NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

[CZroe]

Yes, the government wasted so much time that could have been well used to prevent this disaster. The Chinese lied of course but the decision not to protect ourselves was entirely one of our own choosing...or rather the choosing of the wildly dysfunctional government in power.

That was the CDC's call. I think they should have been acquiring tests even if they wanted to develop their own. It's unfortunate that the first attempt was flawed but at least they caught it early.

Just to drive the point home a bit more. We probably need 100M mask a day in the US. We need 100,000s of foggers and UV-C disinfectant machines to clean contact surfaces clean overnight in office buildings, planes and subways. If we are at war, then let's act like it, use the DPA and get this stuff into mass production. Also, where or the government PSAs on TV and social media pushing the use of proper safety measures? Let's wake up.

100 million masks a day is an absolutely insane number. There are only 300 million people in the USA and we shouldn't be throwing away one mask per American every 3 days. Mostly healthcare workers need to be using and disposing them frequently, not the general public.

 

[manly]

What's funny how, from the start, I've been saying exactly what you are saying here and yet you act like I was saying the opposite and disagree.

What I did was force people here to acknowledge that US testing had improved when post after post after post was being made with the presumption that testing was as bad as it was in early/mid March. Someone had to say it.

Most of what you say is fact-based, so I'm not calling you out on that basis. Your motivations have never been understood by me, as you're consistently within the "blame China" camp for whatever that is worth. So no, you weren't saying exactly what I just said. From my understanding, the Germans released a PCR test spec on or around Jan. 23rd, and this spec was what much of the world adopted. Why reinvent the wheel?

So your latest assertion that dodgy Chinese antibodies tests was a leading cause of worldwide testing shortfalls isn't supported by the historical record. As for USA testing, we both agree the CDC's decisions and implementation cost the U.S. all of February. Of course, U.S. Covid-19 testing had improved since early March; what a super-low baseline to compare to. But that isn't even the actual argument you were making weeks ago when you said flat out the U.S. leads the world in Covid-19 testing. If you solely meant on a raw # basis, then that's true but isn't my definition of world-leading. Most experts say we've gotten a lot better, but we still need to get a lot better.

In short, there are things we agree on and other things we disagree on. In no way am I misrepresenting your record although occasionally there are small misunderstandings.

 

[Brainonska511]

I book my vacations pretty far out. I've got a trip planned to hit the coast in 2 weeks that I paid for back in 2018.

I phoned the resort and they're planning on opening up their swimming pools in 5 days, as safely as possible. I've been on the fence about going, because my kids will try to spend time at the pool. The resort has 4 buildings, with 3-4 stories per building and 4 rooms per floor (all 3BR units) I figure there's about 64 units total and they'll be running 50-75% capacity. Social distancing is possible. I'll schedule a grocery pickup and cook in the room.

Anyone else gonna travel, despite the various lockdowns? Am I nuts for keeping up with my plans?

I understand why you'd want to keep the plans, but I'd probably bag the trip, especially if you can get some reimbursement on the cancellation.

Back in February, before everything totally blew up, we had planned a trip to the UK for July. I did have the foresight to buy an any-reason cancellation insurance policy as the coronavirus situation started to worsen. So now, I sit on those plans, which are likely to be cancelled. At least I'll get some money back (insurance covers 75% for "any reason cancellation"; and I think the flight, through Delta, has become fully refundable)

 

[DrMrLordX]

it's imperative to accept short term economic pain

This "economic pain" will not be short-term.

 

[Brainonska511]

Yeah, my grocery bill went up 40%, easily. Sure, I have to buy food for lunch now, but I noticed that some items costs 10% more than they did before.

I don't think my bill went up that much. We've definitely had to buy more, now that my wife is also eating lunch at home (I already worked from home, pre-pandemic). I've also noticed fewer deals overall.

 

[snoopy7548]

lol the people on this forum....

I would honestly love to see the responses from hard-liner "STAY AT HOME!" folks if come July a new pandemic starts up again.

JUST STAY AT HOME! Economies be damned! I know the food bank is out of resources, money, and food - but just stay home!

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

View attachment 21023

Meh, only about 90% of the jobs lost thus far are lower and middle class. But who cares, right? Fuck em! Out of sight out of mind amirite? It's hilarious because the rich are fine. The trillions and trillions of bailouts have served the rich supremely fine.

Look I don't care, I'm currently on 100% paid leave from my 2nd kid. But if you think that this isn't drastically hurting the people that you claim to defend but (in reality) trample on everyday, then you're just blissfully unaware.

STAY HOME! Make meals yourself! Magically pay your mortgage, car payment, credit cards, groceries, gas, electric, water/utilities, cable, internet, and everything with some table scraps.

Don't you DARE try to earn a living and not starve yourself! How SELFISH of you! Also the food banks are running out and have lines longer than during the great depression so have fun with that lololol.

 

[ponyo]

This is why I just asked about who's taking vacation time... I'm going to the beach because I can shelter in place there almost as easily as here... With the exception of swimming pool area and passing people on the boardwalk, I can distance pretty easily.

I'm sort of pessimistic highly effective vaccine will be developed this year or even next year. So I'm thinking about maybe buying compact RV I can tow with my truck and traveling across America and camping in RV. I figure maybe I can do that for the next 2 years and hope for a vaccine or treatment. But I've never done RV camping. I don't know if it will be huge hassle, or if I will like it. The compact RVs are only $15-20k new so it's very tempting.

 

[Svnla]

Per Bloomberg, there are several outbreaks of new cases in the two chinese provinces (Jilin and Laoning) closest to N. Korea. Uh oh.

 

[Ajay]

Per Bloomberg, there are several outbreaks of new cases in the two chinese provinces (Jilin and Laoning) closest to N. Korea. Uh oh.

I had read various accounts of people leaving Hubei province before the shutdown. This is the best article I could find quickly, showing that 5M people left Wuhan b/4 the shutdown: Where did they go?
So, I am pretty much shocked that China hasn't had a larger, more sustained outbreak than has been reported.

 

[ponyo]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/14/wisconsin-supreme-court-strikes-down-states-stay-at-home-order.html

The Wisconsin Supreme Court on Wednesday struck down the state’s stay-at-home orders during the coronavirus pandemic as “unlawful, invalid and unenforceable” after finding the state’s health commissioner exceeded her authority.

In a 4-3 ruling, the court called State Department of Health head Andrea Palm’s directive, known as Emergency Order 28, a “vast seizure of power.”

 

[K1052]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/14/wisconsin-supreme-court-strikes-down-states-stay-at-home-order.html

Were the virus able to vote its not hard to divine what box it would check.

 

[brianmanahan]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/14/wisconsin-supreme-court-strikes-down-states-stay-at-home-order.html

they had a similar sort of order in 1918, with the exception that work was still generally open: https://www.wisconsinhistory.org/Records/Article/CS2759

Amid rising infection rates and death tolls, Dr. Harper took the unprecedented step on October 10, 1918 of ordering all public institutions in Wisconsin closed. This included all schools, theaters, saloons, churches, and places of public amusement statewide - virtually every public venue other than factories, offices, and workplaces. In no other state was such a comprehensive order issued, and it stayed in effect until the epidemic burned itself out in late December.

it resulted in them having one of the lowest death tolls of all the states, 2.91 deaths/1000 people instead of the US average of 4.39 deaths/1000 people.

states are probably about to open up anyway, so at this point the ruling might not make a big difference in cases. though it will prevent wisconsin from using the same restriction in a future pandemic.

 

[Roger Wilco]

WHO warns it could take up to 5 years before the coronavirus pandemic is under control

 

[K1052]

Promising indications from the macaque trial using the Oxford vaccine:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1260901478279065601

 

[Scarpozzi]

I'm sort of pessimistic highly effective vaccine will be developed this year or even next year. So I'm thinking about maybe buying compact RV I can tow with my truck and traveling across America and camping in RV. I figure maybe I can do that for the next 2 years and hope for a vaccine or treatment. But I've never done RV camping. I don't know if it will be huge hassle, or if I will like it. The compact RVs are only $15-20k new so it's very tempting.

Gas prices are low right now, so it's a great time to get 5mpg pulling a trailer. Personally though, I'd feel safer just picking a location and staying safe by avoiding crowds. I totally changed grocery stores when this stuff started. I avoid the busier one and have switched to the grocery store that's virtually empty all the time nearby.

Larger RVs will have holding tanks of water, possibly generators, etc... The problem with RV-ing is that, for you to have running water or power, you really need to plug in at a Campsite. The cost involved there is about $10-50/night. RVing isn't as cheap as it used to be. I wouldn't feel safe parking for free in Walmart parking lots these days...COVID zombies spawn there.

 

[IronWing]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/14/wisconsin-supreme-court-strikes-down-states-stay-at-home-order.html

Keep in mind that the Wisconsin Supreme Court is rabidly partisan. While the ruling may be sound, the hyperbole used by the court is just that.

 

[K1052]

Keep in mind that the Wisconsin Supreme Court is rabidly partisan. While the ruling may be sound, the hyperbole used by the court is just that.

Seeing pics/vids of inside Wisconsin bars open where people are "socially distancing" themselves by standing close together, drinking, eating, and talking loudly in each others faces.

This is more or less the same situation led to the the expanded outbreak in Tokyo and the recent cluster in South Korea.

 

[Ajay]

Promising indications from the macaque trial using the Oxford vaccine:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1260901478279065601

In rhesus macaques. I'll feel a lot more optimistic if we can get these results in Phase1 human trials.

Edit: double quote...

 

[KMFJD]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1260759421048643584

Well i'll be darned, who'da thunk that would happen

 

[Scarpozzi]

I understand why you'd want to keep the plans, but I'd probably bag the trip, especially if you can get some reimbursement on the cancellation.

Back in February, before everything totally blew up, we had planned a trip to the UK for July. I did have the foresight to buy an any-reason cancellation insurance policy as the coronavirus situation started to worsen. So now, I sit on those plans, which are likely to be cancelled. At least I'll get some money back (insurance covers 75% for "any reason cancellation"; and I think the flight, through Delta, has become fully refundable)

We kept our Spring Break plans and flew halfway around the world in March...made it home safe, but there was a stark contrast on mainland US flights between when we left and when we got back. One flight only had 25 people on it....737 sized plane. The long-haul flights were more booked. AIrlines have changed their game though and are cancelling those flights to consolidate. Less offerings, mean more full flights, mean more risk. I keep thinking though.....if X% of the millions of people population has the virus and you're on an aircraft with 150-350 people, what's your real risk? Now that things have blown up, it's seemingly greater than it was a few months ago. Especially since those still travelling, probably never stopped.

Travelling by car in the South is relatively safe because we control our spaces. It's different than being in a major city and being subjected to public transportation or air travel. I only have $900 in my trip and can cancel to rebook this Fall, but don't know if things will really be any better. I feel like we know more now about the risk and our guard is definitely up. I can't guarantee our guard (collectively) will be as high after a few months. We're just going to keep distance and stay away from others as much as possible. I might even purposefully show up late so I can pickup my keys in the drop box at night and don't have to talk to the front desk lady.

 

[K1052]

In rhesus macaques. I'll feel a lot more optimistic if we can get these results in Phase1 human trials.

Initial human safety and efficacy info from Phase 1 expected in June, AFAIK.

 

[mopardude87]

I'm reminded of this:

Oh this guy was so damn funny, this was maybe one of my favorite videos for a while. Yeah this is a classic. Poor Warren.

 

[K1052]

Early results from large Mayo Clinic trial on convalescent plasma finds the treatment safe. No antibody enhanced infection. Bodes well for the forthcoming antibody drugs, hyperimmune globulin treatment, and vaccines.

Almost 15% mortality raises efficacy questions but looks like lots of people with very critical conditions were included. Once you're getting into stuff like multiple organ failure antibody therapy probably not as useful. You want to get to people before they progress.

Results: The incidence of all serious adverse events (SAEs) in the first four hours after transfusion was <1%, including mortality rate (0.3%). Of the 36 reported SAEs, there were 25 reported incidences of related SAEs, including mortality (n=4), transfusion-associated circulatory overload (TACO; n=7), transfusion-related acute lung injury (TRALI; n=11), and severe allergic transfusion reactions (n=3). However, only 2 (of 36) SAEs were judged as definitely related to the convalescent plasma transfusion by the treating physician. The seven-day mortality rate was 14.9%. Conclusion: Given the deadly nature of COVID-19 and the large population of critically-ill patients included in these analyses, the mortality rate does not appear excessive. These early indicators suggest that transfusion of convalescent plasma is safe in hospitalized patients with COVID-19.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.12.20099879v1

 

[Kaido]

I'm sort of pessimistic highly effective vaccine will be developed this year or even next year. So I'm thinking about maybe buying compact RV I can tow with my truck and traveling across America and camping in RV. I figure maybe I can do that for the next 2 years and hope for a vaccine or treatment. But I've never done RV camping. I don't know if it will be huge hassle, or if I will like it. The compact RVs are only $15-20k new so it's very tempting.

If you're buying new, check out RUV's - more compact. My buddy is retiring early & is looking at one of those, it's pretty insane:

Thor Vegas RUV Class A Motorhome

The Vegas RUV Class A by Thor Motor Coach provides all of the amenities that make traveling so great in a compact, functional and fun way.

www.thormotorcoach.com

Get an Instant Pot & a trucker/RV GPS and you're good to go!!