NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,469
3,467
126
Do you live in the United States? If you do, I will start working on raising money for your campaign tomorrow. You need to be representing us somewhere. If you want, you can start out in Congress or the Senate. You say more concise, wise things daily than the rest of us do combined. I'm not joking, although I don't have a lot of experience fundraising, so it may take it some time to get rolling. Oh, and no, you don't get to decline; tag, you're it!
Haha thanks. Unfortunately, the almighty dollar is king & most of our political system is run through lobbyists & back-door agreements. I feel like Obama went in with the same idea - he seemed like a legit dude who wanted to do a good job, and by the time he got to the top, (1) his hands were tied, and (2) the system has so many constraints in general due the complexity & inefficiency of it, not to mention the corruption of it, that making effective changes was incredibly difficult. For example, healthcare reform is a noble idea, but we all know what the end results of Obamacare actually was - not quite what was envisioned!

Another issue is scale vs. human nature. A president can't handle every situation individually because we need a team of thousands & tens of thousands & hundreds of thousands of people to make things operate, and corruption is in human nature. Even in modern times, we run into issues like Bridgegate:


And this nonsense:


Plus, you still have to deal with a variety of inputs. The KKK & Neo Nazis are alive & well in America. And our current political system isn't focused on solving problems, it's focused on Team A vs. Team B & who can make a "win" for their side in every given situation, rather than a win for the American people. The focus is entirely wrong. Not to mention how many regular citizens choose to focus on heated, emotionally-driven arguing over having sane, rational discussions. Just go look in our very own P&N forums...very few threads get by without turning into a flamewar.

The system is big & complex & has been embedded for decades, and people generally operate off knee-jerk emotional decision-making instead of well-thought-out logical decision-making, so taking a mature approach sounds good, but unfortunately isn't effective IRL. Except maybe in South Korea where they all got on the same page & rolled out the plan downstream so that everyone helped everyone else. But they're kind of the exception lol.

Instant Pot for President 2020
 
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Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,394
126
I went to Kroger and at least two persons with full size face masks (covering the whole head). Like the ones for the military against chemical attack. Seriously not kidding. How would they breath in those things.
I didn't say we were the worst or among the worst. I said we're 3rd rate. That's better than 7th rate. Or 8th rate. Obviously, being put on unemployment and losing your health care insurance makes you an unfortunate citizen of a country that doesn't much care to insure your health. Even fucking Medicare doesn't give shit if your teeth rot. These things make US 3rd rate. Great place to be if you've got big bucks. The social safety nets in the USA suck. Face it. 3rd rate.
Ok, name a 3rd rate country beside the US per your opinion.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,778
4,758
136
Haha thanks. Unfortunately, the almighty dollar is king & most of our political system is run through lobbyists & back-door agreements. I feel like Obama went in with the same idea - he seemed like a legit dude who wanted to do a good job, and by the time he got to the top, (1) his hands were tied, and (2) the system has so many constraints in general due the complexity & inefficiency of it, not to mention the corruption of it, that making effective changes was incredibly difficult. For example, healthcare reform is a noble idea, but we all know what the end results of Obamacare actually was - not quite what was envisioned!

Another issue is scale vs. human nature. A president can't handle every situation individually because we need a team of thousands & tens of thousands & hundreds of thousands of people to make things operate, and corruption is in human nature. Even in modern times, we run into issues like Bridgegate:


And this nonsense:


Plus, you still have to deal with a variety of inputs. The KKK & Neo Nazis are alive & well in America. And our current political system isn't focused on solving problems, it's focused on Team A vs. Team B & who can make a "win" for their side in every given situation, rather than a win for the American people. The focus is entirely wrong. Not to mention how many regular citizens choose to focus on heated, emotionally-driven arguing over having sane, rational discussions. Just go look in our very own P&N forums...very few threads get by without turning into a flamewar.

The system is big & complex & has been embedded for decades, and people generally operate off knee-jerk emotional decision-making instead of well-thought-out logical decision-making, so taking a mature approach sounds good, but unfortunately isn't effective IRL. Except maybe in South Korea where they all got on the same page & rolled out the plan downstream so that everyone helped everyone else. But they're kind of the exception lol.

Instant Pot for President 2020
Pretty much - but I'm echo one other thing:

I think the majority of our problems can be solved if we just somehow eliminate the 2 party system. I know, it won't happen... But I think it's the ultimate crux of our problems.


X Party is FOR ABORTION. Therefore Y MUST be against it.

At the end of the day, I think we (as Americans together) want the same thing. We want to prosper. We want people to be successful and have wealth. The difference is just the schematics of how to get there. Democrats want subsidized tax programs to help the lower class. Republicans want jobs and opportunities for those in the lower class instead of glass-ceiling based programs dependent upon one's income being low enough. The end result is still the same though: We want people to be successful.

Then you have lobbying groups that grapple-hold of the respective 2 parties to try and steer them and further and further divide.

I think having a 3rd (or 4th or 5th really) party would really help because instead of "It's either THIS WAY or THAT WAY" mentality, you would have to form more than just 1 opinion in order to get anything passed.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
33,191
5,091
126
Ok, name a 3rd rate country beside the US per your opinion.
I wasn't happy with my choice of words there, TBH... I struggled with it and just left it as that. Didn't want to say 3rd world, which is something else entirely. I was trying to convey the idea that we are negligent, that we have "dropped the ball," that we've failed to not just take the lead but to keep up with the pace of other advanced nations on this planet by failing to guarantee adequate health care for its citizens. I hope that is clear.
 
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Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
46,469
3,467
126
Pretty much - but I'm echo one other thing:

I think the majority of our problems can be solved if we just somehow eliminate the 2 party system. I know, it won't happen... But I think it's the ultimate crux of our problems.


X Party is FOR ABORTION. Therefore Y MUST be against it.

At the end of the day, I think we (as Americans together) want the same thing. We want to prosper. We want people to be successful and have wealth. The difference is just the schematics of how to get there. Democrats want subsidized tax programs to help the lower class. Republicans want jobs and opportunities for those in the lower class instead of glass-ceiling based programs dependent upon one's income being low enough. The end result is still the same though: We want people to be successful.

Then you have lobbying groups that grapple-hold of the respective 2 parties to try and steer them and further and further divide.

I think having a 3rd (or 4th or 5th really) party would really help because instead of "It's either THIS WAY or THAT WAY" mentality, you would have to form more than just 1 opinion in order to get anything passed.
That's really it - there's heavy stereotyping & group-think for each party. It's mostly driven by the media, because getting people incensed means viewership on their shows & websites, which means dollars in the bank from advertisements. The other group it's driven by are emotionally-charged people who can't have a mature, rational conversation where they differ in opinion from other people without getting mad & blowing up. It's the your camp vs. my camp mentality. I'm right, you're wrong, here's what I believe, here's what YOU believe. There's not much room for personal opinions or crossing lines if that's your viewpoint!

I was given the same advice when I got married: it's not the two of us against each other, it's the two of us against the problem. A simple truism, but it helped me shift my perspective from going into attack-mode into problem-solving mode.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
33,191
5,091
126
I've only ever seen that where pieces of shit go.... Walmart... One by one at the cashier saying to price match this....this.....this...this.....this....this... one by one.

I've never seen price-matching at any normal grocery stores.
The poor man's farthing is worth more than all the gold on Africa's shore. - William Blake

There are a lot of people around here that have been having a super hard time with money. Homeless people, scroungers, shopping cart people, folks diving into trash cans. It's been like this for years. There are all manner of people struggling in our economy and now with this pandemic that's going to escalate. We may have FDR type programs going forward, that wouldn't surprise me for a second.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
33,191
5,091
126
I now know why 3M brand masks are so coveted and considered gold standard.
I've bought maybe 4 different kinds of N95's, for the wildfires around here in 2017 and 2018. My favorites are the 3M's, but 1/2 of them have valves and that's a no-no for a pandemic. They exhale shedding virus, being the reason.

My favorite 3M that I have are the no-valve 9210. They have a weakness. Not the seal, for me that seems perfect. The weakness is the rubber strapping. That can and will break. I have ordered elastic banding material from New York and plan to staple that onto my 9210s.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
10,308
6,958
146
I went to Kroger and at least two persons with full size face masks (covering the whole head). Like the ones for the military against chemical attack. Seriously not kidding. How would they breath in those things.
I'd be surprised if they were worth a shit, they use charcoal filters and I'm not sure if those are even effective against viral agents. In addition, they're probably surplus and the filter's probably expired. It'd keep people away from you though I suppose.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
I went to Sprouts and Publix yesterday to buy grocery items on weekly sale, and lot more people are wearing masks. I would say around 60-70% of the people had on some sort of masks, scarfs, or bandana. Which was awesome to see because when I first started wearing masks in the grocery stores couple weeks ago, I was often the only person with the mask on. People stared at me back then. Not anymore.

But I need to stop putting myself at risk and going to the grocery stores when I don't need to. My sister told me yesterday I was selfish for putting my family at risk. And she's right. I have more food and supplies than like 10 typical families put together. I don't need anymore food. But damn, somehow I felt like I had to buy 2 more rib roasts when I already bought 2 last week and have tons more in the freezer. Just to save like $80. I'm a former Fatwallet and Slickdeals addict so I do the dumbest thing to save the tiniest bit of money. I think having N95 mask is adding to my stupidity. I feel like I'm protected when I'm wearing it and shopping in stores. Stupid things I do to save a dollar while wasting hundreds or thousands on other stupid stuff. I'm a moron.
Speaking of Slickdeals, they had a front-page deal on a gallon of "Froggy's Simply Sanitizer WHO formulation" last week and I was about to order it for $37.99 when I decided to read the comments. There I saw people complaining about the smell and consistency, describing it almost exactly how I would describe the smell of the gallon of "Denatured Alcohol" (methylated spirits) I got from Lowe's last year. That stuff was WAAAAAY cheaper too! I recall it being under $10 for a gallon-sized can. The more I read the more sure I was that this was simply denatured Ethyl alcohol where they add acetone and other stuff to make it non-palatable... except the Froggy's people also added a little glycerin as a moisturizer. I decided not to buy it.

Well, it's been over a week now and they updated the site in response to some PayPal charge-backs. Sure enough, they mention the smell and clarify that it uses Denatured Ethyl Alcohol:
...though they promise they'll change the formula when isopropyl becomes available again.

Though I've seen some warnings about using denatured alcohol because you don't know what they added to denature it (no standard between various producers), the can of "Jasco" brand that I got says it's clean burning for alcohol stoves and Bunsen burners and can be used as an ammonia-free glass cleaner (cleans streak-residue/deposit free). If it can be used for stoves I assume there is some consideration for food-grade safety. For whatever reason the Jasco-brand Denatured Alcohol I bought does not show up on Lowe's website even for in-store pickup even though that's where I found it, and it's always been that way (probably due to regulations on the sale of grain alcohol). I think I spent less than $10, which is a quarter the price of the Froggy's stuff.

If you can put up with the smell, just put it in a spray bottle and follow up with hand lotion after your hands dry. No reason to give them four times as much just for a little added glycerin. It almost got me but that's one front page Slickdeals post that definitely is NOT a slick deal.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
19,155
7,915
136
we have "dropped the ball," that we've failed to not just take the lead but to keep up with the pace of other advanced nations on this planet by failing to guarantee adequate health care for its citizens.
Covid-19 is showing how plenty of so-called "advanced nations" have failed to guarantee adequate health care for its citizens. Of course it was evident beforehand, but by now it should be more clear. Furthermore:


You can split hairs about how money is spent in the United States or who winds up with said money, but you can't argue that we've somehow failed to address the issue of medical care! We spend more than any other nation per capita. Our problem is that we spend too much money on too many procedures, too many scans, and too many drugs. Our lifestyles are (in general) quite unhealthy. Our over-reliance on insurance - both private AND public - drives up costs by reducing the number of people that pay out of pocket on the spot for medical care.

I have no problem with emergency spending to tackle Covid-19 so long as we are committed to paying back those who have lent us money to undertake this effort. Sadly, I fear we will be making nothing but interest payments for a long time . . . or until our government collapses under debt.
 

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,539
959
126
It looks like we are going to catch Spain in the reported number of deaths by tomorrow and take the lead over Italy by the weekend...

at the least the good new for NY is that the number of people being admitted to hospitals has decreased the past few days..
 

killster1

Banned
Mar 15, 2007
6,208
473
126
You are 1000% wrong about that. You have to remember how stupid people are. I mean people will wait in line at Costco for 45 minutes to save $3 in gas. Many people don't get that time = money.
Lol there is no such thing as 45 min Costco gas line would be into the street before it hit 20 mins. You save 3$ compared to cheap quality gas. Costco has decent quality gas.. some people's time is worth more than others. Depending on the day I'll wait 5 mins to save 20 cents a gallon times 16 gallons.
 

Sgt. York

Senior member
Mar 27, 2016
798
208
116
Lol there is no such thing as 45 min Costco gas line would be into the street before it hit 20 mins. You save 3$ compared to cheap quality gas. Costco has decent quality gas.. some people's time is worth more than others. Depending on the day I'll wait 5 mins to save 20 cents a gallon times 16 gallons.
You must be poor. I wouldn't stand in line 5 minutes to save $3.20.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
51,744
4,200
126
Lol there is no such thing as 45 min Costco gas line would be into the street before it hit 20 mins. You save 3$ compared to cheap quality gas. Costco has decent quality gas.. some people's time is worth more than others. Depending on the day I'll wait 5 mins to save 20 cents a gallon times 16 gallons.
I mean when lines are like 10 cars deep, and it takes like 3-5 minutes to fill the tank, the math is pretty simple.
 

mopardude87

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2018
3,348
1,575
96
Prob paid a extortion price but thought it was good insurance to pick up a 2 pair of kn95 masks, one for me IF i find myself going to a packed store like Walmart in May and one for my friend who finds herself in dr offices and stuff often due to her COPD. Wearing them in a car like i seen people do is stupid, practice social distancing and the mask seriously should only be worn in crowds of more then 10. I mean i live in a spot last known for 230 cases and well i keep my distance. Not wearing mine till a dire situation really calls for it. Heck i was practicing social distancing BEFORE it became a thing....i already knew all the facts weren't out.

Anyone got any experience with KN95 mask and at home washing procedures? I hear hot water is good obviously but would bleach or something be to harsh on the 4 layers? It' s still sealed so not gonna open it till a good time arises. Hopefully i never find myself using it but when i do i wanna know the facts. With luck maybe i could use this thing 3 times once per month? When i shop its a one time good for month situation.

Edit: walmart just allows people in now again, no more lines like i saw a few days ago, the mask WILL be a good idea then.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
62,642
9,771
126
twitter.com
The main reason for dropping the ball is capitalism. The constant need to cut costs and cut corners everywhere. Every time someone says "we should do X in case Y happens" the answer is always "We can't, that costs money". Then a pandemic like this happens and guess what, there is no spare equipment to be found and no easy way to obtain it because nobody wanted to have it in first place because they cared more about money.

This goes for lot of things, for example in IT. Anyone who has worked IT knows how hard it is to get spare parts to have on hand so that if something fails you're not scrambling.
 

Artorias

Golden Member
Feb 8, 2014
1,764
996
136
Another tracker:

Anyone find the German stat really interesting? They have around the same amount of cases as France, yet only 20% of there deaths.

World class healthcare, or superior genetics?
 

Sgt. York

Senior member
Mar 27, 2016
798
208
116
Some countries count every death where covina is present as a covina death even though there are underlying complications. Some don't.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,372
858
126
Anyone find the German stat really interesting? They have around the same amount of cases as France, yet only 20% of there deaths.

World class healthcare, or superior genetics?
The average age of the infected in Germany is almost 20 years younger than France, Spain, and Italy.

Germany also has far less smokers than those European nations.

The health, fitness, and obesity rates between France and Germany are about the same.

So it goes back to less old people getting Covid in Germany. And less smokers.

That and Germany has a unique system where they have people doing daily house calls on the sick. They admit Covid patients to the hospitals far earlier than other countries. They feel earlier intervention helps. If the person starts their decline outside of the hospital they are more likely to die than if they are already in the hospital when the decline starts to happen.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
62,642
9,771
126
twitter.com
Man I was afraid we would start seeing stories like this. For someone introvert like me I don't find this self isolation that hard, but also as someone that has been through depression and anxiety before I totally can feel for those who cant cope with this. It's going to start being a very tough time for lot of people I think.

 
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Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,999
1,394
126
Latest news. Boss just told everyone that furlough "could" happen/possible if this virus thing is dragging out longer. Upper management is discussing about it. We will know for sure "soon".

First time unemployment filing ever for me if this furlough would happen. I wonder if you are covered with healthcare if you are furloughed.

Well, at least I have enough of savings money to cover all my expenses for a long while.
 
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