NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

[echo4747]

Trump does not want to advertise the breadth and scope of the pandemic any more than he has to. Therefore he figures he has no stake in unveiling China's coverup with respect to their death toll, he'd prefer to keep that a matter of speculation.

Interesting, I had a hunch about cloth not being that effective but I would have figured it would at least provide a degree of protection. I guess the spaces are just too big. To make the paper for N95 is actually a complex process as the spaces need to be super tiny. Like microscopic levels. Even those ones are too big for the virus, but they are small enough that the virus still often gets lodged instead of making it through.

Wonder if there are some readily available materials that would work though. What about normal office grade paper? Trick is making something that has a proper seal around your face though. Can paper be molded with some kind of process? If you could press a N95 style mask from sheets of regular paper, all you need is some machine shops to make the molds and you can have people make lot of them at home. You can probably use a piece of electrical wire for the nose part to shape it.

I'm quite sure paper isn't the filter media used in N95 masks, It would degrade
when wet and is likely to tear. I'm pretty sure napped polypropylene fabric is used as the filter media

 

[CZroe]

You were talking about testing.

Don't know why you are trying to hard to defend the USA's epidemic response. I think your statement there erroneous. I won't argue the point, but seems to me that several countries response (overall, and obviously testing had a great deal to do with it) makes the USA's look byzantine in comparison... say Taiwan's, SK, Singapore, Hong Kong even. Probably Iceland too.

The reason I mentioned Iceland and Luxembourg is because they have tested almost everyone. That is because they have much smaller populations, not because the US is derelict in testing.

I was responding to this because you expressed the sentiment that inaccurstrly assumed we somehow lag the world in testing and that it's Trump's fault:

Trump thinks denial is the best strategy for any problem. There's no convincing him that testing is in the best interests of the country ... Yes, I blame him.

Just a friendly reminder that things have gotten better than when we were all frustrated by the lack of testing weeks ago and a small correction about what/who is to blame for the earlier difficulties.

We need more testing. We're getting more testing. We have a very large population compared to Iceland and Luxembourg. This will take time.

I never claimed testing hasn't improved in the USA. And I don't know why you insist on being Trump's PR man here. I do put at least some blame on him for the early testing failure, you keep saying he should not be blamed for that at all.

I voted against Trump. I'm not his PR man. I'm just trying to get you and the thread back on-track.

You keep saying this is unavoidably political with a non-sequitur example blaming Trump for a perceived lack of testing. We've already addressed the perceived lack of testing, so tell me:
How is Trump to blame for the initial tests being faulty? How is he to blame for the Feds rejecting WHO tests? If he is not, then how was that political conclusion "unavoidable?"

Look, he could have done the sane thing and appointed a covid-19 epidemic czar. He dropped the ball on that, eventually appointing his stooge VP to do that. And he still hasn't seen the light... he never will.

I agree, but it's another non-sequitur to say that cause the test issues or that a czar would have prevented these agencies from rejecting the foreign tests. If anything, they've been somewhat vindicated for rejecting them after many other countries got faulty tests and had to return them. We made faulty tests too but we caught it and there isn't anything a czar could've done to change that.

Yeah, testing is improving and as you say largely because the insane restrictions concerning licensing and forcing all tests to be submitted to the far-off (literally) CDC facilities were eventually rescinded. Thus we have a multifarious private sector driven testing scenario that has to be regarded as fractured by nature of the separateness of private sector entities. Yes, there's a ton of cooperation going on, but, say, 35 different entities (probably actually triple digits) all working in their own settings using different self-generated technologies, can't compete with a more organized approach that would have developed under a covid-19 czar.

The more organized approach is the one that requires sending them to the CDC and waiting. Fast-tracking alternative tests and treatments is something the administration is pushing for, but they weren't the ones who imposed the existing restrictions and, as we've already seen with bad tests, the restrictions and regulations exist for a reason. Despite the less-organized approach, opening the floodgates to alternate testing does seem prudent as long as we also continue ramping up our validated testing.

Since he's been pushing for that from the start as a solution for meeting testing demands, it seems odd to fault him for the lack of alternatives.

We're doing great? Better than any other country on testing? Maybe that argument can be made in terms of number of tests or some other metric, but in terms of controlling the scope of the epidemic in the USA, it's not been successful. Trump claimed that anybody can be tested here a few weeks ago. He stood there grandstanding and waving his two hands like he always does and saying "it's beautiful." That was complete bullshit and I was thoroughly disgusted. Can I be tested now? Maybe, if I pay $2000 or something... ain't capitalism grand?

Look at that sentence, CZRoe. There's a psychic disconnect there, or you can say you didn't use the grammar you intended. We blew it THEN. What we're doing now is not THEN. I mean WTF were you saying?

I have no idea what you are trying to say. The only countries beating the US by any metric with testing can only do so because they have significantly smaller populations. If I had symptoms of contact with a suspected case I could call up any of the local hospitals that do testing, tell them my symptoms, and go line up in my car for drive through testing. That's how we are testing more than any other country. It isn't as unobtainable as you might think.

The thing is, I don't have symptoms and wouldn't want to add to the case load by making them up. Even if I am positive they are going to tell me the same thing: Isolate at home unless the symptoms get worse.

 

[Muse]

a little more info( about masks, decontamination, etc.) some may hopefully find helpful/interesting :

Who is this guy and what's his/their channel? I'm curious to see some of their other stuff. Thanks for posting that video.

Interesting, I had a hunch about cloth not being that effective but I would have figured it would at least provide a degree of protection. I guess the spaces are just too big. To make the paper for N95 is actually a complex process as the spaces need to be super tiny. Like microscopic levels. Even those ones are too big for the virus, but they are small enough that the virus still often gets lodged instead of making it through.

Wonder if there are some readily available materials that would work though. What about normal office grade paper? Trick is making something that has a proper seal around your face though. Can paper be molded with some kind of process? If you could press a N95 style mask from sheets of regular paper, all you need is some machine shops to make the molds and you can have people make lot of them at home. You can probably use a piece of electrical wire for the nose part to shape it.

You are not going to be able to breathe through office copy paper.

 

[CZroe]

Who is this guy and what's his/their channel? I'm curious to see some of their other stuff. Thanks for posting that video.

I'm finishing his video on thermal epoxy right now.

 

[Muse]

If I had symptoms of contact with a suspected case I could call up any of the local hospitals that do testing, tell them my symptoms, and go line up in my car for drive through testing. That's how we are testing more than any other country. It isn't as unobtainable as you might think.

The thing is, I don't have symptoms and wouldn't want to add to the case load by making them up. Even if I am positive they are going to tell me the same thing: Isolate at home unless the symptoms get worse.

If I have symptoms where I am, I can't get in a line of cars and expect to be tested. Not based on what I've been hearing. People were being rejected last week if they didn't have a temperature of at least 101.4. That's for openers, and they probably needed a referral as well. AFAIK, I can't get tested right now if I don't fork over $2000 to a private company (the figure I heard on TV IIRC).

Edit: I'm not symptomatic yet. I'm hoping for widespread effective fast antibody testing. Then you can know if it's safe to go outside and etc.

 

[Muse]

I'm finishing his video on thermal epoxy right now.

Who is he and what's the channel he refers to for subscription. I couldn't see anything in that ~20 minute video that identified those things. Linkage?

 

[echo4747]

Who is this guy and what's his/their channel? I'm curious to see some of their other stuff. Thanks for posting that video.

here you go: https://www.youtube.com/user/TechIngredients/videos

 

[killster1]

That image is wrong. Don't take advice from some pharmaceutical company based in Bangalore, and/or random images posted on Facebook. Jesus Christ.

Many hospitals are providing instructions for citizens to make and donate cloth face masks. They aren't perfect, but they are better than nothing, though you still need to follow social distancing guidelines.

What Are the Best Materials and Fabric for Making DIY Masks? – Smart Air

smartairfilters.com

Contains results of a study from Cambridge University

View attachment 19164

Seems like a dish towel face mask, double-layered, with a 1 (or less) micron filter sandwiched between the layers would be OK. Replace the filter when you wash the mask, or simply make enough so they can be single-use. Just use cut-up squares of your basic high-filtration furnace filter.

isnt the virus 0.125 micron? not 1 micron

Can HEPA Air Purifiers Capture the Coronavirus?

HEPA purifiers will capture the coronavirus if it is airborne, and some research now suggests it is.

thewirecutter.com

Trump does not want to advertise the breadth and scope of the pandemic any more than he has to. Therefore he figures he has no stake in unveiling China's coverup with respect to their death toll, he'd prefer to keep that a matter of speculation.

you think trump knows or that we have spies that know the truth? really?

My thought is they probably did force things back to normal. I bet you have lot of sick people working in factories right now. At very least those with mild symptoms. They probably don't really care about stopping the spread. Those that die, die, those that recover, keep working. At least that's my hunch.

im sure they have screening processes for factories everywhere that do not allow sick workers to infect others.

Interesting, I had a hunch about cloth not being that effective but I would have figured it would at least provide a degree of protection. I guess the spaces are just too big. To make the paper for N95 is actually a complex process as the spaces need to be super tiny. Like microscopic levels. Even those ones are too big for the virus, but they are small enough that the virus still often gets lodged instead of making it through.

Wonder if there are some readily available materials that would work though. What about normal office grade paper? Trick is making something that has a proper seal around your face though. Can paper be molded with some kind of process? If you could press a N95 style mask from sheets of regular paper, all you need is some machine shops to make the molds and you can have people make lot of them at home. You can probably use a piece of electrical wire for the nose part to shape it.

are you serious ever? you are going to breath through paper? use a hepa vacuum cleaner bag cut it up and use one piece per mask, the trick is breathing through the mask and not around it. really "office grade paper" ?? zomg / eyeroll / sigh no wonder the virus spreads so easy, common sense is rare.

 

[ponyo]

For homemade mask, I would think mask made out of cotton t-shirt would be the easiest to make. I would fold it to make it two layer and put something like HVAC filter in between the t-shirt layers or even coffee filter. Both are cheap and readily available. Or I bet something like female menstrual pad could work as filter. You could sew and make a pouch. Then you could insert and replace the filter on the mask each time you washed the mask.

 

[killster1]

I never claimed testing hasn't improved in the USA. And I don't know why you insist on being Trump's PR man here. I do put at least some blame on him for the early testing failure, you keep saying he should not be blamed for that at all.

Look, he could have done the sane thing and appointed a covid-19 epidemic czar. He dropped the ball on that, eventually appointing his stooge VP to do that. And he still hasn't seen the light... he never will.

Yeah, testing is improving and as you say largely because the insane restrictions concerning licensing and forcing all tests to be submitted to the far-off (literally) CDC facilities were eventually rescinded. Thus we have a multifarious private sector driven testing scenario that has to be regarded as fractured by nature of the separateness of private sector entities. Yes, there's a ton of cooperation going on, but, say, 35 different entities (probably actually triple digits) all working in their own settings using different self-generated technologies, can't compete with a more organized approach that would have developed under a covid-19 czar.

We're doing great? Better than any other country on testing? Maybe that argument can be made in terms of number of tests or some other metric, but in terms of controlling the scope of the epidemic in the USA, it's not been successful. Trump claimed that anybody can be tested here a few weeks ago. He stood there grandstanding and waving his two hands like he always does and saying "it's beautiful." That was complete bullshit and I was thoroughly disgusted. Can I be tested now? Maybe, if I pay $2000 or something... ain't capitalism grand?

Look at that sentence, @CZroe. There's a psychic disconnect there, or you can say you didn't use the grammar you intended. We blew it THEN. What we're doing now is not THEN. I mean WTF were you saying?

how do you know how many infections any other country really has? south Korea only has 50 something million people, usa 325 million plus all the undocumented ones. in Taiwan and SK they have been tracking peoples cellphones and notifying those in close contact with virus infected people, in Taiwan they are also giving 10,000$ fines if you are infected and leave your house. same with other countries i assume. here it seems like nothing is happening like that because we have so many freedoms and rights. so unless you are psychic you dont really know whats going on. also the testing failure was from broken promises made to the administration and failed batches of tests. sure they could have let private sectors do the screening since the beginning but they surely had a reason for wanting to track it all. everything could always be done better, was it his fault sure somewhat, but was he in charge of performing the tests or manufacturing them? nope he just was the person asking for it to be done and like all bosses you are only as good as your team.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I'm quite sure paper isn't the filter media used in N95 masks, It would degrade
when wet and is likely to tear. I'm pretty sure napped polypropylene fabric is used as the filter media

Yeah not sure exactly what it is, I was just thinking paper as it may have similar properties but it's something experts would need to actually confirm. I think the masks do use a paper based product but it's probably impregnated with something to make it more moisture resistant. Funny enough 3M uses pulp from BC so if Trump actually cuts supply to Canada we could probably play games too...

 

[snoopy7548]

You are not going to be able to breathe through office copy paper.

You can if you poke breathing holes in it.

 

[Red Squirrel]

You can if you poke breathing holes in it.

View attachment 19173

Wonder if CNC excimer laser machine would work? Plastic sheets might be better media at that point. Quick google search tells me corona viruses are around 120nm and an excimer laser is around 126 at the smallest, so yeah not quite small enough of a hole but close. Either way getting into such precise lasers is no longer in DIY territory.

It seems right now there aren't really too many guaranteed solutions for DIY masks. Best protection is to just stay home I think.

 

[killster1]

You can if you poke breathing holes in it.

View attachment 19173

of course you are joking but he thinks your serious! so funny, i think he has me on ignore

 

[purbeast0]

With the US death rate doubling every 3 days, do you guys think we're going to see 48k deaths by Easter? Or that we will be seeing nearly 200k deaths by the following weekend?

I mean that is the trend right now but those numbers seem unreal.

 

[allisolm]

My county in FL is all about social distancing. From their Facebook page:

 

[manly]

You keep saying this is unavoidably political with a non-sequitur example blaming Trump for a perceived lack of testing. We've already addressed the perceived lack of testing, so tell me:
How is Trump to blame for the initial tests being faulty? How is he to blame for the Feds rejecting WHO tests? If he is not, then how was that political conclusion "unavoidable?"

I agree, but it's another non-sequitur to say that cause the test issues or that a czar would have prevented these agencies from rejecting the foreign tests. If anything, they've been somewhat vindicated for rejecting them after many other countries got faulty tests and had to return them. We made faulty tests too but we caught it and there isn't anything a czar could've done to change that.

IMHO Wreckem this morning accurately accessed the state of coronavirus testing in the U.S. It's a mixed bag, and the raw numbers are somewhat dominated by testing in the NYC metro area (and a few other states). IIRC the daily rate of testing is somewhat plateauing as well.

Trump cannot be directly blamed for the failures at the CDC. But it's too simple to agree with his assessment that he takes no responsibility for testing (or response) failures. Who knows what path the U.S. would have taken if a number of different actions had not been taken:
* NSC disbanding the command structure for pandemic response
* Ending a USAID $200M pandemic early-warning program in September 2019, that was working with 60 foreign labs including in China
* Belatedly appointing lackluster czars named Mike Pence and Jared Kushner to lead dueling Covid-19 task forces.
* Firing WH Chief of Staff in the midst of a developing public health crisis
* Repeatedly downplaying the potential for a serious health crisis
* Lying about the availability of testing

Obviously the "what if?" game can be played forever and in many different directions, but POTUS does not get much of a pass considering he leads the executive branch of the federal government. Not being personally responsible for a sprawling government apparatus still doesn't absolve a litany of errors.

I realize you're speaking specifically to the testing issue, but I'm addressing a somewhat broader picture.

 

[rh71]

View attachment 19149

Where are the rising death toll numbers from back then? Were they lumped in with regular flu deaths then?

 

[Muse]

...everything could always be done better, was it his fault sure somewhat, but was he in charge of performing the tests or manufacturing them? nope he just was the person asking for it to be done and like all bosses you are only as good as your team.

Yeah, and he liked to say he only hired the best. But talk is cheap and when he ran for POTUS he was way beyond his ability to ascertain what that is. That's why he should have appointed a covid czar, but he was clueless and so we sailed without a rudder into this mega-storm.

 

[FelixDeCat]

My county in FL is all about social distancing. From their Facebook page:

Most stores I go into have X's on the floor near the checkout showing where people are to stand. Not sure its gator distance, but more like large iguana eating a cucumber distance.

 

[Brainonska511]

isnt the virus 0.125 micron? not 1 micron

The question of this virus's size is purely academic and has little bearing on the efficacy of filters and other PPE. This type of virus needs a layer of hydration in order to remain stable, which makes it much larger than it's own size. If your PPE can keep out respiratory droplets, it's going to do a pretty good job of inhibiting viral transmission.

 

[sdifox]

Most stores I go into have X's on the floor near the checkout showing where people are to stand. Not sure its gator distance, but more like large iguana eating a cucumber distance.

It's two meters here in Canada.

 

[local]

Surprised nobody is buying into the UV light sanitizers... granted, a lot of them seem pricey.

They are selling like hotcakes to any company that has a positive case scare. Put them in the A/C units and away you go.

 

[brianmanahan]

it looks like seattle and california got enough of a start on the virus, but new york city was too late

 

[manly]

it looks like seattle and california got enough of a start on the virus, but new york city was too late

L.A. County (and the surrounding SoCal) is FAR from out of the woods.