

[Binarycow]

It won't. The hot air will continue to blow from the paper tiger.

more like a paper starving rabic dog.

 

[pcgeek11]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#China_intervenes_.28October_.E2.80.93_December_1950.29

On 4 August 1950, with the PRC invasion of Taiwan aborted, Mao ZedongZhou Enlainational security, they would intervene against the UN Command in Korea.[33]:83 President Truman interpreted the communication as "a bald attempt to blackmail the UN", and dismissed it.[77] The Politburo authorized Chinese intervention in Korea on 2 October 1950, the day after the ROK Army crossed the 38th parallel.[78] reported to the Politburo that he would intervene in Korea when the People's Liberation Army's (PLA) Taiwan invasion force was reorganized into the PLA North East Frontier Force. On 20 August 1950, Premier informed the United Nations that "Korea is China's neighbor ... The Chinese people cannot but be concerned about a solution of the Korean question". Thus, via neutral-country diplomats, China warned that in safeguarding Chinese national security, they would intervene against the UN Command in Korea.

🙄

Same reference, but you left out the preceeding section that proves my point: Here I'll fix it for you:

" On September 27, MacArthur received the top secret National Security Council Memorandum 81/1 from Truman reminding him that operations north of the 38th parallel were authorized only if "at the time of such operation there was no entry into North Korea by major Soviet or Chinese Communist forces, no announcements of intended entry, nor a threat to counter our operations militarily…" On September 30, Defense Secretary George Marshall sent an eyes-only message to MacArthur: "We want you to feel unhampered tactically and strategically to proceed north of the 38th parallel."

On 1 October 1950, the UN Command repelled the KPA northwards, past the 38th parallel; the ROK Army crossed after them, into North Korea.Six days later, on 7 October, with UN authorization, the UN Command forces followed the ROK forces northwards. The X Corps landed at Wonsan (in southeastern North Korea) and Iwon (in northeastern North Korea), already captured by ROK forces.The Eighth United States Army and the ROK Army drove up western Korea and captured Pyongyang city, the North Korean capital, on 19 October 1950. At month’s end, UN forces held 135,000 KPA prisoners of war.

Taking advantage of the UN Command's strategic momentum against the communists, General MacArthur believed it necessary to extend the Korean War into China to destroy depots supplying the North Korean war effort. President Truman disagreed, and ordered caution at the Sino-Korean border. "

UN Forces were all the way up to Unsan before the Chinese forces did anything. We should have stopped after taking the Capital Pyongyang City, which took six entire days.