Nokia with WP7 is out, just not in U.S.

[finbarqs]

It's almost like the case with Apple not wanting to "adopt" the standard of Flash. WinMoPho does not want to adopt the standard of the grid of icons. People are use to it already, and cannot except change. Part of it is WinMoPho's design team's problem. They needed to knock it out of the park, with a conventional "awesome-ness" design. I personally like it, but maybe if they rounded the tiles? or make it translucent?

 

[Red Storm]

It's almost like the case with Apple not wanting to "adopt" the standard of Flash. WinMoPho does not want to adopt the standard of the grid of icons. People are use to it already, and cannot except change. Part of it is WinMoPho's design team's problem. They needed to knock it out of the park, with a conventional "awesome-ness" design. I personally like it, but maybe if they rounded the tiles? or make it translucent?

I don't want grid icons either, that's a step back from live tiles. I just wanted more freedom in customizing the homescreen to the way I like.

 

[darkewaffle]

I don't understand the obsession with phone hardware. The screen I can understand somewhat, but to be fair, pixel density on phones is already extremely good both absolutely and relatively, and packing much more resolution into these small screens is getting extremely close (and sometimes surpassing) the PPI a human eye can even distinguish. (300 PPI is generally considered about the human limit, though not absolutely)

I honestly can barely imagine how I would use two cores on a phone though. I guess for some people it's different as they see a phone as a media consumption device; for me though, WP7 exemplifies what's important to me in a phone, get in/get done/get out.

I think as far as the expectations of the hardware go, people need to remember that how a typical Anand user looks at a phone is often not the same as a how average Joe does. I think the 710 and the 800 are very good market entrants, it gives WP7 something to sell to both the mainstream and the more advanced user. A 'superphone' is not going to get WP7 any marketshare because of cost barriers and people's unwillingness to splurge so heavily on something 'unknown'. But if the 710 can get out to the carriers and possibly drop to $99-$149 with a contract, it's going to be a pretty compelling package.

 

[Deeko]

Did anyone find the Lumia 800 underwhelming. 3.7" 854x480 Pentile AMOLED screen, 1.4ghz Snapdragon, 16gb storage and apparently no microSD or front facing camera. Basically it sounds like a great competitor to the Galaxy S or iPhone 4 but very outclassed against the Galaxy Nexus and iPhone 4s.

I'm curious - why does everyone seem so shocked and appalled when the specs for new Windows Phones come out? The hardware requirements (CPU, screen resolution) is set & locked by Microsoft, long before the phones are announced, its not a surprise when the phone's use it. FFC I can understand, that's a curious omission, but everything else is par for the course.

Plus, as has been said plenty of times already, Windows Phone is not dying for dual core. My Venue Pro, with its first gen snapdragon, runs faster and smoother than any dual core phone I've ever used.

do you think microsoft will abandon this platform?

Doubtful.

it seems it always gets negative press, but yet I think it's pretty slick and awesome. Even on Anandtech, (or dailytech) any news of WP7 is always met with negative criticism from the comments!

Really? The press I see is almost overwhelmingly positive.

 

[Deeko]

The interface is much better than before all the way around. Have you tried getting WPCentral to review it yet?

Thanks. Yea I'm a fan of the new UI as well. Based on ad usage it seems people like the new routine player too, because its getting a lot of use. Haven't thought about trying to get WPCentral to review it, that's a good idea...do they have a method where I formally request it, or would I just email them?

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I'm curious - why does everyone seem so shocked and appalled when the specs for new Windows Phones come out? The hardware requirements (CPU, screen resolution) is set & locked by Microsoft, long before the phones are announced, its not a surprise when the phone's use it. FFC I can understand, that's a curious omission, but everything else is par for the course.

Plus, as has been said plenty of times already, Windows Phone is not dying for dual core. My Venue Pro, with its first gen snapdragon, runs faster and smoother than any dual core phone I've ever used.

iOS wasn't in need of a dual core yet the iPhone 4s still has one as well as a top of the line gpu. I'll agree WP7 is smooth but it is most definitely slower than a Galaxy S2 or iPhone 4s.

If Microsoft really wanted to compete they should have ditched Nokia and worked closely with Samsung to bring a flagship WP7 phone to market with a 720p or qHD Super AMOLED screen and a 1.2ghz+ Exynos SoC.

I think as far as the expectations of the hardware go, people need to remember that how a typical Anand user looks at a phone is often not the same as a how average Joe does. I think the 710 and the 800 are very good market entrants, it gives WP7 something to sell to both the mainstream and the more advanced user. A 'superphone' is not going to get WP7 any marketshare because of cost barriers and people's unwillingness to splurge so heavily on something 'unknown'. But if the 710 can get out to the carriers and possibly drop to $99-$149 with a contract, it's going to be a pretty compelling package.

If the 710 is $150 it will be a total flop. For less than that you can get a Atrix 2, iPhone 4, Lg Thrill, or Samsung Infuse, all of which are much higher end devices. The 710 should be free on contract or at least under $50 for it to have any chance. I don't think more than $150 is even justified for the 800 when $199 gets you an iPhone 4s or Galaxy S2.

 

[Deeko]

iOS wasn't in need of a dual core yet the iPhone 4s still has one as well as a top of the line gpu. I'll agree WP7 is smooth but it is most definitely slower than a Galaxy S2 or iPhone 4s.

Slower at some things, like games, yea - but the UI certainly isn't. I believe BGR was quoted earlier in this thread as saying they felt the Lumia 800's UI was as fast or faster than the 4s.

 

[Deeko]

If Microsoft really wanted to compete they should have ditched Nokia and worked closely with Samsung to bring a flagship WP7 phone to market with a 720p or qHD Super AMOLED screen and a 1.2ghz+ Exynos SoC.

I would like to see higher resolutions, but it will be difficult, the 800x480 thing is very entrenched into the SDK so I'm not sure how that will work. Regarding the CPU, I have a hard time seeing them supporting Exynos. They are trying to keep the platform open to more manufacturers, hence the focus on Qualcomm.

Going with Nokia is smart because Nokia will go "all in" with the platform. Right now its obvious where Samsung's priorities are, and I would say you have a better chance to pull them over by selling millions of Nokia WP7 phones than you will with a few meetings.

 

[abaez]

iOS wasn't in need of a dual core yet the iPhone 4s still has one as well as a top of the line gpu. I'll agree WP7 is smooth but it is most definitely slower than a Galaxy S2 or iPhone 4s.

"Most definitely" slow how? Every single video of the 800 I've seen shows the navigation and general usage as very smooth and quick.

If the 710 is $150 it will be a total flop. For less than that you can get a Atrix 2, iPhone 4, Lg Thrill, or Samsung Infuse, all of which are much higher end devices. The 710 should be free on contract or at least under $50 for it to have any chance. I don't think more than $150 is even justified for the 800 when $199 gets you an iPhone 4s or Galaxy S2.

The 710 is $350 OFF contract. It will easily be free on contract. Even without price I think it'll flop anyway. It just looks cheap and the reactions to it were basically meh.

I would love an 800 simply because I don't care about apps that much, and I want a smaller form factor phone with a good camera. Plus I have used an E71 before and its build quality and feel was excellent.

 

[pantsaregood]

There is no such thing as "WM7."
There is no such thing as "WinMoPho."
There is no such thing as "WinMo7."

Can we all try to grasp this?

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I would like to see higher resolutions, but it will be difficult, the 800x480 thing is very entrenched into the SDK so I'm not sure how that will work. Regarding the CPU, I have a hard time seeing them supporting Exynos. They are trying to keep the platform open to more manufacturers, hence the focus on Qualcomm.

Going with Nokia is smart because Nokia will go "all in" with the platform. Right now its obvious where Samsung's priorities are, and I would say you have a better chance to pull them over by selling millions of Nokia WP7 phones than you will with a few meetings.

That was fairly short sighted of Microsoft if they are stuck with 800x480.

I know MS is pushing Qualcomm and that's why I said they would support some better SoC's if they were really serious about competing. Their current strategy has been a complete failure so it's obvious they need to try something new.

 

[darkewaffle]

I wish there were some survey figures on CPU utilization in dual core phones; I swear it can't possibly be high. It sells phones for the same reason Monster cable and Bose sound sell, the vast majority of people simply don't know any better, but it sounds good.

And if the 710 is free with contract I think that'd be pretty intriguing to the right audience, I guess I underestimated how much phones truly are discounted though. But not everyone wants a sleek, businessy looking phone. I think there's a place for more colorful/cheaper phones at the low-mid end, especially for kids/teens and people who go shopping off pricetag only.

 

[Sheep]

Did anyone find the Lumia 800 underwhelming. 3.7" 854x480 Pentile AMOLED screen, 1.4ghz Snapdragon, 16gb storage and apparently no microSD or front facing camera. Basically it sounds like a great competitor to the Galaxy S or iPhone 4 but very outclassed against the Galaxy Nexus and iPhone 4s.

This was my initial reaction too. However, I see WHY Microsoft and Nokia are taking this angle instead of releasing an uber high-end handset. They're likely assuming that Apple and Android have such dominance and brand recognition in that market that they'd be VERY unlikely to be able to penetrate it right away given WP7's lack of name recognition. To get WP7 out there and in front of consumers, they're targeting dumbphone owners looking to make the switch to a smartphone. Once those users get hooked into the WP7 ecosystem, hopefully they'll become purchasers of future high-end WP7 phones. It's definitely a long-haul strategy which I think is appropriate given the cut-throat competition--it would be nearly impossible for ANY competitor to just jump in and make a big impact.

This is not entirely different from what HP tried with webOS, but their phone hardware was garbage and HP had no clue what it wanted to do as a company. Hopefully the Microsoft and Nokia alliance doesn't meet the same fate.

 

[TheStu]

There is no such thing as "WM7."
There is no such thing as "WinMoPho."
There is no such thing as "WinMo7."

Can we all try to grasp this?

WinMoPho is funny which is why I say it. I started calling it that back when it was still Windows Phone Series 7 Phone. People call it WinMo7 (Which I agree is wrong) because microsoft was stupid and call this entirely new device by a very similar name to their previous line of devices. The last version was WinMo6.5, and now it is WinPho7, it is reasonably understandable. And it is even a peeve of mine when people don't call things by their correct name, but WinMoPho is funny, so there.

 

[s44]

I wish there were some survey figures on CPU utilization in dual core phones; I swear it can't possibly be high. It sells phones for the same reason Monster cable and Bose sound sell, the vast majority of people simply don't know any better, but it sounds good.

LOL. So I assume you're posting this on a Pentium 4 with GMA950?

Just because you won't need the second core some large percentage of your use time doesn't mean it's not important.

 

[finbarqs]

lol it's like saying "win, mofo!"

 

[Deeko]

That was fairly short sighted of Microsoft if they are stuck with 800x480.

I know MS is pushing Qualcomm and that's why I said they would support some better SoC's if they were really serious about competing. Their current strategy has been a complete failure so it's obvious they need to try something new.

I'm sure they'll figure something out with the resolution - I can't imagine they'll stick with 800x480 forever. There are more powerful chipsets out there that have a broader reach than Samsung's in-house SoC so we'll likely see that in the future.

I would hardly call it a "complete failure" at this point, though. People on this forum tend to have a very Ricky Bobby-esque "first or last" mentality, and it doesn't always work. I'm sure they'd like to have sold more, but these things take time to really gain traction - neither the iPhone or Android had vaulted itself to #1 in its first year, either. What they do have is a ton of solid press, hardware partners, and a rapidly growing ecosystem that developers like using - its about the future, not just right now, and I'd say they're well positioned for success down the line.

 

[s44]

I heard that Mango has drivers for other chips including Exynos. Not sure if that's a myth though.

 

[foghorn67]

There is no such thing as "WM7."
There is no such thing as "WinMoPho."
There is no such thing as "WinMo7."

Can we all try to grasp this?

Don't effing care.

 

[crisscross]

Apart from Nokia Drive is there a compelling reason to go with Nokia over the Samsung Focus which is available for around $250 unlocked? It seems to me that the next generation of Nokia phones/Apollo is when we will actually see some worthwhile upgrades.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

I would hardly call it a "complete failure" at this point, though. People on this forum tend to have a very Ricky Bobby-esque "first or last" mentality, and it doesn't always work. I'm sure they'd like to have sold more, but these things take time to really gain traction - neither the iPhone or Android had vaulted itself to #1 in its first year, either. What they do have is a ton of solid press, hardware partners, and a rapidly growing ecosystem that developers like using - its about the future, not just right now, and I'd say they're well positioned for success down the line.

The thing is though they are actually last. WP7 has been out for close to one year and it's marketshare is still little more than a rounding error. Obviosly it takes more than a year to become number one but they haven't even made much progress towards being number 3.

Honestly WP7 is starting to remind me of Linux on the desktop, it is technically sound yet has next to no marketshare and it's fans constatly insist that next year will be the year it takes over the market.

 

[abaez]

Better camera and build quality essentially.

 

[Deeko]

The thing is though they are actually last. WP7 has been out for close to one year and it's marketshare is still little more than a rounding error. Obviosly it takes more than a year to become number one but they haven't even made much progress towards being number 3.

Honestly WP7 is starting to remind me of Linux on the desktop, it is technically sound yet has next to no marketshare and it's fans constatly insist that next year will be the year it takes over the market.

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/android_market_share_doubles_will_overtake_palm_soon.php

After its first 14 months, Android was only at 5.2% of the market - and that was after it started getting the "Droid boost". Before the Droid, as they finished their first year (which is where we are with WP7) they were at a paltry 2.5%. It wasn't until the effects of the Droid and Galaxy S that Android really started to take over. Point being, a slow first year really doesn't mean much. Year two is when both Android and the iPhone took off.

 

[quest55720]

If Microsoft really wanted to compete they should have ditched Nokia and worked closely with Samsung to bring a flagship WP7 phone to market with a 720p or qHD Super AMOLED screen and a 1.2ghz+ Exynos SoC.

No if MS wants to compete they concentrate on battery life. Get the snapdragon on 28nm with a high efficiency screen 4 inch screen. Tweak the OS for better battery life and advertise the hell out of it. Battery life is the biggest concern of most smart phone users. WP7 is not android that needs a battery sucking top of the line dual core SoC to run smooth. My deam smart phone gets me 2 days of battery life with moderate usage. Be nice not to have to charge my phone every night. Granted I am lucky I know some who have to charge their phones some during the day to get by.

 

[WelshBloke]

The biggest negative criticism (as always) comes from those that don't use it. They see the large tiles and the black bar along the right side of the home screen as a HUGE problem that would be solved by WinMoPho just copying everyone else's aproach (let's grid some icons, yea!). They see cut off and truncated words and assume that it is sloppy, and not a clear design choice. They have never used it, they don't understand it, therefore they hate it. I don't think that it is for everyone, and I can get that people would call it ugly, aesthetic is a personal thing.

So whats the app launcher like?