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NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
18,949
2,282
126
Wow, I've never heard of anyone doing it out years ahead of time, how does that all work? Do you save a lot & kind of lock in a package deal or something?
I can maybe see it for some exotic vacation like really remote and cool safari or climbing some remote mountain. Or Antarctica excursion or something that requires major logistic and planning. But freaking cookie cutter resort at coastal beach? :D That's loco.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
25,378
1,122
126
Wow, I've never heard of anyone doing it out years ahead of time, how does that all work? Do you save a lot & kind of lock in a package deal or something?
Floating week timeshare. I have like 6 months of dates I can book between Spring and Fall dates. Of course, with kids in school, we're limited to Spring/Fall break, but the last week of May or First week of June are also part of the floating weeks. I book those weeks far out so we can actually use them. The cost of a 3BR unit for a week is just at $900. Compared to hotel costs, if we forgo use for the year and cancel...it wouldn't be the end of the world. I'm just thinking we can stay away from other people fairly easily. We aren't flying, we aren't eating in restaurants....I'm planning on carrying our luggage up the stairs and skipping the elevator, even.

My concern is that some idiots are claiming there's no risk and not taking precautions. All it takes is a few of those folks to ruin it for the rest of us. I'm going to clean the high touch areas of the room prior to us unpacking with Lysol wipes…. The room isn't serviced by housekeeping except prior to arrival/after departure...so we should be able to sanitize the inside of the room and make a safe space.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,579
10,551
136
Didn't you say you thought you had the virus already? Did you get tested?
Turns out it was most likely the flu, even though I got a flu shot for this year (not as effective for the b strain this time around turns out). We both took the Abbot Labs antibody test offered by Quest and it was negatives.

If I was already toting antibodies my opinion might change but I would just as soon never get this thing given the lack of knowledge about long term effects.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,916
1,362
126
Do foods go up in your neck of the wood? Per this article, very much everything is higher now -


Around here, eggs are back to normal ($1/dozen large), same for chicken ($1/lb for legs and thighs). Others are still higher (especially beef and pork).
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
23,788
1,594
126
Do foods go up in your neck of the wood? Per this article, very much everything is higher now -


Eggs are back to normal here ($1/dozen large), same for chicken ($1/lb for legs and thighs). Others are still higher (especially beef and pork).
Yeah, my grocery bill went up 40%, easily. Sure, I have to buy food for lunch now, but I noticed that some items costs 10% more than they did before.
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
22,213
23,312
136
Reopening seems to come with challenges I don't think we, as a country, are well equipped yet or organized enough to handle well



yup, seeing this starting in other places that thought they had it under control

 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
8,610
3,378
136
My BIL (PhD Epidemiologist) sent me this blog post - pretty useful stuff and well sourced: The Risks - Know Them - Avoid Them. Hopefully, many of us can avoid these potential risk areas. Workspaces are going to be a real problem.

Aerosolization is must worse than initially presented (say a month ago). Current social distancing practices are going to fail in a number of important settings as we 're-open'.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
23,788
1,594
126
I was at Walmart two days ago, the number of mask-wearers has dropped precipitously (even among employees :oops:)
At Aldi, 90%+ people were wearing masks.
I saw that Uber is requiring passengers to wear masks now. I can't wait for the inevitable "Drunken Florida man shoots Uber driver over mask dispute" type headlines that's going to generate over the next few weeks.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,579
10,551
136
Around here, eggs are back to normal ($1/dozen large), same for chicken ($1/lb for legs and thighs). Others are still higher (especially beef and pork).
Chicken production didn't generally suffer from the same plant outbreaks as pork and beef due to, apparently, the process being highly automated.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,579
10,551
136
My BIL (PhD Epidemiologist) sent me this blog post - pretty useful stuff and well sourced: The Risks - Know Them - Avoid Them. Hopefully, many of us can avoid these potential risk areas. Workspaces are going to be a real problem.

Aerosolization is must worse than initially presented (say a month ago). Current social distancing practices are going to fail in a number of important settings as we 're-open'.
True aerosols are unlikely to be produced outside of medical procedures. Droplet emission appears to be, as the post points out, the chief culprit. Talking, singing, exertion, etc all promote much more droplet emission than simply breathing. People may go back to the office but face to face discussions are going to be one of the things that are strictly limited. Some companies might almost entirely ban them.

This of course also speaks to the likely effectiveness of masks as source control. Cutting the viral output of a given person makes it less likely another will be infected, even if the reduction is merely partial.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
78,804
11,765
126
New York City has had 58 days without a pedestrian fatality, which is a record ever since they started tracking such data in 1983.
This is assumed to be mostly the work of their quarantine.

Also, they have several sick kitty's:
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
8,610
3,378
136
True aerosols are unlikely to be produced outside of medical procedures. Droplet emission appears to be, as the post points out, the chief culprit. Talking, singing, exertion, etc all promote much more droplet emission than simply breathing. People may go back to the office but face to face discussions are going to be one of the things that are strictly limited. Some companies might almost entirely ban them.

This of course also speaks to the likely effectiveness of masks as source control. Cutting the viral output of a given person makes it less likely another will be infected, even if the reduction is merely partial.
But just breathing and talking are what I'm talking about with aerosols - there are no droplets there; just small quantities of virus in water vapor. I'm not sure why the Dr. Bromage calls them droplets, could be a matter of terminology (with me likely be wrong).

Better ventilation, reduced office staff size. People with persistent sneezing and coughing at work should be tazed and then sent home :p. Lots of PPE, particularly masks as you mention (but sneezing and coughing still blast out the sides of the masks). Droplet spread is the worst (larger viral loads), but even small viral load outputs per minute add up over the course of hours without sufficient ventilation. Going out to eat at a nice restaurant with a few friends is going to be a bad scene (90-120 minutes of eating and drinking, with no masks obviously); since there will be many other people doing the same in a fairly small space. This bums me out quite a bit, since it's my favorite way to relax in a social environment. Eh, better than being hospitalized or dead.

I probably had the flu like you did this past February despite getting the flu shot. It was resolving fine and then I developed bronchitis (so glad I have asthma). After that experience I sure as hell don't want to get COVID.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
25,378
1,122
126
Yeah, my grocery bill went up 40%, easily. Sure, I have to buy food for lunch now, but I noticed that some items costs 10% more than they did before.
My grocery bills have gone up, but mainly because I've tripled my beer and wine purchases while grocery shopping. I've also been buying a lot more junkfood, which typically costs a premium.
 
Nov 8, 2012
19,715
4,432
136
lol the people on this forum....

I would honestly love to see the responses from hard-liner "STAY AT HOME!" folks if come July a new pandemic starts up again.

JUST STAY AT HOME! Economies be damned! I know the food bank is out of resources, money, and food - but just stay home!
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
8,610
3,378
136
So, checking one of that blog post's sources, I found an included YT video showing 'micro-droplets' with sizes of around 10 micrometers. I would have thought that counted as an aerosol, but apparently not.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
51,151
3,742
126
lol the people on this forum....

I would honestly love to see the responses from hard-liner "STAY AT HOME!" folks if come July a new pandemic starts up again.

JUST STAY AT HOME! Economies be damned! I know the food bank is out of resources, money, and food - but just stay home!
Are you referring to our current pandemic that hasn't stopped and won't be stopped by the end of June?
 

Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
8,610
3,378
136
lol the people on this forum....

I would honestly love to see the responses from hard-liner "STAY AT HOME!" folks if come July a new pandemic starts up again.

JUST STAY AT HOME! Economies be damned! I know the food bank is out of resources, money, and food - but just stay home!
There are steps that can be taken, but we are not there yet. We are not going to be doing enough surveillance testing till around August or so and contact tracing is just ramping up, and varies from state to state. So what do you propose, that we be careful, or just accept that around a million people are going to die if we aren't?
 
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Ajay

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2001
8,610
3,378
136
Just to drive the point home a bit more. We probably need 100M mask a day in the US. We need 100,000s of foggers and UV-C disinfectant machines to clean contact surfaces clean overnight in office buildings, planes and subways. If we are at war, then let's act like it, use the DPA and get this stuff into mass production. Also, where or the government PSAs on TV and social media pushing the use of proper safety measures? Let's wake up.
 

manly

Diamond Member
Jan 25, 2000
8,834
435
126
Are you referring to our current pandemic that hasn't stopped and won't be stopped by the end of June?
The guy is an absolute kook, as has been demonstrated throughout this thread.
Logically, if one was indeed concerned about new outbreaks in two months, they would understand why it's imperative to accept short term economic pain in exchange for a full-force government effort to conduct world-class testing, contact tracing and disease isolation.

Even if you conceded that prolonging the economic disaster is no longer tenable (as libertarians seem to believe), you'd want jurisdictions to reopen slowly and carefully so that you wouldn't have to be forced to go back into lockdown mode. Quitting the fight as Pres. Trump has done, and imploring states to throw their doors open is absolutely the wrong approach.

But this is all noise, he's the same guy who's said FYGM to those who can't work from home; and that a disease that's only 5 times as deadly as seasonal flu isn't serious enough for the resultant economic damage.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,579
10,551
136
Going out to eat at a nice restaurant with a few friends is going to be a bad scene (90-120 minutes of eating and drinking, with no masks obviously); since there will be many other people doing the same in a fairly small space. This bums me out quite a bit, since it's my favorite way to relax in a social environment. Eh, better than being hospitalized or dead.
If US cities want their restaurants to live they should let them take over the streets and move dining outside where it can be reasonably distanced and the probability of transmission is way less.
 
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CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,189
845
126
Many of the antibody tests were junk. The FDA went too far in allowing unverified lateral flow tests on the market. The PCR tests we needed (still need more of) are a different supply chain.
Agreed.

It's funny how it's usually the same few guys banging the "blame China" and/or "USA is best in class in Covid-19 testing" drums. Reality is that the common PCR test was developed and published by Germans in late January, and the CDC chose to make a more accurate test for the U.S. that ultimately squandered all of February.
What's funny is how, from the start, I've been saying exactly what you are saying here and yet you act like I was saying the opposite and disagree.

What I did was force people here to acknowledge that US testing had improved when post after post after post was being made with the presumption that testing was as bad as it was in early/mid March. Someone had to say it.
 
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Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
25,378
1,122
126
There are steps that can be taken, but we are not there yet. We are not going to be doing enough surveillance testing till around August or so and contact tracing is just ramping up, and varies from state to state. So what do you propose, that we be careful, or just accept that around a million people are going to die if we aren't?
This is why I just asked about who's taking vacation time... I'm going to the beach because I can shelter in place there almost as easily as here... With the exception of swimming pool area and passing people on the boardwalk, I can distance pretty easily.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,579
10,551
136
Just to drive the point home a bit more. We probably need 100M mask a day in the US. We need 100,000s of foggers and UV-C disinfectant machines to clean contact surfaces clean overnight in office buildings, planes and subways. If we are at war, then let's act like it, use the DPA and get this stuff into mass production. Also, where or the government PSAs on TV and social media pushing the use of proper safety measures? Let's wake up.
The argument from the administration is that they don't want to force companies to do things. Really the DPA is far more versatile in that the government can provide loans, grants, and simply buy vast quantities of things it needs which guarantees the vendors don't get shafted if the threat disappears. I would have said fuck it long ago and gone through the whole supply chain on everything we need and just pay for a fuckton of it on guarantee.

Oh we're short of swabs? Ok, here is the entire capital cost of your expansion for our order plus 125% list price of all units delivered. We need them ASAP. Repeat with everything else.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
30,166
3,564
126
True aerosols are unlikely to be produced outside of medical procedures. Droplet emission appears to be, as the post points out, the chief culprit. Talking, singing, exertion, etc all promote much more droplet emission than simply breathing. People may go back to the office but face to face discussions are going to be one of the things that are strictly limited. Some companies might almost entirely ban them.

This of course also speaks to the likely effectiveness of masks as source control. Cutting the viral output of a given person makes it less likely another will be infected, even if the reduction is merely partial.
There's a reason the great majority of people you see (yes, outside!) in video of Asian populaces are wearing masks. I'm self isolating, the only people I've seen for days are an occasional pedestrian, maybe bike rider or jogger and I hope to see masks, I'd say most times I don't. Cases/day have been fairly stable, but the last 3 days around 1.5x "normal."

Here's a question:

Theoretically it takes only one virion to infect you if it finds its way to an Ace II receptor in your lung, say. I saw an expert on TV two nights ago who said infection danger starts at 1000 virus particles, went on to say that one cough can expell 200,000,000 particles.

Why 1000 particles? Why not 100? Why not 10? A stray particle in your house... doesn't it have the potential to kill you???
 

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