North Korea threatening physical response this weekend

[mrjminer]

Most likely. I just can't see China ever getting involved in something like this. They have pretty strong economic ties with the US that they aren't going to want to sever any time soon.

This

snip

Just to round-out the starcraft jokes

:biggrin:

 

[Acanthus]

yep.

We brought the new F-22 jets to this exercise that have the new stealth systems. There are 4 on the carrier now with a total 12 planned by the end of the exercises.



What I don't get is the reason the US is giving for the exercise. A show of strength ? Does someone actually think that because we send some ships out and some jets that NK will suddenly go , "they have big ships we better behave" ?

I think it is more "they have a carrier battlegroup in strike range we had better behave."

 

[lothar]

No Scouts, Corsairs, or Arbiters in Carrier battle group. FAIL.
I'm not sure if Observers are missing as well, but I don't see any.

 

[lothar]

yep.

We brought the new F-22 jets to this exercise that have the new stealth systems. There are 4 on the carrier now with a total 12 planned by the end of the exercises.

What I don't get is the reason the US is giving for the exercise. A show of strength ? Does someone actually think that because we send some ships out and some jets that NK will suddenly go , "they have big ships we better behave" ?

I wasn't aware that an F-22 can take off from a carrier.

 

[Modelworks]

I wasn't aware that an F-22 can take off from a carrier.

Sure can, no problem at all.
The problem with the F22 is really storage since the wings do not fold and landing of course.

Edit:
I don't think they plan to use them on the carrier , they are sending the carrier to the waters near Japan which contains the air base at Okinawa that is to be the location for the all the F-22 in that area. I guess they are just using the carrier for transport vs flying and refueling.

 

[soccerballtux]

Just to round-out the starcraft jokes

thats two in one thread lol. Supply depots, now this, what's next????

 

[Schadenfroh]

thats two in one thread lol. Supply depots, now this, what's next????

The North will strike on July 27, 2010 and will initially prevail, as the Americans and South Koreans will be rather distracted and too busy with something else to bother with a zerg rush of reds.

 

[Dominato3r]

Dude, Canada would destroy NK.


😛

 

[Darwin333]

yep.

We brought the new F-22 jets to this exercise that have the new stealth systems. There are 4 on the carrier now with a total 12 planned by the end of the exercises.



What I don't get is the reason the US is giving for the exercise. A show of strength ? Does someone actually think that because we send some ships out and some jets that NK will suddenly go , "they have big ships we better behave" ?

I didn't think a F22 could land, or take off from, an aircraft carrier.

 

[Darwin333]

Sure can, no problem at all.
The problem with the F22 is really storage since the wings do not fold and landing of course.

Edit:
I don't think they plan to use them on the carrier , they are sending the carrier to the waters near Japan which contains the air base at Okinawa that is to be the location for the all the F-22 in that area. I guess they are just using the carrier for transport vs flying and refueling.

How? It doesn't have the capability to be hooked up to the launcher, at least as far as I know.

 

[Brainonska511]

I wasn't aware that an F-22 can take off from a carrier.

Sure can, no problem at all.
The problem with the F22 is really storage since the wings do not fold and landing of course.

Edit:
I don't think they plan to use them on the carrier , they are sending the carrier to the waters near Japan which contains the air base at Okinawa that is to be the location for the all the F-22 in that area. I guess they are just using the carrier for transport vs flying and refueling.

The F-22 is not carrier based and I doubt it could take off from one. Lockheed Martin proposed a carrier version, but the Navy wasn't biting. The USAF F-22 doesn't have the necessary components for carrier operation - special stuff for the catapult, beefier air frame and arrestor hook for landing. The F-22 is also an air superiority fighter - I doubt it would really be needed to fight NK.

They could be using the carrier to transport them, but I don't see why they'd do that. You'd have to dock somewhere and remove them from the ship to bring them back to active use (since they are not carrier capable). Why not just fly them to a more local airbase if you need them?

 

[LunarRay]

So... we want another war? What would that cost us... A trillion or two? How many lives lost?
We seem able to quickly choose war with a nation we ought to be able to tame but if it were a bit larger one we choose diplomacy... why not here too.
They might provoke but we don't have to respond with war actions... Why not seek the good offices of the UN... let the world join in on the situation.

 

[Brainonska511]

So... we want another war? What would that cost us... A trillion or two? How many lives lost?
We seem able to quickly choose war with a nation we ought to be able to tame but if it were a bit larger one we choose diplomacy... why not here too.
They might provoke but we don't have to respond with war actions... Why not seek the good offices of the UN... let the world join in on the situation.

LOL. The UN. LOL.

The world already knows the situation and we've tried the diplomacy route for many, many years.

If NK attacks us, appeasement will not work. We don't need to send in massive amounts of ground forces - SK can do that on its own. We can provide air and sea power though in a show of support with a small amount of ground troops if necessary. (Plus, we have tons of people already stationed in Korea in case such an event were to happen.)

 

[LunarRay]

LOL. The UN. LOL.

The world already knows the situation and we've tried the diplomacy route for many, many years.

If NK attacks us, appeasement will not work. We don't need to send in massive amounts of ground forces - SK can do that on its own. We can provide air and sea power though in a show of support with a small amount of ground troops if necessary. (Plus, we have tons of people already stationed in Korea in case such an event were to happen.)

Well... I'd like to see China help out either by siding with or against us cuz in either case there wouldn't be a war...
NK are people too as far as I'm concerned. Breathing simple folks like the folks in Iraq and Afghanistan and probably Iran too... They'd be forced to defend cuz their leaders are idiots.. don't we ever consider the people?

Just cuz we have all this fire power and can carry the big stick all over the place is no reason to use it... IF they attack SK or Tahiti then a measured response... or more sanctions... that is my view.

 

[Brainonska511]

Well... I'd like to see China help out either by siding with or against us cuz in either case there wouldn't be a war...
NK are people too as far as I'm concerned. Breathing simple folks like the folks in Iraq and Afghanistan and probably Iran too... They'd be forced to defend cuz their leaders are idiots.. don't we ever consider the people?

Just cuz we have all this fire power and can carry the big stick all over the place is no reason to use it... IF they attack SK or Tahiti then a measured response... or more sanctions... that is my view.

Of course we consider people, but sometimes, you got to let the chips fall. If they're so concerned about dying, maybe they should collectively push to not have a madman in charge - their country, their responsibility. China's probably trying to keep the situation cool on their end, but if push comes to shove, they'll most likely make NK stand alone.

More sanctions? I bet we've sanctioned about as far as we're going to get. As long as madmen are in charge, we won't be able to reason our way out of this. What would you have us do if they attacked one of our ships? I'm not advocating throwing the first punch - technically, NK already did that by sinking the SK vessel.

 

[LunarRay]

Of course we consider people, but sometimes, you got to let the chips fall. If they're so concerned about dying, maybe they should collectively push to not have a madman in charge - their country, their responsibility. China's probably trying to keep the situation cool on their end, but if push comes to shove, they'll most likely make NK stand alone.

More sanctions? I bet we've sanctioned about as far as we're going to get. As long as madmen are in charge, we won't be able to reason our way out of this. What would you have us do if they attacked one of our ships? I'm not advocating throwing the first punch - technically, NK already did that by sinking the SK vessel.

I kind of remember a USN Ship named Pueblo... Cdr. Bucher I think his name was was the CO. This was in '68 if you've forgot or what ever. NK captured the ship and crew. We were not all that far removed from the war with them and engaged in Vietnam. We worked our way out of that mess over time.
Sinking of a ship is tragic, no bout a doubt that. But going to war... committing to a war and creating death is not the answer to NK today.
IF they do have Nuclear Weapons and IF SK is but a bit away... I think they are nutty enough to unleash them if we corner them... That is lots of lives lost. Anything is better than that, imo...

 

[William Gaatjes]

I wonder if the US is ready for yet another war.
The money is at the right places though...(How did that get there ?)

But the big question i have is : What are the natural resources in and around North Korea ? Because if it is enough and looking at the expansion rate of China... China just might become a little bigger. Mentality may be more similar then expected and as such a fusion of the 2 countries or North Korea under Chinese control and a gradual change would not be unlikely. If such is the case, expect South Korea to be on the desired list as well sooner or later when another conflict arises and political gestures must be made.

If such is the case, a political move in favour of China will create a short war where China will "take over" . That is, the only change is the leader ship in North Korea. All the rest will stay more or less the same. The US will start and China will finish. It kind of fit's the strategical decisions of the US since WW2.

This is all guessing based on some old news and geographic resources but still.

 

[Kaieye]

PS: I would drop little bundles of food by the millions with "From the USA with love for our friends who live in North Korea under a brutal cruel and senseless dictatorship and can't even feed its own people while we free folk in the West have so much wealth to burn and food to eat we are dropping it on you." written on them.

I would drop counterfeit $$ on them instead...

 

[flexy]

As always, there is ONE insane, fascist dictator.
As so often, he is OLD, probably has alzheimer already.

The rest is an oppressed, manipulated and brainwashed society which has no choice OTHER than to follow and comply what the insane old guy tells them.

The sad thing is, that especially when it comes to a nuclear war ....the majority of victims will be innocent people.

The last time i checked we didnt have weapons THAT intelligent so they could only seek out the insane in power.

 

[mizzou]

pretty awesome we are calling their bluff.

has anyone done that before straight up to the face of N.Korea *(I.E., they draw a line and say don't cross it or else seoul will be a orb of fire, and we cross it and say whats up?)

if so what was the result?

 

[Kirby]

So... we want another war? What would that cost us... A trillion or two? How many lives lost?
We seem able to quickly choose war with a nation we ought to be able to tame but if it were a bit larger one we choose diplomacy... why not here too.
They might provoke but we don't have to respond with war actions... Why not seek the good offices of the UN... let the world join in on the situation.

I don't think anyone wants a war, especially the S. Koreans. There's a been a movement towards reunification for many years. Hell, they already have a train station setup if/when they reunify.

And the UN is very actively involved, and has been since UN forces fought N. Korea in 1950. 😉

UN forces are at Panmunjeom right now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Security_Area

 

[Taejin]

I don't think anyone wants a war, especially the S. Koreans. There's a been a movement towards reunification for many years. Hell, they already have a train station setup if/when they reunify.

And the UN is very actively involved, and has been since UN forces fought N. Korea in 1950. 😉

UN forces are at Panmunjeom right now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Security_Area

the movement towards reunification is actually getting weaker, as familial ties between the two koreas grow more distant.

nevermind the total mindfuck NK is right now..

 

[Modelworks]

How? It doesn't have the capability to be hooked up to the launcher, at least as far as I know.

It doesn't need it. Carrier runway is almost 1000 ft. The F22 only needs 800ft.
The engines on the F-22 are much more powerful than previous planes. It can maneuver at 60,000 ft while other planes can go that high, they can't maneuver once they get there.

I doubt they intend to use them on the deck.

 

[Kirby]

the movement towards reunification is actually getting weaker, as familial ties between the two koreas grow more distant.

nevermind the total mindfuck NK is right now..

politically it's stagnated more recently, but there is staunch difference in opinion about NK between the US and ROK. they still view themselves as the same people, and that i don't think that will ever change, so reunification will take precedence over militarism, at least from the ROK's side.

 

[Modelworks]

The F-22 is not carrier based and I doubt it could take off from one. Lockheed Martin proposed a carrier version, but the Navy wasn't biting. The USAF F-22 doesn't have the necessary components for carrier operation - special stuff for the catapult, beefier air frame and arrestor hook for landing. The F-22 is also an air superiority fighter - I doubt it would really be needed to fight NK.

The F22 could take off from a carrier. It needs 800ft and the runway on a carrier is just shy of 1000ft. Landing it could not do because it lacks the landing gear support.

I was curious so I asked some friends who are still active duty, they had 4 on deck Saturday on the way to Okinawa, Japan. , it has been years since I was in the Navy, I went in as an aviation electronics guy in the early 90's. and we transported many planes for the air force on carriers .

I was also reminded by friends that the air force cannot use a navy carrier for any of their planes to take off because it is against the rules. They will help each other but the Navy can't provide functions that would normally be performed by the Air Force. It doesn't matter if it is a model toy plane, if it has the air force logo and the air force usually supervises its setting down, the Navy can't perform that function .They have the whole we are part of the same military, but what is our branch belongs to our branch thing going on. 😀
Navy may take marine soldiers to a fight, but the second the Navy starts trying to drive a tank off a transport, the Marines will throw a fit.

They could be using the carrier to transport them, but I don't see why they'd do that. You'd have to dock somewhere and remove them from the ship to bring them back to active use (since they are not carrier capable). Why not just fly them to a more local airbase if you need them?

It is done quite a lot to transport planes. They are just left on deck since they cannot be stored in the hanger on ship without some serious mechanical reworking. The reason they transport planes vs flying them there is it is easier than doing multiple in air refueling per plane just to get it to a destination.

I thought it was interesting that Japan sent 4 observers . Japan was really against the F-22 being based there but has given into the idea over the past couple years.