News NoFap Founder Sues Neuroscientist who says No.

[Moonbeam]

Perhaps the reason we have moral beliefs that we codify in was to cause societal compliance is that we are animal evolved and do have all kinds of impulses, many of which, having great survival value for individuals, don't work so well with animals that developed cooperative strategies in parallel. Humans evolved out of a alpha male dominated social condition to a pare bonded one allowing males to work together as a team. All that can be destroyed by unfaithfulness and jealousy. It makes all the adaptive sense in the world that a society invent a higher authority and attribute to it the source and power to make laws that promote that fragile male cooperation. A cohesive society of equals can out-compete a society of fragmented equals, it seems to me, and one in which that moral concept remains in tact will thrive, if it itself doesn't fragment and fall back and lose the meaning of equality in a war in which men try to dominate women rather than treat them as co-partners and equals.

In shout, it seems to me that moral law is a reflection of who we are because it is who we have evolved to be with God as a reflection of the latter. Man seeks to become God and God seeks to bring man to Him. This, I think, is the meaning of 'created in his image'. We have the Buddha nature and the potential for that self realization, but language, so important in the transmission of knowledge, also created the notion of evil. Duality is comparison and comparison leads to negative self image and self hate.

 

[Atreus21]

No, what I said was that your earlier post was ignorant of the facts. The NoFap site has nothing to do with men controlling their impulses. Instead, it's about redirecting those men's lack of control into overt misogyny. Or are you not ignorant and that's the real reason why you admire them so much?

My post said that porn was destructive, not that nofap was good or admirable.

 

[woolfe9998]

My post said that porn was destructive, not that nofap was good or admirable.

Whatever the reality is about porn, whether it is "destructive" or not, there is no way to make it go away short violating the 1A. There is no social/cultural cure for it either. Religion does not inoculate. It appears to make people even hungrier for that forbidden fruit.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00224499.2017.1278736?journalCode=hjsr20

Our multivariate findings indicate that higher percentages of Evangelical Protestants, theists, and biblical literalists in a state predict higher frequencies of searching for porn, as do higher church attendance rates. Conversely, higher percentages of religiously unaffiliated persons in a state predict lower frequencies of searching for porn.

 

[WelshBloke]

I'm also trying to be humble enough to not assume that what may not make sense to me doesn't make sense to somebody else.

It's not a question of whether something makes sense, its that there is no physical trace of its existence. There is literally nothing to make sense of.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Well . . . people are worried about masturbation as an unnatural natural act. Of course, my blood-hound does it, and you ought to watch my cat in heat for a half-hour driving herself nuts. This may only overlap with the Far Right's view that anything that gets a jaundiced eye in the Bible is ba-bad, ba-bad-bad-bad.

Meanwhile, I'm going to pass on those testosterone supplements -- even if Willie can be reinvigorated, the rest of me might be worn out.

However. As someone said, everything in moderation.

We must always practice the discipline to refrain from masturbating on the internet more than once a day.

In this way, we can protect our beloved internet, and we can avoid having too much hair growing on our palms . . .

. . . And always be sure and spray sanitizer on your keyboard daily . . . . and keep a separate jar of Vaseline for personal use . . .

 

[woolfe9998]

Perhaps the reason we have moral beliefs that we codify in was to cause societal compliance is that we are animal evolved and do have all kinds of impulses, many of which, having great survival value for individuals, don't work so well with animals that developed cooperative strategies in parallel. Humans evolved out of a alpha male dominated social condition to a pare bonded one allowing males to work together as a team. All that can be destroyed by unfaithfulness and jealousy. It makes all the adaptive sense in the world that a society invent a higher authority and attribute to it the source and power to make laws that promote that fragile male cooperation. A cohesive society of equals can out-compete a society of fragmented equals, it seems to me, and one in which that moral concept remains in tact will thrive, if it itself doesn't fragment and fall back and lose the meaning of equality in a war in which men try to dominate women rather than treat them as co-partners and equals.

In shout, it seems to me that moral law is a reflection of who we are because it is who we have evolved to be with God as a reflection of the latter. Man seeks to become God and God seeks to bring man to Him. This, I think, is the meaning of 'created in his image'. We have the Buddha nature and the potential for that self realization, but language, so important in the transmission of knowledge, also created the notion of evil. Duality is comparison and comparison leads to negative self image and self hate.

Serious question: do you believe in "God" as a literal being which independently exists outside human consciousness, or are you using the idea of "God" as metaphor here?

 

[sandorski]

... Life only comes from life, and it appears that no one knows why.

Why? It's more of a How question. We have some understanding of that, but far from a perfect understanding of it.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I remember . . . . in an era when Joe Pyne held forth on Los Angeles television as the conservative Goldwater advocate, a play written by a very African-American avantgarde playwright named Leroi Jones, entitled "The Toilet". And Man oh Man! Pyne did his best to scorch Jones with ridicule and criticism when the latter was a guest on the show! Thank God, the following talk show was hosted by Louie Lomax!

Even at the tender age of 16, I fully appreciated the wit of certain script lines one might call "potty talk". I vaguely remember a scene where an old woman catches her son (?) masturbating, and she begins to yell at him for "wasting his seed".

Maybe that comprises the primitive history behind the taboo of slapping your baloney and strangling your lizard.

Thinking back to the Middle Ages, what DID Friar Tuck and the Abbot of Kingsbridge DO with themselves? Or did they lust after some hunchback's Esmeralda? If fulfillment of their lust was as difficult as it would seem, would they not practice a little Onanism, in temporary relief hoping for "that day"?

 

[Vic]

My post said that porn was destructive, not that nofap was good or admirable.

Porn is destructive and deadening and weak and degrading and we all know it. that men are making some effort to control their impulses is something women would rightly applaud in a sane world.

What efforts specifically are these men making to control their impulses that you feel aren't being rightfully applauded?

 

[Moonbeam]

Serious question: do you believe in "God" as a literal being which independently exists outside human consciousness, or are you using the idea of "God" as metaphor here?

My point of view is that I don't know and that it doesn't matter because either way if one is real so is the other. My experience with a conscious state that changed my worldview from one of misery to one of acceptance did not happen via Christianity but with the help of Zen. The sacred cows that I could not prove to be real, were of my childhood Christian training. I went, not by faith, but by doubt, not just in religion, but in everything. I had no idea at the time, but discovered that you can be filled in you empty your cup. It happens to you and I call it grace, not knowing what it is, but that it is not something you can make happen by ego. The words I would use, just words because they can't recreate experience, was that my search for truth was driven by ego and when I failed at that I died to any hope for my self.

 

[whm1974]

No, what I said was that your earlier post was ignorant of the facts. The NoFap site has nothing to do with men controlling their impulses. Instead, it's about redirecting those men's lack of control into overt misogyny. Or are you not ignorant and that's the real reason why you admire them so much?

Well said Vic. And you are right. After a brief look through that site pages I pretty much agree with you.

 

[Atreus21]

Whatever the reality is about porn, whether it is "destructive" or not, there is no way to make it go away short violating the 1A. There is no social/cultural cure for it either. Religion does not inoculate. It appears to make people even hungrier for that forbidden fruit.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00224499.2017.1278736?journalCode=hjsr20

Although I'm not convinced that obscenity qualifies as free speech, I dont disagree with anything else you said.

 

[sandorski]

Although I'm not convinced that obscenity qualifies as free speech, I dont disagree with anything else you said.

Viewing Sex as an Obscenity is an Obscenity.

 

[Atreus21]

Viewing Sex as an Obscenity is an Obscenity.

I dont view sex as an obscenity.

 

[sandorski]

I dont view sex as an obscenity.

OK, so where does the Obscenity lie in your statement?

 

[Moonbeam]

OK, so where does the Obscenity lie in your statement?

It's something you know when you see it.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I remember how Woody Allen's character in one of his comic movies was asked "Is sex dirty?" And he answered "Yes -- when you're doin' it right!"

Our problem in this society has long been one of obsession. I'm deeply suspicious that evangelicals -- including those who support Trump -- have an excessive obsession with sex and sexuality. This should probably be contrasted to the traditionally held understanding of the "Mediterranean attitude" about sex, which is much healthier.

What else would explain the religious Right's assault on the funerals of dead soldiers -- to protest ;homosexuality in general and gay rights more specifically? What else explains this cockamamie idea of "conversion therapy"? What would explain a woman's crusade to remove the Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary from a public school classroom, because her kid had found a definition in it for "oral sex"? Or the efforts of other stalwart citizens to remove a painting from an art gallery because it depicted a nude woman's breast?

Yet, they're perfectly happy that Trump dipped his wick in Stormy Daniels, Karen McDougal and many others easy to infer given the pattern set with other allegations, such as rape. They're perfectly happy that Trump believes it when he says "You can grab them by the pussy!"

 

[whm1974]

I remember how Woody Allen's character in one of his comic movies was asked "Is sex dirty?" And he answered "Yes -- when you're doin' it right!"

Our problem in this society has long been one of obsession. I'm deeply suspicious that evangelicals -- including those who support Trump -- have an excessive obsession with sex and sexuality. This should probably be contrasted to the traditionally held understanding of the "Mediterranean attitude" about sex, which is much healthier.

What else would explain the religious Right's assault on the funerals of dead soldiers -- to protest ;homosexuality in general and gay rights more specifically? What else explains this cockamamie idea of "conversion therapy"? What would explain a woman's crusade to remove the Merriam-Webster Collegiate Dictionary from a public school classroom, because her kid had found a definition in it for "oral sex"? Or the efforts of other stalwart citizens to remove a painting from an art gallery because it depicted a nude woman's breast?

Yet, they're perfectly happy that Trump dipped his wick in Stormy Daniels, Karen McDougal and many others easy to infer given the pattern set with other allegations, such as rape. They're perfectly happy that Trump believes it when he says "You can grab them by the pussy!"

You can blame mostly the Puritans for this since they are the ones that brought that crap over here. Of course if you want really want to blame the very first ones for starting this nonsense to begin with, that would Christianity for creating such a big deal over Human Sexuality.

 

[Moonbeam]

It's something you know when you see it.

In case anybody was confused by this;

In 1964, Justice Potter Stewart tried to explain "hard-core" pornography, or what is obscene, by saying, "I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced... ut I know it when I see it ..."

 

[Atreus21]

OK, so where does the Obscenity lie in your statement?

Well, could we agree that defecation porn is obscene?

 

[woolfe9998]

Although I'm not convinced that obscenity qualifies as free speech, I dont disagree with anything else you said.

It doesn't, by definition. What the SCOTUS defined in Miller v. California as "obscenity" isn't protected free speech. It's just that based on the test set forth in that case, most hardcore porn doesn't qualify as "obscenity" according to "contemporary community standards."

Per your post above, defecation porn probably does. Bestiality does for sure. If community standards were to change, however, then they too could become legal.

 

[whm1974]

It doesn't, by definition. What the SCOTUS defined in Miller v. California as "obscenity" isn't protected free speech. It's just that based on the test set forth in that case, most hardcore porn doesn't qualify as "obscenity" according to "contemporary community standards."

Per your post above, defecation porn probably does. Bestiality does for sure. If community standards were to change, however, then they too could become legal.

woolfe, don't give @Atreus21 any ideas. People such as him and his ilk have weak wills. They really can't help themselves for looking at rather nasty porn that the of rest us won't look at.

 

[Atreus21]

It doesn't, by definition. What the SCOTUS defined in Miller v. California as "obscenity" isn't protected free speech. It's just that based on the test set forth in that case, most hardcore porn doesn't qualify as "obscenity" according to "contemporary community standards."

Per your post above, defecation porn probably does. Bestiality does for sure. If community standards were to change, however, then they too could become legal.

Do you think we could safely ban the production of defecation porn then, without running afoul of the 1st amendment?

Also, aren't community standards measured democratically? If a state were to pass a law through its representatives, elected as they are by the community, which banned the production of hardcore pornography, wouldn't that be an effective proxy for community standards?

 

[Atreus21]

woolfe, don't give @Atreus21 any ideas. People such as him and his ilk have weak wills. They really can't help themselves for looking at rather nasty porn that the of rest us won't look at.

We are all weak-willed when the chips are down and the compulsion is there. Wise people avoid the temptation altogether.

 

[Atreus21]

What efforts specifically are these men making to control their impulses that you feel aren't being rightfully applauded?

Avoiding the consumption of porn.