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NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
63,004
16,471
136
I think that it’s insane for a union to take a stand in favor of anti-vaxxers. The union is supposed to look out for the interests of its members and pulling for a few morons at a risk to all its members is contrary to the whole purpose of unions; shame on that union. Unions fighting health and safety measures shows a level of stupidity that should have their members pushing for new elections to throw out the clowns.

I faced the same problem this summer with one of the contractors working on a project with us. “The union says we don’t have to wear masks so we’re not going to.” The customer finally said “fuck’em and feed them fish heads” and kicked the dumbasses off the project.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,793
12,520
136
What if they have a documented positive test, and have natural immunity?
Available data indicates that this is insufficient protection from Delta and that people who were infected should receive at least one dose of vaccine. Studies show that people with previous infection who get one dose have very high levels of antibody response which makes sense since the infection acts as the original prime.
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,793
12,520
136
If you are immune-compromised or have other co-morbidities that require you to live in a bubble - then do that. I'm following the science that says I've been vaccinated, my chances of becoming hospitalized or dying is so low that driving is riskier!

CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9 million – 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010.

Norway -
Norway can relax their measures because the country is highly vaccinated, much more than the US. Relatedly Norway still denies entry to US citizens...

Screen Shot 2021-09-25 at 5.25.01 PM.png
 
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Dr. Detroit

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2004
7,734
301
126
Available data indicates that this is insufficient protection from Delta and that people who were infected should receive at least one dose of vaccine. Studies show that people with previous infection who get one dose have very high levels of antibody response which makes sense since the infection acts as the original prime.
Not sure about that statement of yours based on the recent Israeli study - The vaccine would seem to improve protection of those with natural immunity, but natual immunity is still considerably better than those vaccinated ~13x.

The natural immune protection that develops after a SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably more of a shield against the Delta variant of the pandemic coronavirus than two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a large Israeli study that some scientists wish came with a “Don’t try this at home” label. The newly released data show people who once had a SARS-CoV-2 infection were much less likely than never-infected, vaccinated people to get Delta, develop symptoms from it, or become hospitalized with serious COVID-19.

 

Dr. Detroit

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2004
7,734
301
126
Norway can relax their measures because the country is highly vaccinated, much more than the US. Relatedly Norway still denies entry to US citizens...
Our high risk populations are overwhelmingly vaccinated plus we have had over 42million positive cases.

What is good enough?

1632610117253.png



1632610577111.png
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,793
12,520
136
Not sure about that statement of yours based on the recent Israeli study - The vaccine would seem to improve protection of those with natural immunity, but natual immunity is still considerably better than those vaccinated ~13x.

The natural immune protection that develops after a SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably more of a shield against the Delta variant of the pandemic coronavirus than two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a large Israeli study that some scientists wish came with a “Don’t try this at home” label. The newly released data show people who once had a SARS-CoV-2 infection were much less likely than never-infected, vaccinated people to get Delta, develop symptoms from it, or become hospitalized with serious COVID-19.

I'm aware of this study but given the limitations would prefer so see replication preferably from the UK. They could have substantially underestimated asymptomatic infections and only the Pfizer/BNT vaccine is considered, as noted in the paper. Multiple US studies indicate that natural infection plus vaccination is superior to vaccinating but you have to contract in the first place which is undesirable.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,793
12,520
136
Our high risk populations are overwhelmingly vaccinated plus we have had over 42million positive cases.

What is good enough?
Given the huge disparity in death rates between the two countries I'm going to say even with natural infections we are still way short.
 

H T C

Senior member
Nov 7, 2018
407
242
86
Our high risk populations are overwhelmingly vaccinated plus we have had over 42million positive cases.

What is good enough?

View attachment 50681



View attachment 50683
Let's take the example of the 65 to 74 age bracket: with that percentage of fully vaccinated, how many people do you think are YET to receive @ least one dose? 5 million? More? Let's say, for the sake of argument, 5% of 5M people get infected: that's 250K right there, and the odds of those people swamping the hospitals are very high in that age group, and that's just ONE OF FOUR "more problematic" age groups, according to the deaths graph you posted.

THIS is what high risk populations "overwhelmingly vaccinated" look like:

Screenshot from 2021-09-22 19-48-24.png

- top left --- people with @ least one dose
- top right --- people fully vaccinated: includes people with just one dose that had a previous COVID infection as well as people that took the single dose vaccine
- middle left --- age groups
- middle center --- @ least one dose: people and percentage
- middle right --- fully vaccinated: people and percentage
- bottom left --- doses the country has received
- bottom right --- doses the country has administered
 

Dr. Detroit

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2004
7,734
301
126
Can we all stop talking out our ass -

Here we go with more statistics - now lets extrapolate! Who are most at risk? Population by age group. Percentage vaccinated. And lastly Natural Immunity.

So 32.2M folks in the 65 - 74 group with 95.7% vaxed = 1.4M Unvaxed and how many of those folks have tested positive?

And I get folks who say Trust The Science, I publish the Science and its move the goalpost!



1632614464641.png

1632614245685.png
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,793
12,520
136
Feel free to ague the death rate doesn't exist but I'm going with its pretty strong suggestion that the US does not have similar immunity to Norway or other highly vaccinated nations.

Screen Shot 2021-09-25 at 7.10.41 PM.png

Screen Shot 2021-09-25 at 7.10.51 PM.png
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,762
4,161
126
Will Booster shots be the next mandate?

I'm vaccinated and ready to just get Covid and be done with this shit. Its ineviteble we will all get this at some point based on the Breakthrough cases which are adding up in our circle of associates, coworkers, and friends. Many of these folks are not even getting tested and just toughing it out for 48-72hrs of illness.

Seems like natural immunity post vaccine is the way to go.
I figure if you get a booster and then catch covid you're likely to have a milder case and less likely to suffer hospitalization or long-covid than if you eschew your booster. Also less likely to infect others.

Boosters are beneficial, but the game changer now is getting the unvaxxed vaxxed. Here and everywhere.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
10,478
4,502
136
I think that it’s insane for a union to take a stand in favor of anti-vaxxers. The union is supposed to look out for the interests of its members and pulling for a few morons at a risk to all its members is contrary to the whole purpose of unions; shame on that union. Unions fighting health and safety measures shows a level of stupidity that should have their members pushing for new elections to throw out the clowns.

I faced the same problem this summer with one of the contractors working on a project with us. “The union says we don’t have to wear masks so we’re not going to.” The customer finally said “fuck’em and feed them fish heads” and kicked the dumbasses off the project.
Yeah, I am a pretty pro-union guy, but the second unions start fighting against work place safety, is when they have jumped the shark IMHO.
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
20,196
3,250
126
If you are immune-compromised or have other co-morbidities that require you to live in a bubble - then do that. I'm following the science that says I've been vaccinated, my chances of becoming hospitalized or dying is so low that driving is riskier!

CDC estimates that influenza has resulted in between 9 million – 45 million illnesses, between 140,000 – 810,000 hospitalizations and between 12,000 – 61,000 deaths annually since 2010.

Norway -

I also am vaccinated and may well have been exposed early in the pandemic, plus I've been going out and doing stuff all summer.

I'm still avoiding things like cramped/crowded bars, restaurants or stores.... but then I avoided those places long before Covid!

:p

However using the fact that the single most dangerous thing most adults do on a daily basis (driving a car) is more likely to kill you then Covid as a rationale to persuade yourself getting Covid will be "just fine" is quite a stretch .... I commend you. (lol)

;)
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
10,478
4,502
136
Can we all stop talking out our ass -

Here we go with more statistics - now lets extrapolate! Who are most at risk? Population by age group. Percentage vaccinated. And lastly Natural Immunity.

So 32.2M folks in the 65 - 74 group with 95.7% vaxed = 1.4M Unvaxed and how many of those folks have tested positive?

And I get folks who say Trust The Science, I publish the Science and its move the goalpost!



View attachment 50687

View attachment 50686
WTF is up with the 75+ people? There are 2.2M unvaxxed within that group.

Not really sure what you are trying to argue, though. I think it is pretty obvious our hospitals can fill up right now, considering they are in much of the country with lower vaccination rates.
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
20,196
3,250
126
Everyone is sick and tired of Covid BUT giving up precautions and talking down the vaccine now is NOT the answer.

Vaccine mandates have been used many times in the past and have successfully eliminated terrible diseases. Even though I don't like the idea they may well be required THIS time to beat Covid.

Pity there's no vaccine for paranoia and sheer stupidity. :confused:
 
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Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
61,128
9,187
126
www.uovalor.com
Yeah, I am a pretty pro-union guy, but the second unions start fighting against work place safety, is when they have jumped the shark IMHO.
What they're fighting against is terminating people for non work performance related behavior. In a way, being on the street is probably more dangerous than a virus that has a 99.7% survival rate so this is not even about safety at all. Perceived safety should not trump job security. If the company feels the vaccine does not work well enough then they should continue to let people work from home. They're only doing this so they can expedite bringing everyone back to the office. Heck, they even require people who work from home permanently (some will get that privilege) to get vaccinated. There is no logic behind this mandate. I'm vaccinated myself, could not care less if someone sitting next to me is not. The vaccine has been shown to be very effective. If half the people don't want it, I don't really care. Their jobs should not be threatened by it, it's nuts to do that.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,762
4,161
126
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Dr. Detroit

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2004
7,734
301
126
I also am vaccinated and may well have been exposed early in the pandemic, plus I've been going out and doing stuff all summer.

I'm still avoiding things like cramped/crowded bars, restaurants or stores.... but then I avoided those places long before Covid!

:p

However using the fact that the single most dangerous thing most adults do on a daily basis (driving a car) is more likely to kill you then Covid as a rationale to persuade yourself getting Covid will be "just fine" is quite a stretch .... I commend you. (lol)

;)
I'm truly amazed at people who continue to spout nonsensical opinions when the "science & statistics" disagree.:oops:

The science & statistics are on my side especially when you consider I have none of the below factors, so yeah, why fear a breakthrough case and the welcome natural immunity that comes from it.
  • Age<50
  • Underlying health conditions (comorbidity)
  • Vaccine status

1632681194902.png

1632681333344.png


1632681586234.png
 

JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
10,488
448
136
I'm truly amazed at people who continue to spout nonsensical opinions when the "science & statistics" disagree.:oops:

The science & statistics are on my side especially when you consider I have none of the below factors, so yeah, why fear a breakthrough case and the welcome natural immunity that comes from it.
Why are you afraid of the vaccine?
 
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balloonshark

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2008
5,129
1,433
136
Could someone please briefly explain the difference between these two?

* Percentage of fully vaccinated people who developed covid-19. (No idea how they come up with the 1.27%)
* Percentage of breakthrough cases since the start of the vaccination. (I understand how they get the 6.54%)

 

manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
9,233
679
126
WTF is up with the 75+ people? There are 2.2M unvaxxed within that group.

Not really sure what you are trying to argue, though. I think it is pretty obvious our hospitals can fill up right now, considering they are in much of the country with lower vaccination rates.
Ages 75+ can be particularly frail and I suspect their doctors do not recommend vaccination for the weakest amongst them. IIRC there was a higher incidence of death in Norway at the beginning of vaccinations and the common thread was they were very old and frail. I think everybody would like to immunize 100% of this group, but it may not be feasible. Although Portgual seems to have done it so who knows?

The good "Doctor" Detroit was here a few weeks back with the one pre-print study and the same outrage over vaccine mandates. He said then the U.S. doesn't do science and research. I believe he's on record as saying he voted to recall Gavin Newsom to forestall wider mandates. Now he's saying he's the only one of us who understands science and statistics LOL.

On the one hand, he argues against mandates. OTOH he presents all this strong data that proves vaccines largely prevent severe COVID. Looks like now he's suggesting that layering a breakthrough infection after immunization confers even stronger immunity, which I don't think any study has shown. But hey I'm not a "doctor" or epidemiologist, and I don't have a single pre-print study to refute all other available evidence to date.
 
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