No New GPUs from AMD for the Bulk of 2013 [TechPowerUp]

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
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I think Apple had something to do with this. Demand for the latest TSMC 20nm process is huge and it looks like GPU makers refused to pay the asking price. I would not be surprised if NVDA also stuck to 28nm through most of 2013, possibly ALL of 2013. Without a die shrink and with just software/driver tweaks and hardware arch revisions and a maturing 28nm, I don't think AMD could do much better than what they already have, so they probably said screw it, we'll punt until TSMC 20nm becomes more affordable.
 

Jaydip

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2010
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IIRC their CEO pointed out this new strategy in the conference call.They will leverage the existing fabrication process as long as they can.
 

Gideon

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
1,765
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Damn, this really really sucks. I'm becoming more and more depressed about AMDs lack of execution this year.

First the postponing of Kavieri to essentially 2014. Then they have Richland, which should be a drop-in-upgrade, and they are unable to get it to laptops until the same time that Haswell arrives. The same source said that Kabini will arrive for "Back to school" the earliest ... Now this :(

Yeah I get it, that they are financially strapped, but not releasing any new products at all, is not exactly the brightest way to make any cash, in a highly competitive environment.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
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Not like Nvidia has anything coming either, unless you consider a $900 GK110 a reasonable possibility for you.
 

zebrax2

Senior member
Nov 18, 2007
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I hope the next gen cards are worth the ~2 years wait.

I am also curious on how allotment for 20nm affected their roadmap.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
19,458
765
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Damn, this really really sucks. I'm becoming more and more depressed about AMDs lack of execution this year.

AMD never had desktop HD8000 on its official roadmap. They only said they are launching Sea Islands, which was specifically HD8000M. You cannot delay a product that was never announced. This is not the same as Piledriver or Kaveri which were on the roadmap.

Yeah I get it, that they are financially strapped, but not releasing any new products at all, is not exactly the brightest way to make any cash, in a highly competitive environment.

NV's GTX700 is also rumored to be postponed to Q4 2013. "Both AMD’s “Sea Islands” 8000 Series and NVIDIA’s 700 Series have apparently been pushed back all the way to the fourth quarter of 2013 according to SweClockers."

I think really it's the same competitive market that HD7000 has had to compete with GTX600 for the last 12 months. Titan changes little in the grand scheme this since $900 GPUs do not directly compete with $100-500 SKUs. AMD is investing heavily into game bundles instead of launching new GPUs. It's a different strategy and it costs $$$. Looking at Newegg, HD7950-7970 are starting to go out of stock, which means the Never Settle Reloaded bundle is creating some new interest from consumers. It's way cheaper to do a game bundle to increase sales than to launch a brand new GPU series in what is historically a usually slow Q1 for GPU sales. When HD7000 series launched in Q1 2012, they didn't really sell well. Most PC gamers do not upgrade in Q1.

With the reference HD7970GE drawing 238W at TPU in Crysis 2, there isn't much wiggle room to launch a much faster HD8970. Perhaps they are redesigning the chip around Pitcairn XT since that's a much more lean gaming chip. Perhaps they are waiting for 20nm node to launch the next series in Q4 2013/Q1 2014. Perhaps they could be occupied with fulfilling contracts for Sony/MS. One key rumour floating around that AMD was no longer just licensing their tech to Sony/MS, but actually delivering the chips and collecting royalties per each chip sold. For this reason there is an expected revenue stream that will occupy 20-40% of AMD's Revenue from these "Licensed tech" by Q4 2013. Normally if you only license the tech, you cannot make that much $ without selling the actual chips. If AMD has to deliver the chips for PS4/Xbox 720, that's a huge amount of responsibility. Perhaps they are waiting to rewrite the memory management of GCN before launching HD8000. Also, since GK114 is nowhere near launch, there is no rush to replace HD7000 as that series already has class leading price/performance at nearly every price level on the desktop. Where AMD needs to make the biggest push is mobile dGPU segment since this is where they lost the most market share due to not being aggressive enough with design wins.
 
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OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
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Not like Nvidia has anything coming either, unless you consider a $900 GK110 a reasonable possibility for you.

Some do, some don't. Those that don't, probably wouldn't be in the market for a new flagship AMD card either.

The bleeding-edge game isn't for blue-collars with 3 kids and a wife who likes designer bags and watches.
 

CakeMonster

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2012
1,488
647
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The bleeding-edge game isn't for blue-collars with 3 kids and a wife who likes designer bags and watches.

Well, a $400 upgrade + selling the old top card every 14 months or so (which is the AMD cycle since the 4xxx series) hardly compares to the cost of a typical handbag/watch/shoe addiction.
 

CakeMonster

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2012
1,488
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I am frankly surprised that AMD doesn't refresh the 79xx series with a higher clocked card again. The GE cards could easily have been launched when the series debuted considering the OC headroom. And on the memory the headroom is typically even better. And the chips being manufactured as of today are probably even more mature.. With 9-12 months to go I think its time for AMD to launch a 79xx card with slightly higher core speed and much higher memory speed.
 

Borealis7

Platinum Member
Oct 19, 2006
2,901
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This makes me genuinely sad. I wanted to put together a new GPU with a Haswell build come June.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
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I think Apple had something to do with this. Demand for the latest TSMC 20nm process is huge and it looks like GPU makers refused to pay the asking price. I would not be surprised if NVDA also stuck to 28nm through most of 2013, possibly ALL of 2013. Without a die shrink and with just software/driver tweaks and hardware arch revisions and a maturing 28nm, I don't think AMD could do much better than what they already have, so they probably said screw it, we'll punt until TSMC 20nm becomes more affordable.

I have completely missed this. Any info on this 20nm?
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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I have completely missed this. Any info on this 20nm?

Apple changed from Samsung to TSMC. So even, if we for fun sake says TSMC is on time with 20nm, then Apple buys up all the initial wafers. Plus Qualcomm wants its fair share too.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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People can just as well start getting used to 3 or even 4 year node cycles from nVidia and AMD. nVidia only got the Titan this year by somewhat accident.

So we get new node, rebrand, refresh and a possible rebrand before a new node again. While on DIY might be alittle different. Simply 1½-2 years between changes.
 

MisterMac

Senior member
Sep 16, 2011
777
0
0
Well - that sucks.

Was kinda looking for a GPU upgrade come summer - along with possibly haswell.


Would GTX 680 drop in price retail once Titan drops?

OR would i have to scour for used ones to get one cheap :C
 

Fx1

Golden Member
Aug 22, 2012
1,215
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If people want to upgrade then its a good idea to go CF and SLI now and given that gives 50-100% more FPS then its a good upgrade path rather than a new generation every year.

Also gives drivers a good chance to catch up with the chips and give us 100% of the available power in our GPU's
 

Borealis7

Platinum Member
Oct 19, 2006
2,901
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i was thinking of SLIing GTX660s on the cheap, but microstutter could be a big issue for me. I tend to notice these things. where i live, 2 x ZOTAC 660s cost the same as a GIGABYTE GTX670.
 
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3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
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Apple changed from Samsung to TSMC. So even, if we for fun sake says TSMC is on time with 20nm, then Apple buys up all the initial wafers. Plus Qualcomm wants its fair share too.

What would that have to do with now, today, this year? :\
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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What would that have to do with now, today, this year? :\

Because its expands the node cycle for GPU makers. And without node changes, GPU tech aint really going anywhere. Meaning no new products and you need to expand the lifespan for existing products.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
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But Apple supposedly taking away 20nm production in 2014 isn't what's stopping new models now. I've enver heard that Sea Islands. or whatever it's going to be called, was planned for 20nm. If it was then we wouldn't have been expecting anything this year in the first place.
 

CakeMonster

Golden Member
Nov 22, 2012
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I doubt that AMD had planned to make only one generation on 28nm, that would assume that there was no room for improvement in chip design and no room for improvement in tweaking the 28nm process. 40nm saw both 5xxx and 6xxx. With each shrink becoming more expensive, I'd be surprised if they went right to 20nm.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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But Apple supposedly taking away 20nm production in 2014 isn't what's stopping new models now. I've enver heard that Sea Islands. or whatever it's going to be called, was planned for 20nm. If it was then we wouldn't have been expecting anything this year in the first place.

The refresh gets delayed too. So a refresh in late 2013 or early 2014.

I doubt we gonna see any 20nm GPUs in 2014. More likely 2015.

To add a price perspective as well. A 28nm wafer from TSMC in january 2012 was around 7500$. And in january 2013 it was down to 2500$.
 
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3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
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The refresh gets delayed too. So a refresh in late 2013 or early 2014.

I doubt we gonna see any 20nm GPUs in 2014. More likely 2015.

To add a price perspective as well. A 28nm wafer from TSMC in january 2012 was around 7500$. And in january 2013 it was down to 2500$.

My God, man! There were never going to be any 20nm GPU's in '13. What are you on about? My point is Apple and 20nm are irrelevant to the situation now.

AMD can say that they never announced a release date for the next series, so it's not delayed. It's the same excuse we heard from nVidia last year. If AMD don't release their new desktop cards before quarter 4 2013, or until 2014, that's late.