NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

[Zorba]

I believe everyone would be better off with complete transparency and full disclosure. There has been so much censorship in the form of banning, de-platforming, demonetizing, etc. that it just makes people more skeptical. Freedom of speech has served us well. We don't need to go back to the times of Galileo.

If you just talk about adverse effects, you are "highlighting". If the data may not be "covered up" but it certainly is made much less likely to be viewed.

One aspect that seems to be continually overlooked is that for most age groups, severe outcomes are rare events. The boomers that are on the far end of the exponential curve are looking at risk/rewards that are orders of magnitude different from younger people. Young people see two sets of rare events.

The media has covered side effects extensively. Maybe if you actually looked at real media, instead of listening to Fox news lie about it, you would know that.

 

[pmv]

Freedom of speech has served us well.

By 'freedom of speech' you mean "Rupert Murdoch telling everyone what to think".

 

[gill77]

By 'freedom of speech' you mean "Rupert Murdoch telling everyone what to think".

I do?

 

[Brainonska511]

I believe everyone would be better off with complete transparency and full disclosure.

Transparency does exist. The data is public, ongoing reports are also public.

Transparency doesn't mean presenting some false balance between extremely rare events and the very measurable extreme benefit of being vaccinated against covid.

 

[pmv]

I do?

Well that's what "free speech" has traditionally meant. It's a nonsense term anyway, really. No such thing has ever existed. In practice it usually just means "We, the people with money and power, get to speak as much as we wish, and nobody else gets to have a say".

 

[gill77]

Well that's what "free speech" has traditionally meant. It's a nonsense term anyway, really. No such thing has ever existed. In practice it usually just means "We, the people with money and power, get to speak as much as we wish, and nobody else gets to have a say".

I am trying to think of a nice way to say this, but who taught you this stuff?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Man

View attachment 49354

If you know this person that is terrible.
Otherwise I am suspicious of this claim from someone who has such a young looking avatar picture.
I know young people can have strokes but lets be real 99.9% of them happen to people who are older than their 20s.
Maybe her Cousins wife is much older (2x) (plus 7)
The internet is a fabulous place to tell lies.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Looks like we're working from home until at least Oct 31 now. Also my workplace (and lot of other functions it seems like hospitals, restaurants etc) have announced making the vax mandatory. I got mine, but I still don't like this idea honestly. I don't really want yet another piece of ID I need to carry everywhere I go as it seems so many other places it will be mandatory too. I kind of saw this coming though. I hope they eventually incorporate this into the driver's license or health card or something. This is also going to be a huge hassle for anyone that cannot be vaccinated or that may have medical reasons to not want to. Funny how we went from 2 weeks to flatten the curve to "papers please".

 

[Zorba]

Looks like we're working from home until at least Oct 31 now. Also my workplace (and lot of other functions it seems like hospitals, restaurants etc) have announced making the vax mandatory. I got mine, but I still don't like this idea honestly. I don't really want yet another piece of ID I need to carry everywhere I go as it seems so many other places it will be mandatory too. I kind of saw this coming though. I hope they eventually incorporate this into the driver's license or health card or something. This is also going to be a huge hassle for anyone that cannot be vaccinated or that may have medical reasons to not want to. Funny how we went from 2 weeks to flatten the curve to "papers please".

Blame the asshole adult children. If everyone would've gotten their shots, there would be no need for a passport.

 

[gill77]

I guess I probably am not the only one who is a bit concerned about the decline in efficacy of our current vaccinations. Maybe we should not be completely surprised base on how we see evolution playing out:



It seems extremely likely that eventually the vaccines will be rendered essentially ineffective. This preprint from three days ago indicates that this is imminent. Who knows what the future may hold, but this may be worthy of our attention.

Given the fact that a Delta variant with three similar RBD mutations has already emerged according to the GISAID database, it is necessary to develop vaccines that protect against such complete breakthrough variants.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.22.457114v1.full.pdf

 

[pmv]

If you know this person that is terrible.
Otherwise I am suspicious of this claim from someone who has such a young looking avatar picture.
I know young people can have strokes but lets be real 99.9% of them happen to people who are older than their 20s.
Maybe her Cousins wife is much older (2x) (plus 7)
The internet is a fabulous place to tell lies.

Perfectly possible for a "cousin's wife" to be vastly older - because a cousin can be much older. I don't think you can conclude anything from the tweeter's profile pic.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Perfectly possible for a "cousin's wife" to be vastly older - because a cousin can be much older. I don't think you can conclude anything from the tweeter's profile pic.

I did some light searching. Good chance I am correct.

 

[Zorba]

I guess I probably am not the only one who is a bit concerned about the decline in efficacy of our current vaccinations. Maybe we should not be completely surprised base on how we see evolution playing out:

View attachment 49369

It seems extremely likely that eventually the vaccines will be rendered essentially ineffective. This preprint from three days ago indicates that this is imminent. Who knows what the future may hold, but this may be worthy of our attention.

Given the fact that a Delta variant with three similar RBD mutations has already emerged according to the GISAID database, it is necessary to develop vaccines that protect against such complete breakthrough variants.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.22.457114v1.full.pdf

That's a cool chart. All RNA viruses would look similar. But it shows that there can be many neutral mutations and the more a variant spreads the more mutations it picks up.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine
The natural immune protection that develops after a SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably more of a shield against the Delta variant of the pandemic coronavirus than two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a large Israeli study

people who recover from a SARS-CoV-2 infection continue to develop increasing numbers and types of coronavirus-targeting antibodies for up to 1 year. By contrast, he says, twice-vaccinated people stop seeing increases “in the potency or breadth of the overall memory antibody compartment” a few months after their second dose.

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

Why are we requiring vaccinations for those who've had it?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine
The natural immune protection that develops after a SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably more of a shield against the Delta variant of the pandemic coronavirus than two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a large Israeli study

people who recover from a SARS-CoV-2 infection continue to develop increasing numbers and types of coronavirus-targeting antibodies for up to 1 year. By contrast, he says, twice-vaccinated people stop seeing increases “in the potency or breadth of the overall memory antibody compartment” a few months after their second dose.

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

Why are we requiring vaccinations for those who've had it?

Not sure what you mean by “requiring” I assume that is a work requirement.
It is easier for HR and Management to say “you need to be vaccinated to work here”
Company & Boss have pretty established protection from liability saying all must be vaccinated vs trusting or getting health reports that say “has recovered from COVID” those can contain info that exposes them to liability.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Not sure what you mean by “requiring”

California lawmakers are considering enacting a sweeping COVID-19 vaccination mandate that would require residents to show proof of vaccination to enter many businesses statewide
The legislation, which would require restaurants, bars, gyms, movie theaters, hotels, sports stadiums and more to screen patrons for proof of vaccination

California may wait until after Newsom recall to enact vaccine mandate

The polling is mixed on whether California residents would support such a mandate.

www.sfgate.com

It is becoming increasingly difficult to operate in society without your vax card.

 

[Captante]

Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine
The natural immune protection that develops after a SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably more of a shield against the Delta variant of the pandemic coronavirus than two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a large Israeli study

people who recover from a SARS-CoV-2 infection continue to develop increasing numbers and types of coronavirus-targeting antibodies for up to 1 year. By contrast, he says, twice-vaccinated people stop seeing increases “in the potency or breadth of the overall memory antibody compartment” a few months after their second dose.

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

Why are we requiring vaccinations for those who've had it?

Any credible studies showing what happens when you get the vax on top of having Covid? (as my younger daughter did)

My laymans-guess is that it will provide greater immunity then just getting Covid -or- the vaccine alone.

I was looking at NY States "Excelsior" vaccine-app the other day... looks pretty good too.

I really wish the powers that be would stop carefully tip-toeing around semi-illiterate anti-vaxxers who are fine making healthcare decisions for everyone based on fairy-tales and Facebook, and meanwhile trampling all over the rights of the MAJORITY that has behaved responsibly!

 

[Dr. Detroit]

Any studies showing what happens when you get the vax on top of having Covid? (as my younger daughter did)

My laymans-guess is that it will provide greater immunity then just getting Covid -or- the vaccine alone.

It was the 3rd paragraph in the article I linked:

The researchers also found that people who had SARS-CoV-2 previously and then received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine were more highly protected against reinfection than those who once had the virus and were still unvaccinated.

The new work could inform discussion of whether previously infected people need to receive both doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine or the similar mRNA vaccine from Moderna. Vaccine mandates don’t necessarily exempt those who had a SARS-CoV-2 infection already and the current U.S. recommendation is that they be fully vaccinated, which means two mRNA doses or one of the J&J adenovirus-based vaccine.

Yet one mRNA dose might be enough, some scientists argue. And other countries including Germany, France, Italy, and Israel administer just one vaccine dose to previously infected people.

Don't get me started on the lack of research/science in the US. Cant go against the narrative.

 

[ElFenix]

fuck all you pieces of shit who refuse to get the vax because of "muh rights!"

https://twitter.com/x/status/1431302558681911298

 

[Fanatical Meat]

California lawmakers are considering enacting a sweeping COVID-19 vaccination mandate that would require residents to show proof of vaccination to enter many businesses statewide
The legislation, which would require restaurants, bars, gyms, movie theaters, hotels, sports stadiums and more to screen patrons for proof of vaccination

California may wait until after Newsom recall to enact vaccine mandate

The polling is mixed on whether California residents would support such a mandate.

www.sfgate.com

It is becoming increasingly difficult to operate in society without your vax card.

What I said still applies it is easier and more accurate to simply count how many vaccinated vs trying to figure out who had what sickness when and if it can be determined.
No harm in being vaccinated even if you have recovered from COVID.

 

[manly]

Having SARS-CoV-2 once confers much greater immunity than a vaccine
The natural immune protection that develops after a SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably more of a shield against the Delta variant of the pandemic coronavirus than two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a large Israeli study

people who recover from a SARS-CoV-2 infection continue to develop increasing numbers and types of coronavirus-targeting antibodies for up to 1 year. By contrast, he says, twice-vaccinated people stop seeing increases “in the potency or breadth of the overall memory antibody compartment” a few months after their second dose.

Science | AAAS

www.sciencemag.org

Why are we requiring vaccinations for those who've had it?

Good thing you actually read this article as far as paragraph #3. It specifically states the value of a vaccine dose after a prior infection.

It's a preprint study. Let's see how it holds up under experts review.

 

[ultimatebob]

Blame the asshole adult children. If everyone would've gotten their shots, there would be no need for a passport.

In case you didn't notice, people who GOT the shot are still getting the virus. Perhaps the media should start being honest for a change and admit that the vaccine wasn't as effective as hoped?

Also, I believe that the Delta variant came from India, where people are still struggling to get vaccinated due to supply issues. You can't really blame Delta on the people who didn't get vaccinated here.

 

[Torn Mind]

I did some light searching. Good chance I am correct.

I guess I probably am not the only one who is a bit concerned about the decline in efficacy of our current vaccinations. Maybe we should not be completely surprised base on how we see evolution playing out:

View attachment 49369

It seems extremely likely that eventually the vaccines will be rendered essentially ineffective. This preprint from three days ago indicates that this is imminent. Who knows what the future may hold, but this may be worthy of our attention.

Given the fact that a Delta variant with three similar RBD mutations has already emerged according to the GISAID database, it is necessary to develop vaccines that protect against such complete breakthrough variants.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.22.457114v1.full.pdf

I think it would be pretty fair to consider whether COVID regains power over the much longer term enough to change life planning. Can the younger folks now make it to 50 or 60 after multiple infections? Or is "retirement" a harder goal to reach than before. Will people buy more life insurance, essentially betting against their own life?
I wouldn't be surprised either way . It's always the one mutation that's a hit that changes the course of a species, not the ones that do nothing. Original COVID was in an environment where transmissibility was not hindered. People love being around other people, generally speaking. Folks caught on, obviously, and took physical measure to reduce transmission. While this was happening, the virus obviously mutate all over the place but the one that landed in the UK's environ was the first major "winner" of a beneficial error.

Anything done to make it harder for an organism is an evolutionary pressure, and it might be possible that a vaccine piercer manages to arise.

A third round of booster immunization with the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine is currently under
consideration. Our data suggest that repeated immunization with the wild-type spike may not be
effective in controlling the newly emerging Delta variants. We demonstrated that immunization by
Delta spike induces antibodies that neutralize not only the Delta variant but also wild-type and the
Delta 4+ variant without enhancing the infectivity. Although mRNA vaccination may yield
different results from our animal model, development of mRNA vaccine expressing the Delta spike
might be effective for controlling the emerging Delta variant. However, epitopes of the enhancing
antibodies, not neutralizing antibodies, are well conserved in most SARS-CoV-2 variants,
including the Delta variant. Therefore, additional immunization of the spike protein derived from
SARS-CoV-2 variants may boost enhancing antibodies more than the neutralizing antibodies in
individuals who were previously infected with wild-type SARS-CoV-2 or immunized with
vaccines composed of wild-type spike protein. Immunization using the RBD alone, which will not
induce anti-NTD enhancing antibodies, could be a strategy for a vaccination. However, anti-NTD
neutralizing antibodies that protect against SARS-CoV-2 infection similar to anti-RBD-
neutralizing antibodies are not induced by immunization by RBD alone (Chi et al., 2020; Li et al.,
2021 ; Liu et al., 2020; Suryadevara et al., 2021; Voss et al., 2021). Whole spike protein containing
RBD mutations observed in major variants but lacking the enhancing antibody epitopes may need
to be considered as a booster vaccine.

Seems like the vaccine companies might be laughing all the way to the bank. The original mRNA vaccines might have to be eventually abandoned for a Delta-customized version if more studies reach the same conclusion as above.

 

[Zorba]

In case you didn't notice, people who GOT the shot are still getting the virus. Perhaps the media should start being honest for a change and admit that the vaccine wasn't as effective as hoped?

The vaccine was never tested to prevent infection. It is still highly effective at reducing hospitalization and death, which is what it was tested for.

Also response has literally nothing to do with what I said.

 

[Zorba]

Good thing you actually read this article as far as paragraph #3. It specifically states the value of a vaccine dose after a prior infection.

It's a preprint study. Let's see how it holds up under experts review.

It's a preprint with a very specific sample. So it needs to hold up to review and be repeatable.