NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

[Captante]

Pretty much why I don’t want a digital vaccine passport right there.
It is about what other data it collects and who/how/how long it is stored with.
I could care less about someone knowing which vaccine I had.

Bad news bro ... its too late THEY already know everything!

Focus on not pissing THEM off and you should be fine!

 

[dullard]

How about the folks who already have experienced health effects or have died from the vaccines?

Is it good that they have financial consequences as well?

A small handful of those who are extremely frail, usually in nursing homes and usually on end-of-life care, with a fragility index of 8 or more out of 9 have died from the vaccine. Those people should seriously consider whether it is better to get the vaccine or not. That is the only group with any significant vaccine deaths.

Clinical Frailty Scale

www.dal.ca

 

[Muse]

Dr. Mike Hansen makes the case that recovered Covid-19 persons will be far better protected against the Delta variants if they get vaccinated (plus other info):

 

[balloonshark]

Not sure if this has been posted yet or not. Still sounds like you're still better off being vaccinated.

NEW YORK — A new report from California finds that COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths continue to be far more common in unvaccinated people than those who got the shots.

But it also indicates fully vaccinated people accounted for a higher proportion of hospitalizations and deaths than previous reports.

Health officials looked at about 43,000 reported coronavirus infections in Los Angeles County residents, ages 16 and older, that were reported in May, June and July. They found that about 25% were fully vaccinated people.

Infections tended to be more common and more severe in unvaccinated people, the report concluded. People who were unvaccinated were nearly five times more likely to be infected and 29 times more likely to be hospitalized.

But the report also found about 12% of the infected people who were hospitalized and about 12% who died were fully vaccinated.

The L.A. County report — which the CDC released on Tuesday — found fully vaccinated people who died after infection tended to be older and more frail than the unvaccinated people who died. The median age of the vaccinated people who died was 78, compared with 63 for the unvaccinated people. Also, one quarter of the 24 fully vaccinated people who died had weakened immune systems in the wake of cancer treatments, HIV or organ transplantations.

Last month, federal officials said only about 3% of hospitalized patients and fewer than 1% of deaths were vaccinated. The CDC officials noted the proportion of Americans who are fully vaccinated has been rising, and therefore they expected to see a rise in infections among vaccinated people.

The Latest: S Korea nearly matches its high for new cases

South Korea has reported 2,155 new coronavirus cases, nearly matching a record daily increase set earlier this month amid an alarming spread of infections

abcnews.go.com

 

[vi edit]

Yeah, the ability of vaccines to reduce significant health risks really seems to drop in the very elderly. And particularly very elderly with underlying issues. It's not a silver bullet. But it's certainly *much* better than the alternative. It also means that you still run a risk of killing granny at Thanksgiving even if she's vaccinated.

 

[Zorba]

Yeah, the ability of vaccines to reduce significant health risks really seems to drop in the very elderly. And particularly very elderly with underlying issues. It's not a silver bullet. But it's certainly *much* better than the alternative. It also means that you still run a risk of killing granny at Thanksgiving even if she's vaccinated.

I think this is true of all vaccines.

I know people over 65 get a much bigger dose of the flu vaccine. Last year I made my mom call around and find a place that had that in stock.

 

[Torn Mind]

Not sure if this has been posted yet or not. Still sounds like you're still better off being vaccinated.

The Latest: S Korea nearly matches its high for new cases

South Korea has reported 2,155 new coronavirus cases, nearly matching a record daily increase set earlier this month amid an alarming spread of infections

abcnews.go.com

Trotting out the median but not the other statistical descriptors like range, mean, std. deviation makes the mention of the "median" rather limited in the conclusions that can be drawn.

It also means that old people are still in sufficient danger even with vaccination that they must tred carefully and the younger folks they interact with should also live carefully even with vaccination.

 

[pmv]

I'm very confused about the question of immunity, whether from vaccine or infections.

On the one hand, this doesn't sound good (from Professor Spector and his wall of covid)

COVID-19: Protection from coronavirus vaccines wanes within six months, study suggests

Protection could fall to below 50% for the elderly and healthcare workers by winter, analysis from the Zoe COVID study found.

news.sky.com

Professor Tim Spector, lead scientist on the Zoe COVID Study app, said: "In my opinion, a reasonable worst-case scenario could see protection below 50% for the elderly and healthcare workers by winter.

"If high levels of infection in the UK, driven by loosened social restrictions and a highly transmissible variant, this scenario could mean increased hospitalisations and deaths".

But then I also see stories like this - so is it the case that waning immunity is not a major problem?

The Coronavirus Is Here Forever. This Is How We Live With It.

We can’t avoid the virus for the rest of our lives, but we can minimize its impact.

www.theatlantic.com

And the other thing I wonder about is - if antibody counts are not the whole story when it comes to the immune system's defences against viruses, does that not also mean that allergies and auto-immune disorders are also likely to be equally complicated? i.e. that antibody responses are not going to be the whole story there, either?

 

[jpiniero]

I had seen studies suggesting that the antibodies were lasting awhile. It's just that Delta is different enough that the vaccines aren't as effective.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Delta is raising health insurance premiums by $200 a month for unvaccinated employees.

Delta Air Lines is raising health insurance premiums for unvaccinated employees by $200 a month to cover higher Covid costs

Delta is the latest company to issue new rules for employee vaccinations, but stopped short of an outright mandate.

www.cnbc.com

 

[K1052]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1430527266656825351

 

[local]

My latest communication from the Pfizer trial states that they are starting to see reduced protection from mild and moderate disease. It also says they are working under the thought that protection from severe disease, hospitalization and death could start to wane for the high risk or those that received vaccinations first in the next few months. This is all due to falling levels of active antibodies.

I had seen studies suggesting that the antibodies were lasting awhile. It's just that Delta is different enough that the vaccines aren't as effective.

It appears the problem with Delta is that it replicates faster than your immune system can ramp up. So as the active antibodies from vaccination or infection go away you lose more of that front line defense against the first Delta invasion of your system giving the virus more time to build up before your immune system can knock it back down. The actual ability of the immune system to fight the virus is pretty close to the same as Alpha one on one but Delta is a Zerg rush that can overwhelm and get through those initial defenses. That is why they are pushing for boosters, even the original formula of vaccine will give us back that full front line active antibody defense that should knock back a lot of these breakthrough infections.

If it is true that the sheer speed of Delta replication is what allows it to create breakthrough infections then a Delta specific formulation may not do as much as we hope as the body can only react so fast to create new antibodies.

 

[gill77]

VACCINE INFORMATION FACT SHEET FOR RECIPIENTS AND CAREGIVERS
ABOUT COMIRNATY (COVID-19 VACCINE, mRNA) AND PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE TO PREVENT CORONAVIRUS
DISEASE 2019 (COVID-19)

WHAT IF I DECIDE NOT TO GET COMIRNATY (COVID-19 VACCINE, mRNA) OR
THE PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?
Under the EUA, it is your choice to receive or not receive the vaccine. Should you
decide not to receive it, it will not change your standard medical care

https://www.fda.gov/media/144414/download

 

[pmv]

Delta is raising health insurance premiums by $200 a month for unvaccinated employees.

Delta Air Lines is raising health insurance premiums for unvaccinated employees by $200 a month to cover higher Covid costs

Delta is the latest company to issue new rules for employee vaccinations, but stopped short of an outright mandate.

www.cnbc.com

Delta's concerned about Delta?

 

[ultimatebob]

This is a stupid line of questioning.

I think that this subject needs to be discussed more. There is some risk of complications from getting the COVID vaccine like blood clots, but the mainstream media seems to be afraid to talk about it.

Personally, I like to make informed decisions about my health. I decided to get the shot a long time ago, but I want to see some long term studies about booster shot effectiveness before I sign up for the semi-annual booster shots that everyone seems eager to get around here.

 

[Brainonska511]

There is some risk of complications from getting the COVID vaccine like blood clots, but the mainstream media seems to be afraid to talk about it.

It would be irresponsible to be running stories highlighting these extremely rare adverse events, in light of KNOWN adverse effects from actually coming down with covid (nevermind your chances of getting covid are probably far higher than an extremely rare vaccine side effect, given the current community prevalence). No one is covering it up - there is the information in the vaccination fact sheets and ongoing data collection.

 

[Torn Mind]

I'm very confused about the question of immunity, whether from vaccine or infections.

On the one hand, this doesn't sound good (from Professor Spector and his wall of covid)

COVID-19: Protection from coronavirus vaccines wanes within six months, study suggests

Protection could fall to below 50% for the elderly and healthcare workers by winter, analysis from the Zoe COVID study found.

news.sky.com

But then I also see stories like this - so is it the case that waning immunity is not a major problem?

The Coronavirus Is Here Forever. This Is How We Live With It.

We can’t avoid the virus for the rest of our lives, but we can minimize its impact.

www.theatlantic.com

And the other thing I wonder about is - if antibody counts are not the whole story when it comes to the immune system's defences against viruses, does that not also mean that allergies and auto-immune disorders are also likely to be equally complicated? i.e. that antibody responses are not going to be the whole story there, either?

Article 1 seems to be focused on the level of observations and results from studies regarding efficacy over time. Article 2 is more of a fluffy piece with disguised opinionating regarding institutions dealing with the virus and a heavily optimistic "framing" of talking points. It also lacks any pragmatic protocols when "endemic" is reached. Thus, Article 1's point of discussion might still be true even in the hypothetical world of Article 2.

I got a natural infection around this February and took an antibody test for the spike protein receptor binding domain(RBD) from Labcorp about two weeks ago. No detectable levels of those antibodies were in my blood. Less than 0.4 U/ml. The cutoff for negative is <0.8 U/ml. So, whatever natural immunity I have now is in the memory white blood cells and not the antibodies. Vaccinated people might have produced more to start with, but it's like that they too experience a drop in antibodies, thus leaving protection to the memory cells over time. That's just dandy for Delta, because there is a time gap between infection and the production of new antibodies.

Article 2 is about the equivalent of saying a car's transmission will last a "lifetime". At the institutional level, COVID would allegedly become nothing of concern to hospitals, the government, businesses, etc. That can be true while the matter discussed in Article 1 also is true. Phrases like "the pandemic will end" says nothing at all because a pandemic can end simply by alleging a circumstance has changed even with the virus still circulating(exactly what the case is for the flu).

Article 2 is exceptionally tone deaf to what still needs to be done at the individual even with it being endemic. It's a rather disgusting piece written by a disgusting state and business-worshipper. Numbers might go down, hospitalizations might go down, but COVID is not the flu genetically and its infection damage is much more concerning even if it strikes down people at a 1% clip. Potential Blood vessel damage, heart damage, nerve reconfiguration, lung damage, and a long period of unrelenting symptoms is still potent enough that an "endemic" world of COVID still requires booster shots like oil changes, still might take out a beloved grandpa and grandma, and requires maintain caution in order to avoid the damaging morbidity of reinfection.

If someone needs surgery and they had contracted the virus recently, the docs need to be on the lookout for clots moreso than with regular healthy patients. They can, but they gotta look. That's "endemic".

The author of article 2 is doing a technique journalists often do, which is presenting "facts" in just the right way to let the reader draw incorrect conclusions due the reader's own inability to reason fully. It attempts to lead "smarter" people into a "reasoned delusions".
It also really sounds like the author never had it. One would never call a disease that can, at bare minimum, make extremely difficult to do physical or mental activity for two weeks or more something just like the flu. The threat of blood system issues, from simple bloody noses to clots(I got bloody noses, indicating an weakening of vessels in my nose) is not something typical of the "flu" or common cold. Being endemic is simply a qualitative state in which the masters can "deal with it". Meaning many people can now avoid the worst and most importantly, NOT COLLECTIVELY GIVE A SHIT ABOUT the remaining few who are unfortunate to still get whacked with some form of the "worst", be it long COVID or death.

A disease that require routine vaccinations on the order of an oil change is not just a flu. It means that the "experts" know that even with memory white blood cells, it's not good enough and that antibodies being present in blood is necessary to really mitigate symptoms.

 

[Zorba]

I think that this subject needs to be discussed more. There is some risk of complications from getting the COVID vaccine like blood clots, but the mainstream media seems to be afraid to talk about it.

Personally, I like to make informed decisions about my health. I decided to get the shot a long time ago, but I want to see some long term studies about booster shot effectiveness before I sign up for the semi-annual booster shots that everyone seems eager to get around here.

What are you talking about? The media has blasted and ambulance chased every hint of a side effect and early on every breakthrough.

 

[Zorba]

The Coronavirus Is Here Forever. This Is How We Live With It.

We can’t avoid the virus for the rest of our lives, but we can minimize its impact.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Kaido]

Man

 

[H T C]

Man

View attachment 49354

This right here is the reason countries around the world decided to enact lockdowns. They realized that, if left unchecked, this could be the reality across their countries: not just in one or two hospitals, in ALL of them.

 

[Torn Mind]

I think that this subject needs to be discussed more. There is some risk of complications from getting the COVID vaccine like blood clots, but the mainstream media seems to be afraid to talk about it.

Personally, I like to make informed decisions about my health. I decided to get the shot a long time ago, but I want to see some long term studies about booster shot effectiveness before I sign up for the semi-annual booster shots that everyone seems eager to get around here.

The nuance of being skeptical of the seller is that they might not back the product if shit hits the fan or docs in their intelletucal hubris not diagnosing correctly because they don't want to add to the number count.

I can safely say that if the vaccines had a Home Depot level return policy, more folks would be on board.

Man

View attachment 49354

Jamaica has only 4.7% of its population fully vaccinated. No surprise they are overwhelmed.

 

[pmv]

Man

View attachment 49354

Yup - I've had about half-a-dozen referrals for medical appointments (consequent to the brain surgery) during the pandmic, and all of them have either been repeatedly postponed, or just disappeared into some kind of administrative black hole. People are having treatment for cancer and other life-threatening conditions postponed. My doctor's surgery is still closed for physical appointments.

Yet football matches and nightclubs have all re-opened. Causing case numbers to rise dramatically (and this is in summer - compare it to last August where daily new case numbers were nearly zero - I suspect when winter returns things will get very bad again, especially as the government's made it a point-of-honor that there will be no more lockdowns)

 

[gill77]

It would be irresponsible to be running stories highlighting these extremely rare adverse events, in light of KNOWN adverse effects from actually coming down with covid (nevermind your chances of getting covid are probably far higher than an extremely rare vaccine side effect, given the current community prevalence). No one is covering it up - there is the information in the vaccination fact sheets and ongoing data collection.

I believe everyone would be better off with complete transparency and full disclosure. There has been so much censorship in the form of banning, de-platforming, demonetizing, etc. that it just makes people more skeptical. Freedom of speech has served us well. We don't need to go back to the times of Galileo.

If you just talk about adverse effects, you are "highlighting". If the data may not be "covered up" but it certainly is made much less likely to be viewed.

One aspect that seems to be continually overlooked is that for most age groups, severe outcomes are rare events. The boomers that are on the far end of the exponential curve are looking at risk/rewards that are orders of magnitude different from younger people. Young people see two sets of rare events.

 

[zinfamous]

I think that this subject needs to be discussed more. There is some risk of complications from getting the COVID vaccine like blood clots, but the mainstream media seems to be afraid to talk about it.

Personally, I like to make informed decisions about my health. I decided to get the shot a long time ago, but I want to see some long term studies about booster shot effectiveness before I sign up for the semi-annual booster shots that everyone seems eager to get around here.

This is no different than any vaccine, ever. I'm not sure why this is a special case deserving of more attention than what it has already been given, considering the flu vaccine has been pushed pretty hard annually, for generations now.