NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

[ponyo]

I'm pissed because the free-dumb anti-vaxxers are fucking up MY LIFE. They are prolonging the pandemic and making it possible (probable) for further mutations to occur.

We're going to get more mutations. We're hoarding the vaccines for ourselves. Look at the rest of the world. Vaccine rates in many first world countries are still super low. Second and third world countries probably won't be vaccinated til like 2023 or longer at this rate if they're lucky. Might be 2024 or 2025 at current pace since we hoard all the vaccine for ourselves. Covid is staying with us whether we like it or not. Better get used to it.

 

[Muse]

We're going to get more mutations. We're hoarding the vaccines for ourselves. Look at the rest of the world. Vaccine rates in many first world countries are still super low. Second and third world countries probably won't be vaccinated til like 2023 or longer at this rate if they're lucky. Might be 2024 or 2025 at current pace since we hoard all the vaccine for ourselves. Covid is staying with us whether we like it or not. Better get used to it.

There's only so much vaccine we can use, our population is limited. Plus they have expiration dates. It's not like we have 4 billion doses sitting in our freezers. We can give away some (and have). It's clearly in everyone's best interest to get the whole human populace of the planet vaccinated. Obviously it's a matter of years before high rates of vaccination can be achieved. Big problems for years.

 

[K1052]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1422704104732864520

 

[Svnla]

Japanese government is asking their citizens if they are not too sick from covid, they should stay at home and isolate, saving the hospital beds for those that are in critical conditions. Knowing how united they are (how well they behaved together during numerous natural disasters), it would be a cake walk. Good luck trying to do that here.

 

[Zorba]

Most adults are now vaccinated. It's the kids that's the problem. Many parents don't want to vaccinate their kids, and I understand their concern. Statically, kids have really low chance of dying from covid even if they get it. So while it's smart for anyone over 18 to get covid shot, the data is not convincing for younger kids.

That's true for MMR, chicken pox, flu, Tetanus, etc too. Actually more true.

 

[MrSquished]

Actually I've heard crime has gone up by a lot in NYC during the virus. Not 80s-90s bad but worse than it had been.

Well you are way way off. A big lesson to learn in this country is that a certain wing of the media is all lies, and the mainstream media, while more based in reality, is still sensationalist. If it bleeds it leads still stands. So they go along with the schtick and make things look worse than they are. That shit gets clicks and views.

Did things get worse from pre-covid to during covid? Absolutely yes. But under DiBlasio you can see crime was at historic historic lows. For reference for the data below Bill took over as mayor in 2014. So it really just went closer to rates under Bloomberg's last few years. Bringing up the 80's and 90's is completely irrelevant and misinformation.

Let's look at historical data at the link below, straight from the NYC police department records. This goes from 2000 through 2020. So 2020 includes the majority of the year when certain media and people in the former administration were basically calling the city lawless and claiming it was going back to the worst days in its history. The data says completely otherwise. If you look at the data, for major seven felonies, in most categories the numbers are similar to under Bloomberg's later terms, or in many categories still UNDER those last few years, and those years were seen as a true part of NYC's renaissance. If you look at the seven non-major felonies and misdemeanors they are actually still quite a bit better in 2020 than Bloomberg's later years. And we heard no such propaganda during Bloomberg's term.

Crime Stats - Historical - NYPD

I have yet to dig deep into the 2021 numbers but I suspect the numbers are similar. Also I did read that with less than a week left in July, NYC was set to have one of the lowest homicide rates for a July in recorded history ever.



If you look at data this year for Houston, as of this article from June this year, murders are not only up much more percentage wise than other larger cities often called massive Democrat murder zones, like NYC and LA, but literally there are more actual murders than cities much larger. Ratio wise Houston is a death zone compared to NYC and Los Angeles.

"HOUSTON – Homicide rates are rising once again across the country after last year’s spike, and Houston is faring worse than the largest U.S. cities.

Four homicides in Houston in the last 24-hours have brought the total this year to 199, a 35% increase over 2020.

Compare that to only a 5% increase in homicides so far over last year in Chicago, a 17% increase in New York and a 23% increase in Los Angeles.

The total number of homicides is also higher in Houston than in Los Angeles, a city with nearly twice the population. It’s also higher than New York City, a city of more than eight million people."

Houston homicides up 35%, which is much higher than Chicago, LA or NY

Homicide rates are rising once again across the country after last year’s spike, and Houston is faring worse than the largest U.S. cities.

www.click2houston.com

So what do we have here. Houston, literally has more actual murders than two far more populous cities. Not just percentage gain, but actual murders. And do we hear how Houston is a death zone? Nope. It's in TX. NYC? It's a liberal haven. You can figure out why there is that disparity in reality.

 

[MrSquished]

We're going to get more mutations. We're hoarding the vaccines for ourselves. Look at the rest of the world. Vaccine rates in many first world countries are still super low. Second and third world countries probably won't be vaccinated til like 2023 or longer at this rate if they're lucky. Might be 2024 or 2025 at current pace since we hoard all the vaccine for ourselves. Covid is staying with us whether we like it or not. Better get used to it.

This is the future. Mask up indoors if you want to, and get boosters if you feel the data supports it. I will happily take boosters as needed and I happily mask up these days in places like public transit. I do eat and drink indoors but I can't live completely in fear as a fully vaxxed individual, so I lessen my exposure odds in other indoor spaces. Today I had Hot Pot in Sunset Park Brooklyn and I enjoyed myself. Then I had a couple beers at the local pub down the block from me and it was busy.

In regards to what Pfizer and Moderna and J&J do, they want to sell vaccines, so their motives aren't going to be totally altruistic. I bet a bunch of the researchers and scientists at those companies are doing it to help humanity and are totally being altruistic, but the business side? They just want money, all they see is a bottom line. So do the research.

But variants, and probably boosters, are going to be a big part of the next few years as they develop all over the world in these unvaxxed areas for sure.

 

[Spacehead]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1422704104732864520

Hopefully this will tip some of those on the fence towards getting vaccinated.

 

[jpiniero]

Did things get worse from pre-covid to during covid? Absolutely yes. But under DiBlasio you can see crime was at historic historic lows. For reference for the data below Bill took over as mayor in 2014. So it really just went closer to rates under Bloomberg's last few years. Bringing up the 80's and 90's is completely irrelevant and misinformation.

You don't tend to hear about crime when it's flat or trending downward. Only when it spikes up. It may be more of an urban problem than something NYC specific.

 

[Muse]

Most adults are now vaccinated. It's the kids that's the problem. Many parents don't want to vaccinate their kids, and I understand their concern. Statically, kids have really low chance of dying from covid even if they get it. So while it's smart for anyone over 18 to get covid shot, the data is not convincing for younger kids.

Is the Delta Variant Making Younger Adults ‘Sicker, Quicker’? (Published 2021)

Many doctors on the front lines say unvaccinated patients in their 20s and 30s are becoming more severely ill, and more quickly. But comprehensive data is lacking.

www.nytimes.com

Recently, a 28-year-old patient died of Covid-19 at CoxHealth Medical Center in Springfield, Mo. Last week, a 21-year-old college student was admitted to intensive care.

Many of the patients with Covid-19 now arriving at the hospital are not just unvaccinated — they are much younger than 50, a stark departure from the frail, older patients seen when the pandemic first surged last year.

In Baton Rouge, La., young adults with none of the usual risk factors for severe forms of the disease — such as obesity or diabetes — are also arriving in E.R.s, desperately ill. It isn’t clear why they are so sick.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Pfizer is confident third booster shot will create enough immunity to protect against delta.

“The good news is that we are very, very confident that a third dose, a booster, will take up the immune response to levels that will be enough to protect against the delta variant,”

The effectiveness of Pfizer’s Covid-19 vaccine steadily declines over time, dropping to about 84% for vaccinated people about four to six months after getting their second dose, according to CEO Albert Bourla.

Pfizer's CEO says Covid vaccine effectiveness drops to 84% after six months

Pfizer's vaccine initially protects people 100% of the time against hospitalization, but that falls to low 90% and mid-to-high 80% after 6 months, Bourla said.

www.cnbc.com

 

[Roger Wilco]

I took my vaccine a few months ago, but if the data really shows that a third shot significantly bolsters immunity, then I will probably try to figure out how to get one asap.

 

[ponyo]

Is the Delta Variant Making Younger Adults ‘Sicker, Quicker’? (Published 2021)

Many doctors on the front lines say unvaccinated patients in their 20s and 30s are becoming more severely ill, and more quickly. But comprehensive data is lacking.

www.nytimes.com

Recently, a 28-year-old patient died of Covid-19 at CoxHealth Medical Center in Springfield, Mo. Last week, a 21-year-old college student was admitted to intensive care.

Many of the patients with Covid-19 now arriving at the hospital are not just unvaccinated — they are much younger than 50, a stark departure from the frail, older patients seen when the pandemic first surged last year.

In Baton Rouge, La., young adults with none of the usual risk factors for severe forms of the disease — such as obesity or diabetes — are also arriving in E.R.s, desperately ill. It isn’t clear why they are so sick.

I'm talking about kids under 18. There's no data I've seen anywhere that says kids under 18 are dying at elevated rate from covid. Is there even data available that compares covid death vs flu death for kids under 18? I want to see that data. Right now in many parents mind, risk of side effects and future unknown from covid shots are greater than risk of covid hospitalization and death from covid for their kids. And they might be right. We don't have the data to say they're right or wrong one way or other. Or we have the data and they're either withholding or haven't released it yet. Regardless, it's hard to fault the parents who haven't vaccinated their 12-17 year olds when you haven't given them good enough data and reason to vaccinate their kids.

 

[Zorba]

Breakthrough cases aren’t the cause of the US Covid-19 surge

Unvaccinated people still make up the vast majority of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths.

www.vox.com

 

[K1052]

We don't have the data to say they're right or wrong one way or other. Or we have the data and they're either withholding or haven't released it yet. Regardless, it's hard to fault the parents who haven't vaccinated their 12-17 year olds when you haven't given them good enough data and reason to vaccinate their kids.

If concerning adverse reactions beyond what was anticipated from Pfizer's phase 3 results were seen the FDA would halted dosing in that age range. The extra data is in the millions who've received the vaccine. At this point yes I think it is fair to say the people withholding their kids from being vaccinated who are otherwise eligible are making a mistake not just for them but for everybody else since they're perfectly good little incubators and spreaders of a deadly contagion even if it impacts them at lower rates.

 

[Zorba]

I'm talking about kids under 18. There's no data I've seen anywhere that says kids under 18 are dying at elevated rate from covid. Is there even data available that compares covid death vs flu death for kids under 18? I want to see that data. Right now in many parents mind, risk of side effects and future unknown from covid shots are greater than risk of covid hospitalization and death from covid for their kids. And they might be right. We don't have the data to say they're right or wrong one way or other. Or we have the data and they're either withholding or haven't released it yet. Regardless, it's hard to fault the parents who haven't vaccinated their 12-17 year olds when you haven't given them good enough data and reason to vaccinate their kids.

That data is extremely easy to find. The gross numbers are about double for COVID (408) than the Flu (199), adjusted for actual case load, COVID is much worse. The age skew is a bit different with flu usually killing younger kids, while COVID is older kids. The idea that kids don't get COVID is bullshit. There is also a lot a lot of gray between no effects and dead. The data is being buried by people that stand to profit off the suffering of teenagers.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths: Focus on Ages 0-18 Years | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

data.cdc.gov

Pediatric Flu Deaths During 2019-2020 Reach New High | CDC

Everything you need to know about the flu illness, including symptoms, treatment and prevention.

www.cdc.gov

I keep asking and I have yet to get a response. Name one vaccine that had significant long term effects that weren't known within 6 months. Parents give their kids all kinds of things that either have no FDA testing or have known long term health effects without any thought. How come its only the greatest health invention of all time that parents decide "hmm, maybe I should look into this."

Also, let's talk about the harm to teens from not being able to have a normal school year, AGAIN. If every parent got their teen vaccinated and every teacher got vaccinated, middle schools and high schools would be completely normal this year. Instead, we have another year of quarantines, limited activities, etc. But at least you've protected your child against something that can literally save their life with an extremely low rate of side effects. Robert Kennedy Jr and Alex Jones appreciates the hits and you buying their make believe "cures."

 

[ponyo]

That data is extremely easy to find. The gross numbers are about double for COVID (408) than the Flu (199), adjusted for actual case load, COVID is much worse. The age skew is a bit different with flu usually killing younger kids, while COVID is older kids. The idea that kids don't get COVID is bullshit. There is also a lot a lot of gray between no effects and dead. The data is being buried by people that stand to profit off the suffering of teenagers.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths: Focus on Ages 0-18 Years | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

data.cdc.gov

Pediatric Flu Deaths During 2019-2020 Reach New High | CDC

Everything you need to know about the flu illness, including symptoms, treatment and prevention.

www.cdc.gov

I keep asking and I have yet to get a response. Name one vaccine that had significant long term effects that weren't known within 6 months. Parents give their kids all kinds of things that either have no FDA testing or have known long term health effects without any thought. How come its only the greatest health invention of all time that parents decide "hmm, maybe I should look into this."

Also, let's talk about the harm to teens from not being able to have a normal school year, AGAIN. If every parent got their teen vaccinated and every teacher got vaccinated, middle schools and high schools would be completely normal this year. Instead, we have another year of quarantines, limited activities, etc. But at least you've protected your child against something that can literally save their life with an extremely low rate of side effects. Robert Kennedy Jr and Alex Jones appreciates the hits and you buying their make believe "cures."

Thanks for that cdc data link. That's very interesting and supports the view of parents who don't think risk/reward of the covid vaccine is worth it for their kids. I can see why that data is not front page news. Because parents wouldn't vaccinate their kids if that data was common knowledge.

Teachers and schools want kids vaccinated because they don't want covid. It's not for the kids. It's for them. But it's going to be hard to convince people to vaccinate their kids if that cdc data is all we have. Because when I look at that cdc data, it says risk/reward is not there and maybe parents shouldn't vaccinate their kids. I think you can make case either way and you can't convince or force parents based on that weak data.

 

[K1052]

Thanks for that cdc data link. That's very interesting and supports the view of parents who don't think risk/reward of the covid vaccine is worth it for their kids. I can see why that data is not front page news. Because parents wouldn't vaccinate their kids if that data was common knowledge.

Teachers and schools want kids vaccinated because they don't want covid. It's not for the kids. It's for them. But it's going to be hard to convince people to vaccinate their kids if that cdc data is all we have. Because when I look at that cdc data, it says risk/reward is not there and maybe parents shouldn't vaccinate their kids. I think you can make case either way and you can't convince or force parents based on that weak data.

What in the hell

 

[Zorba]

Thanks for that cdc data link. That's very interesting and supports the view of parents who don't think risk/reward of the covid vaccine is worth it for their kids. I can see why that data is not front page news. Because parents wouldn't vaccinate their kids if that data was common knowledge.

Teachers and schools want kids vaccinated because they don't want covid. It's not for the kids. It's for them. But it's going to be hard to convince people to vaccinate their kids if that cdc data is all we have. Because when I look at that cdc data, it says risk/reward is not there and maybe parents shouldn't vaccinate their kids. I think you can make case either way and you can't convince or force parents based on that weak data.

Yeah, fuck dead kids. Why give them any vaccines, none of those diseases alone had massively high death rates.

Also meanwhile my state has ZERO pediatric hospital beds available. God forbid your kid gets hit by a car, that bed is taken up by someone with a preventable disease.

 

[Zorba]

Thanks for that cdc data link. That's very interesting and supports the view of parents who don't think risk/reward of the covid vaccine is worth it for their kids. I can see why that data is not front page news. Because parents wouldn't vaccinate their kids if that data was common knowledge.

Teachers and schools want kids vaccinated because they don't want covid. It's not for the kids. It's for them. But it's going to be hard to convince people to vaccinate their kids if that cdc data is all we have. Because when I look at that cdc data, it says risk/reward is not there and maybe parents shouldn't vaccinate their kids. I think you can make case either way and you can't convince or force parents based on that weak data.

Again, post some data that shows the risk of vaccines exceed the risk of COVID.

BTW, it's posts like this that made me surprised you started wearing masks again. Generally people spewing anti-vax propaganda and claim it doesn't affect kids are also anti-mask.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

risk/reward

You keep saying that, I don't think you know what that means.

What risk, exactly?

 

[Roger Wilco]

Thanks for that cdc data link. That's very interesting and supports the view of parents who don't think risk/reward of the covid vaccine is worth it for their kids. I can see why that data is not front page news. Because parents wouldn't vaccinate their kids if that data was common knowledge.

Teachers and schools want kids vaccinated because they don't want covid. It's not for the kids. It's for them. But it's going to be hard to convince people to vaccinate their kids if that cdc data is all we have. Because when I look at that cdc data, it says risk/reward is not there and maybe parents shouldn't vaccinate their kids. I think you can make case either way and you can't convince or force parents based on that weak data.

I watched my wife rush my 2-year-old daughter to the ER with covid. She had severe headaches and could do nothing but scream. I remember briefly hiding from my eldest daughter so I could cry and process the fact that I had no idea what was going to happen to my child, and then I had to recompose myself and be strong for my eldest. She recovered, thank God, but she barely ate or drank anything for weeks because she said it all tasted "old." Who knows what the long-term effects will be.

This all before we had vaccines available to us, and this was not a delta infection.

If vaccines area available for kids, then fucking get them vaccinated.

 

[Zorba]

I watched my wife rush my 2-year-old daughter to the ER with covid. She had severe headaches and could do nothing but scream. I remember briefly hiding from my eldest daughter so I could cry and process the fact that I had no idea what was going to happen to my child, and then I had to recompose myself and be strong for my eldest. She recovered, thank God, but she barely ate or drank anything for weeks because she said it all tasted "old." Who knows what the long-term effects will be.

This all before we had vaccines available to us, and this was not a delta infection.

If vaccines area available for kids, then fucking get them vaccinated.

I know a healthy 6 year-old that was in and out of the hospital for 6 months with COVID and now has permanent lung damage.

This is a girl that could swim 25m laps at 3 years old (her mom owns a swim school).

 

[uclaLabrat]

Thanks for that cdc data link. That's very interesting and supports the view of parents who don't think risk/reward of the covid vaccine is worth it for their kids. I can see why that data is not front page news. Because parents wouldn't vaccinate their kids if that data was common knowledge.

Teachers and schools want kids vaccinated because they don't want covid. It's not for the kids. It's for them. But it's going to be hard to convince people to vaccinate their kids if that cdc data is all we have. Because when I look at that cdc data, it says risk/reward is not there and maybe parents shouldn't vaccinate their kids. I think you can make case either way and you can't convince or force parents based on that weak data.

You are astoundingly bad at analyzing data if that's the conclusion you drew.

 

[MrSquished]

You don't tend to hear about crime when it's flat or trending downward. Only when it spikes up. It may be more of an urban problem than something NYC specific.

Of course there is a tendency to report the bad more than the good in some areas of the news, crime is definitely one of them. Again, if it bleeds it leads. Of course it's going to be urban focused, population density is where the most crime is, but you are wrong that it is simply NYC problem, it is 100% a political one. I can use multiple cities in certain states but again let's use Houston. In 2020, Houston had over 400 homicides. NYC had 468. Houston is 1/3 the population. On a per capita basis Houston is a death zone compared to NYC. But nothing anywhere as close to the exposure in the national media and in fact NYC is seen by many as where you go to get murdered. For 2021, how can the fact that Houston has more murders than cities 2x and 3x bigger than it not be national news right now? Even you yourself, while saying NYC was not quite the same as the 80's or 90's, still used the comparison in the same breath as well, implying that it's not that bad yet... The power is in the statement. I can link up data to the bad years of the 80's and 90's and make my point, but feel free to research how even just saying what you said is extremely misleading.

Houston is a big city, the largest in TX. This should be in the conversation. I have seen, and as Zorba said, many many people online outside of NYC telling people that live there or are planning to visit, it's a murder zone, it's so much crime and completely lawless, etc...They should look in their own backyards. Meanwhile everyone in NYC is trying to find the best spot for brunch.

‘There is too much gun violence in our city’: Homicide rate 42% higher now than in 2020

As KPRC 2 Investigates reported Wednesday night, the Houston Police Department has only brought onboard 14 detectives since announcing on December 20 that new homicide detectives would soon be added to the division.

www.click2houston.com

"In 2020, over 400 homicides were recorded in the city of Houston. In 2021, we are already pushing 225 homicides with more days to go in the month of June. To put that number into perspective, in the entire year of 2014, HPD recorded only 213 homicides....

....
According to HPD’s numbers, there’s a 42% increase in homicides this year compared to 2020.

What kind of trajectory does that number put the city on for the total number of homicides this year? Roughly 575.""


I see the same data when it comes to a lot of other cities when you look at a per capita basis, you are far more likely to be murdered there than in NYC. Atlanta, same thing. Dallas. Louisville, KY? This is as of September 2020, so still 3 months to go in the year:

More people were killed in Louisville this year than ever before in the city's history | CNN

After four people were shot and killed over a bloody weekend in Louisville, Kentucky, the city reached a new record -- 121 murders so far this year.

www.cnn.com

"After four people were shot and killed over a bloody weekend in Louisville, Kentucky, the city reached a new record -- 121 murders so far this year.
The number of homicides is the most the city has ever seen, according to statistics from the Louisville Metro Police Department, and there are still three months left in the year. The violent record comes as some federal buildings have closed and police operate under a state of emergency as the city awaits an announcement in the state's investigation into the killing of Breonna Taylor."

Louisville population is 600K, looking to hit 150 murders last year. It's more than 3x worse than NYC murder rates. I can keep providing data, and keep proving my point. It's the ability of one side to dictate the conversation, to whom lying and misrepresentation is not a normal portion of how they operate, every side bullshits some, but it is the primary way of how they operate.