Nokia with WP7 is out, just not in U.S.

[Puddle Jumper]

No if MS wants to compete they concentrate on battery life. Get the snapdragon on 28nm with a high efficiency screen 4 inch screen. Tweak the OS for better battery life and advertise the hell out of it. Battery life is the biggest concern of most smart phone users. WP7 is not android that needs a battery sucking top of the line dual core SoC to run smooth. My deam smart phone gets me 2 days of battery life with moderate usage. Be nice not to have to charge my phone every night. Granted I am lucky I know some who have to charge their phones some during the day to get by.

Exynos at least appears to be pretty energy efficient, the Galaxy S2 has better than average battery life for a high end Android phone.

Microsoft doesn't seem to care about efficiency though, 65nm snapdragons were the default WP& Soc long after 45nm versions were available.

 

[WelshBloke]

...If Microsoft really wanted to compete they should have ditched Nokia and worked closely with Samsung to bring a flagship WP7 phone to market with a 720p or qHD Super AMOLED screen and a 1.2ghz+ Exynos SoC.

WTF? I'd love Nokia to make an Android phone. The Lunia 800 is absolutely gorgeous.

 

[quest55720]

Exynos at least appears to be pretty energy efficient, the Galaxy S2 has better than average battery life for a high end Android phone.

Microsoft doesn't seem to care about efficiency though, 65nm snapdragons were the default WP& Soc long after 45nm versions were available.

I agree they don't but that is the best way for them to compete. Bring out a smart phone that is silky smooth with the best battery life on the market and profit.

 

[TheStu]

So whats the app launcher like?

The home page has the tiles, from there you launch your most used apps that you have pinned. Some apps have simple status badges, others have detailed information. The Calendar tile takes up 2 spaces (horizontally) and shows your next appointment. The Pictures tiles (2 spaces) cycles through the images on your phone. Other third party tiles also have fancy things as well. Outside of that, it is just a simple, searchable list that (I think) will break down by first letter once you hit a certain number of apps.

 

[s44]

No if MS wants to compete they concentrate on battery life. Get the snapdragon on 28nm with a high efficiency screen 4 inch screen. Tweak the OS for better battery life and advertise the hell out of it. Battery life is the biggest concern of most smart phone users. WP7 is not android that needs a battery sucking top of the line dual core SoC to run smooth.

Not a single thing you wrote makes sense.

(1) There are no 28/32nm SoCs.
(2) Android -- in fact, probably Samsung -- will have them first.
(3) RIM has the best battery life, and yet most smartphone users have chosen Android.
(4) Dual-core doesn't hurt battery life; it helps.

 

[WelshBloke]

The home page has the tiles, from there you launch your most used apps that you have pinned. Some apps have simple status badges, others have detailed information. The Calendar tile takes up 2 spaces (horizontally) and shows your next appointment. The Pictures tiles (2 spaces) cycles through the images on your phone. Other third party tiles also have fancy things as well. Outside of that, it is just a simple, searchable list that (I think) will break down by first letter once you hit a certain number of apps.

See that sound fine if you regularly use 5 or so apps, but if your trying to manage 50 or so a long scrollable list sounds more like something out of WM6.5.

 

[quest55720]

Not a single thing you wrote makes sense.

(1) There are no 28/32nm SoCs.
(2) Android -- in fact, probably Samsung -- will have them first.
(3) RIM has the best battery life, and yet most smartphone users have chosen Android.
(4) Dual-core doesn't hurt battery life; it helps.

1 was a suggestion on how I would run things to make WP7 competitive.
2 Basically any new android phone needs to be dual core SoC so snapdragon would not matter to them.
3 find me the rim touch screen smart phone that out does the Iphone 4 in battery life.
4 You would fool me the Iphone 4s has shitty battery life. Hell here is a 80 page thread on the apple support forums of people complaining of battery life.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3391947?start=0&tstart=0

 

[Deeko]

See that sound fine if you regularly use 5 or so apps, but if your trying to manage 50 or so a long scrollable list sounds more like something out of WM6.5.

The app list (what you get when you swipe to the right) let's you either search for a specific app or jump straight to a letter in the alphabetical list, makes it quick to jump directly to a specific app no matter how many you have.

 

[darkewaffle]

LOL. So I assume you're posting this on a Pentium 4 with GMA950?

Just because you won't need the second core some large percentage of your use time doesn't mean it's not important.

...So if you don't use it most of the time, what does mean it's important? If I've got SLI but only play games that use one video card, what's important about the second card?

I've got a dual core at work because I've got Monarch and Excel and Opera and IE and Groupwise and various other things open the majority of the time (and because our boss is cheap ). I've got a quad core on my home PC because I've got games that actually use multiple cores and perform better because of it. I've got a single 5770 because it's cheaper, quieter, and appropriate for my games/resolution.

I need a dual core phone so I can... text? Watch youtube? Check email?

If I told you I wanted to build a computer where size, energy efficiency, and heat output were of paramount importance that only needed to instant message, web browse, maybe watch some youtube videos or play simple games, would I need a dual core? Personally I don't think so, but on the desktop you could get one anyway because the cost margin between a single core and dual core is so small and multicore technology is relatively mature.

On a phone, where the tech itself is only just over 6 months old and the software supporting it even younger, and the usage cases taking advantage of dual core being more 'niche' than they are on a desktop, I think it's just not necessary nor as advantageous for most users yet.

Actually has there been word if WP7 supports dual core yet? I imagine it could run on one but do we know if it would take advantage of threading to it yet?

 

[quest55720]

Support for dual core on WP7 won't happen till mid 2012 when Apollo update hits.

 

[WelshBloke]

The app list (what you get when you swipe to the right) let's you either search for a specific app or jump straight to a letter in the alphabetical list, makes it quick to jump directly to a specific app no matter how many you have.

I still thinks Android (and maybe Apple, i dont have enough experience of it to speak for it) has a better method.

You can search by name using the search button or browse by icon in the app launcher. TBH I dont know the exact name for a lot of my apps, particularly newly downloaded games, so scrolling down through a massive list till I see a new icon/name would be a bitch.

 

[WelshBloke]

...So if you don't use it most of the time, what does mean it's important? If I've got SLI but only play games that use one video card, what's important about the second card?

I've got a dual core at work because I've got Monarch and Excel and Opera and IE and Groupwise and various other things open the majority of the time (and because our boss is cheap ). I've got a quad core on my home PC because I've got games that actually use multiple cores and perform better because of it. I've got a single 5770 because it's cheaper, quieter, and appropriate for my games/resolution.

I need a dual core phone so I can... text? Watch youtube? Check email?

If I told you I wanted to build a computer where size, energy efficiency, and heat output were of paramount importance that only needed to instant message, web browse, maybe watch some youtube videos or play simple games, would I need a dual core? Personally I don't think so, but on the desktop you could get one anyway because the cost margin between a single core and dual core is so small and multicore technology is relatively mature.

On a phone, where the tech itself is only just over 6 months old and the software supporting it even younger, and the usage cases taking advantage of dual core being more 'niche' than they are on a desktop, I think it's just not necessary nor as advantageous for most users yet.

Actually has there been word if WP7 supports dual core yet? I imagine it could run on one but do we know if it would take advantage of threading to it yet?

If thats all you do why are you using a smartphone?

 

[s44]

I need a dual core phone so I can... text? Watch youtube? Check email?

Game and multitask, just as you do on your PC.

Open a half-dozen tabs, stream music, update feeds, compose an email and text, while shuffling in and out of a game... Many, many people do these at the same time. The first one alone will choke a single core on broadband.

And again, given that single-core presents no battery efficiency whatsoever, the reality is that dual-core on phones matured the day it was born, thanks to previous experience on desktop.

If WP7 is only selling to users who do the three things they could have done (one at a time) on a Blackberry, it isn't going very far. Fortunately, MS isn't that stupid... even if they're slow. They did finally implement some multitasking, after all...

 

[arod]

Game and multitask, just as you do on your PC.

Open a half-dozen tabs, stream music, update feeds, compose an email and text, while shuffling in and out of a game... Many, many people do these at the same time. The first one alone will choke a single core on broadband.

you can do all of that in wp7 now (atleast once all games/apps are mangofied) but I do all that stuff now on my focus. Instant resume to the exact spot you left off is just as good as real multitasking.... its just far more battery efficient.

 

[Red Storm]

you can do all of that in wp7 now (atleast once all games/apps are mangofied) but I do all that stuff now on my focus. Instant resume to the exact spot you left off is just as good as real multitasking.... its just far more battery efficient.

To me multitasking is all about how quickly you can switch from app to app. If it takes more than 3-4 button presses then it's too long. If takes more than a second or two, it's too long.

 

[Deeko]

To me multitasking is all about how quickly you can switch from app to app. If it takes more than 3-4 button presses then it's too long. If takes more than a second or two, it's too long.

1) Tap-and-hold back button.
2) Swipe left/right over screen shots of "running" apps
3) Tap the one you want to open.

 

[poofyhairguy]

you can do all of that in wp7 now (atleast once all games/apps are mangofied) but I do all that stuff now on my focus. Instant resume to the exact spot you left off is just as good as real multitasking.... its just far more battery efficient.

But what if I don't want the app to be where I left off? What if I want to use the gig of RAM and dual core to have stuff running or downloading in the backround? I do that daily now.

 

[finbarqs]

and... WebOS wins in Multitasking department... hands down. It's not my opinion, but fact. Everyone is trying "their" implementation of the card based multi-tasking system, when in fact palm did it right the first time.

 

[Deeko]

But what if I don't want the app to be where I left off? What if I want to use the gig of RAM and dual core to have stuff running or downloading in the backround? I do that daily now.

Mango supports background processing at the app developer's discrection. While the app itself goes into a "freeze" state when you exit it, the dev can have the app do long running tasks (like downloading files) in the background, or have regularly scheduled tasks run at, well, regularly scheduled times, or process audio in the background.

edit: If you want to, say, have your game keep playing after you quit the app, that's not an option....but I don't really know why you'd want to do that anyway.

 

[arod]

But what if I don't want the app to be where I left off? What if I want to use the gig of RAM and dual core to have stuff running or downloading in the backround? I do that daily now.

I'd rather have the exact same experience AND have my phone last hours longer on a charge.... keeping every app running in the background will eat away at battery life no matter how efficient the cpu is. And wp7 does allow some things to run in the background (the live tile update service, music playback, etc) but is all approved to not reduce battery life.

 

[WelshBloke]

and... WebOS wins in Multitasking department... hands down. It's not my opinion, but fact. Everyone is trying "their" implementation of the card based multi-tasking system, when in fact palm did it right the first time.

I'm not going to go into the details as I'm drunk but I'm fucking hating webOS at the moment. The sooner theres a stable CM9 rom the better.

 

[finbarqs]

lol I'm just talking about the Multi-tasking portion. That's all. I wanted a touchpad, but now that the "hype" has died, i dont' really care about getting one.

I'll say, been through my Android, my Palm, and now iOS with the 4s. WebOS was the easily the most intuitive OS i've used so far. Not the fastest, not the best hardware, but the OS was the most intuitive.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Mango supports background processing at the app developer's discrection. While the app itself goes into a "freeze" state when you exit it, the dev can have the app do long running tasks (like downloading files) in the background, or have regularly scheduled tasks run at, well, regularly scheduled times, or process audio in the background.

edit: If you want to, say, have your game keep playing after you quit the app, that's not an option....but I don't really know why you'd want to do that anyway.

Interesting. The only time I run a game in the background is when it is downloading content.

 

[Dominato3r]

I think once we get Windows 8, WP7 will really take off... provided Ballmer & Co. do a good job of marketing.

 

[Deeko]

Interesting. The only time I run a game in the background is when it is downloading content.

Right, which Mango is capable of doing.

Basically the route they're taking is to allow things to happen in the background, but only if the developer explicitely wants it to - this behavior, vs the opposite (things running all the time by default) allows you to have the same functionality, but helps with battery life, because its harder to "accidentally" leave something running.

Of course, this also puts the onus on the developer to add that functionality, as well.