No more nukes in Middle East says UN

[ConstipatedVigilante]

Lemon Law, you seem to think that Arab society is a circus of fuzzy bunnies while the "Nazi Israelis" "imprison" the Palestinians. The Arab nations oppress their women and jail dissenters, Shariah law dictates how people live (and Jews are not treated nicely), and their governments are nowhere near stable or mature enough to handle nuclear power.

Of course, the Israelis aren't saints either. But all of their nuclear proliferation and containment of refugees is in response to the historical violence that Arabs always direct towards them. Their actions are defensive - they don't attack unless provoked, and they do not call for the destruction of their neighbors. They may have taken their land unethically (although some say that the Palestinians fled war and the Jews simply moved in after them), but they don't threaten anyone else.

 

[Noobtastic]

Lemon Law, you seem to think that Arab society is a circus of fuzzy bunnies while the "Nazi Israelis" "imprison" the Palestinians. The Arab nations oppress their women and jail dissenters, Shariah law dictates how people live (and Jews are not treated nicely), and their governments are nowhere near stable or mature enough to handle nuclear power.

Of course, the Israelis aren't saints either. But all of their nuclear proliferation and containment of refugees is in response to the historical violence that Arabs always direct towards them. Their actions are defensive - they don't attack unless provoked, and they do not call for the destruction of their neighbors. They may have taken their land unethically (although some say that the Palestinians fled war and the Jews simply moved in after them), but they don't threaten anyone else.

LL doesn't defend the Arab states and their sensibilities. He doesn't talk about the accomplishments of Israel's enemies (there are none).

Rather, his entire thesis revolves around the one-sided argument that because the Palestinians were displaced 6 decades in a war that they started, anything and everything they do - regardless of how barbaric - can be forgiven, because their land was stolen11!!!

naturally of course the same metholodogy isn't applied to israel, as the arabs seized a land 4x the size of israel in the same time period.

Leftist fantasy is all about assigning blame. Blaming Israel is easy. It's loaded with Jews. It is a staunch opponent of communist foreign policy and its enemies are Muslims.

this is why LL says nothing about the apartheid muslim states, because those are his biggest supporters. Look in Europe - the "progressives" have married the Islamists. France and Britain routinely side with their arab allies in the UN.

the only thing LL hates more than Israel is America.

 

[Zebo]

Actually, Israel has a large enough military superiority to not need nukes for self defense.

And to some extent, initially, Israel could blame anti-antisemitism as a reason for being attacked by Arabs but that is no longer the case.

Given the way Israel has stolen land from and treated the Palestinian people, now gives all surrounding Arab countries and too many non neighboring countries perfectly justified and understandable reasons to dislike the current Israeli governments.

And having nukes just gives Israel too much in lulling itself into a false sense of security by doing nothing to alter their unacceptable behaviors that just keep driving up world wide hatreds against Israel.

Putting Israel on one side doing everything to prevent a viable Palestinian State against the entire rest of the world who are demanding that a viable Palestinian State start moving forward. Meanwhile the only way to defuse the terrorism directed at Israel is to restore the land taken from Palestinians.

And while Israel is presently a mid-east Goliath, both in nuclear and non nuclear terms, but compared to Nato, or Russia, or China, if Israel ever uses a single nuke, Israel is likely to get stepped on like an ant on the sidewalk.

Israel has only two viable futures, either a viable Palestinians State or it will be forced to assimilate the Palestinian people with full voting rights and with a right to return.

Meanwhile, even though many inside of Israel know this, Israel just keeps stalling things out making the forced to assimilate the Palestinians option the only alternative.

You're a fool of highest order. All of transjordan was supposed to be for Jews but once oil was discovered, and power it brought by accident of geography, the western powers proceeded to roll it to steal it back from jews.. The same jews they kicked out of and discriminated against in Europe for centuries. Followed by the Arabs who moved shock troops from all around to pressure jews to GTFO. Who's really stealing?

 

[Zebo]

Concentration camp?

Way to trivilize the holocaust.

Israel has zero trade obligations with Gaza. Israel is a sovereign state. Gaza is not part of Israel nor is it occupied by it.

Egypt is under pressure from the US, not Israel - but Egypt shut down their borders with Gaza well before Israel.

And unlike Israel, which ships in 10,000 tons of aid a week, Egypt sends squat.

Oh wow, tell me Oric, here is Israel - the enemy - being subject to daily rocket and mortar attacks, and it is escorting aid into Gaza.
.

That's Israels fault. Bunch of dumb fucks as far as I 'm concerned. You don't defeat people with kindness you kill them until point and time they realize you're willing erase them from existence. Same as in a street fight. If the dude is about half dead he will cry uncle and do whatever you want as you have his head against the curb ready to cave it in.

"War is not merely a political act, but also a political instrument, a continuation of political relations, a carrying out of the same by other means" - Israelis maybe a racist because a German said it but this is a universal truth like gravity and they have failed at.

If I were Israeli King - I'd seize one oil field from Arabia for every dead Jew as punitive damages. Shouldn't be long knowing those fundis who can't control their homicidal tendencies before Israel is richest nation on the planet and those who control the spice control the universe.

 

[Lemon law]

There you go again IHV, as you seamlessly are full of shit in saying, " Rather, his entire thesis revolves around the one-sided argument that because the Palestinians were displaced 6 decades in a war that they started."

Sadly your whole contention failed totally because external Arab national States with armies have nothing to do with the with unarmed Palestinians that happened to be residents of the former British mandate, Missing in action is the guilt attached.

What a totally stinking unthinking Turd of an contention, it was Arab nationalistic states who shamelessly and unjustifiably attacked the State of Israel right after the UN 1948 formation of the State of Israel. Thankfully, IMHO, the Arab States were defeated by a better organized Israel.

After that, Israel was at a crossroad, it could have granted equal rights to all its residents population of Jews, Arab that lived inside Israel, and Palestinian who also resided within the former British mandate. And none of those groups had anything to do with the unjust attack on Israel and never had no real arms for that matter either.

Yes, in any just mid-east peace the Arab States must compensate the land they stole from Jews, and Israel must compensate Palestinians for land they stole from them. We can't move back, we can only move forward.

Instead Israel stole 2/3 thirds of the the land of native Palestinians and Arab residents of the former British mandate, and used that land to form the Country of Israel on that firm basis of unjustifiable land theft against the weak and blameless.

But Israeli point granted, many Arab States then promptly expelled their own Jews in a similar orgy of injustice. Missing in action is any reasons to blame native Arab and Palestinian residents of the former British mandate who got stripped of their land, human rights, and tossed into concentration camps.

So really now, 62 years later how do we JUSTLY solve this giant mess. Given there are really four main groups to deal with, the state of Israel, the surrounding Arab Nationalistic States, the former Arab and Palestinians residents now tossed into Israeli concentration and languishing there, and what amounts to the larger world. Nor any shortage of past sins on all sides.

Nor should we avert our eyes off the end goal prize! That win win win solution that benefits everyone. One one hand Israel has a inalienable right to exits within the mid-east in peace, surrounding Arab States can benefit from superior technology and trade relations with Israel, while at the same time Israel has no right to retard Arab development and self determination, and at the same time the larger world must free the millions of Arabs and Palestinians held in Israeli defacto concentrations camps in Gaza and the West Bank.

So are we gong to be prisoners of past injustices or is now time to take a Fresh look at who is the greatest beneficiary and who is the greatest set of villains preventing the win win win mid-east peace NOW NOW AND NOW at this point of time?

And I submit to this forum, no doubt about it, the greatest problem is Israel, followed by Arab States, and at a very distant third is the real victims, namely the Palestinians. At the same time, Israel has been the greatest beneficiary as its robbed the Palestinian people totally.

 

[SamurAchzar]

After that, Israel was at a crossroad, it could have granted equal rights to all its residents population of Jews, Arab that lived inside Israel, and Palestinian who also resided within the former British mandate. And none of those groups had anything to do with the unjust attack on Israel and never had no real arms for that matter either.

The 25% (around 2 million) Arabs living in Israel today (with full rights, of course), tell me LL, who are they? Maybe those same guys from the "crossroads"?

 

[Noobtastic]

That's Israels fault. Bunch of dumb fucks as far as I 'm concerned. You don't defeat people with kindness you kill them until point and time they realize you're willing erase them from existence. Same as in a street fight. If the dude is about half dead he will cry uncle and do whatever you want as you have his head against the curb ready to cave it in.

"War is not merely a political act, but also a political instrument, a continuation of political relations, a carrying out of the same by other means" - Israelis maybe a racist because a German said it but this is a universal truth like gravity and they have failed at.

If I were Israeli King - I'd seize one oil field from Arabia for every dead Jew as punitive damages. Shouldn't be long knowing those fundis who can't control their homicidal tendencies before Israel is richest nation on the planet and those who control the spice control the universe.

Most Israelis agree. But the reality Israel must do its best to placate the USA and UN. If that means subsidizing Gaza, so be it.

Israel did the same for the WB when it showed up in 67'.

The Israeli military worships the golden age, or the time when the IDF didn't give a shit about the Palestinians and treated them like the enemy they were.

1950s/60s nearly 5,000+ Palestinians were killed in cross-border raids, but the media and UN said squat, mostly, because Israel didn't fuck around.

Now Israel coddles and treats its enemies like infants, and the left exploits that.

they worship ruthless dictatorships - iran, venezuala, and fascist PNA.

I do find it hilarious how the Arab states go on and on about destroying Israel, but then when Israel is at their door step they beg the UN for cease-fire and promise to never provoke the Zionists again.

As far as oil goes, Nixon drew up plans for a potential invasion of Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and other oil allies in a concerted conflict alongside Israel and Britain to capture major oil plants.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/TSU407A.html

Had the oil embargo continued USA would have likely invaded Saudi Arabia.

 

[Lemon law]

The 25% (around 2 million) Arabs living in Israel today (with full rights, of course), tell me LL, who are they? Maybe those same guys from the "crossroads"?[/QUOTE------------------------------------------------------------------------
Liar liar pants on fire, Arab Israelis are at best second class citizens inside of Israel and now are being zoned out of East Jerusalem. Nor can Arabs serve in the Israeli army while every full Israeli citizen is obligated.

Israel is and remains an Apartheid State based on solely religion.

Sorry, Sammy, hard as you try, you cannot defend the indefensible. Facts are sharp things, they will cut you if you try to juggle them.

 

[Noobtastic]

Liar liar pants on fire, Arab Israelis are at best second class citizens inside of Israel and now are being zoned out of East Jerusalem. Nor can Arabs serve in the Israeli army while every full Israeli citizen is obligated.

Liar liar pants on fire? What is this 4th grade?

Arabs can live anywhere they want in Israel. Please tell me how Arabs are being zoned out of East Jerusalem. According to demographic statistics, Arab population in Jerusalem exploded after 1967 - largely because Palestinians displaced in 1948 were allowed access into the city, whereas they were denied entrance during the Jordanian occupation.

And yes, Arabs can serve in the military, and some do. They are just exempt because the Israeli government knows most Arab Israelis don't want to fight against Palestinians and/or Arabs.

This goes back the 1950s when the Arab minority was considered a "hostile threat." Some Knesset legislators have proposed making army service mandatory for Arabs but it has been rejected by the powerful Islamist movement and Balad.

The Druze, on the other hand, consider themselves totally independent of the Arab minority.

In fact, 85% of all Druze Israelis serve in the IDF, while only 74% of all Israeli Jews serve.

So, controlling for population, more Druze serve in the IDF than Jews.

5 weeks ago a Druze Israel was stabbed to death by a homicidal Palestinian:

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3847179,00.html

Oh, and did you know 35% of all Israeli Arab vote for Zionist parties?

Tell me LL, are they self-hating Arabs?

As Khaled Abu Tomeh once said, he'd rather be a 2nd class citizen of Israel than a 1st class citizen of Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, etc.

Why do you think Israeli Arabs refuse to emigrate?

You'd think if their lives were so horrible, they'd leave. There are 23 Arab states and 1 Jewish state.

If I was an Arab living in a Jewish state and considered myself victim to an apartheid government, I'd emigrate to a Jew-free Arab state, no?
'
Imagine if there were 23 Jewish states and 1 Arab state, and I as a Jew lived as a minority in the Arab state.

If I was subject to apartheid status, I'd emigrate to the 23 options I have.

Wouldn't you?

 

[irishScott]

IrishScott, to only address yout first wrong 2.5 out of three points of,

"1. The Palestinians are not being herded into death camps, staved out, deported, or otherwise eliminated as part of some Israeli "final solution".( At best you are half right, Israel has done everything Hitler did to Jews except for herding them into gas chambers. Still same fast shuffle, steal their land, herd them into a concentration camp, and give them no hope. )

2. Israel has not attempted to invade or take over its neighbors, despite arguably having the military capability to do so (at least to some). In fact, it willingly gave back territory it won in war. (100% wrong, Israel without being actually being attacked in 1967&73 used the excuse of possible Arab mobilization to illegitimately seize land it can never own. Other than the US brokered Israeli give back of the worthless can't grow a weed Sinai desert, Israel has not given back anything. And until Obama finally said, oh no you don't, Israel has been ever since been building settlements in East Jerusalem and
the West Bank on land they can never own. )

3. German Jews were still German, and were pretty integrated into German society before Hitler went nuts on them. Palestinians and Israeli Jews have never been the same people. ( Sorry Charlie, simply not true, long before the first Russian Jew emigrated to what is now Israel, an eclectic mix of Palestinians and Arabs occupied and called home, what is now a part of the former British mandate of Palestine. As more and more Jews were imported prior to WW2, some racial tensions developed, but at the same time, many Jews, Arabs , and Palestinians found ways to coexist both peacefully and for the mutual benefit of all. And in terms of the British administrator of the Palestinian mandate the most radical terrorists were Jewish. Then the European nations, the very rascals who created and ignored the Holocaust concocted a brilliant plan to dump all the Jewish refugees they screwed on the Arabs and Palestinians by creating the State of Israel in 1948. As the Brits left, stage left, about two thirds of the land in Israel was then owned by native Palestinians and Arabs and the rest by Jews. Historical point granted, another totally different group, citizens of Arab nations with armies unfairly attacked Israel, and were justly repelled with superior Israel organization. The point being, those Arabs and Palestinians that happened to reside inside of the 1948 borders of Israel had no real arms, did not attack Israel, but because they were weak and powerless, they became the victims of Israeli Nazi tactics. And for no damn reason at all their land was stolen and they were exiled to concentration camps, a shame Israel will never escape. The fact is and remains, a just Israeli State can't be built on that shameful basis, and after 62 years its becoming all the more apparent by the day. )

Some may say that that Israel, holy to three religions can only be be owned Jews, and I ask why can't it be fairly shared by all three groups?

1. I see no concentration camps or anything fitting that description. The closest comparison you could make are pre-20th century US Indian Reservations, and even that would be way off. Your comparison to Nazi Germany fails harder than that stick up your ass.

2. I meant a military invasion to take over other nations. Last I checked Lebanon was still Lebanon.

3. I obviously meant modern Israelis, not Jews in general. If we're going to take a trip back through time, then technically everyone once lived together because we all came from freaking Africa. If you think that's an extreme example, then you have some idea of what I think of your Nazi comparison.

 

[Oric]

Israel attacks aid convoy consisting of different nationalities (some EU). 2 dead, 30 wounded (not reported on this link) on international waters

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10195838.stm

 

[Oric]

and read this report to define what the blockade of the Gaza really mean

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8654337.stm

The BBC has received information from reliable sources that there are currently 81 items that are approved for import - from kidney beans to tinned meat - and as of March, shoes.

Among the large range of goods currently forbidden are jam, chocolate, wood for furniture, fruit juice, textiles, and plastic toys.

 

[alkemyst]

The UN supported the US when it was healthy and able to send aid to everyone and their brother. Now times have changed and other countries see the US as a failing nation (much like Russia of old). They have learned they can do much of what we did for them themselves.

Meanwhile the US is unarming itself in line with Russia. All I know is most of Russia's demilitarized items end up in other nations hands.

 

[Noobtastic]

Israel attacks aid convoy consisting of different nationalities (some EU). 2 dead, 30 wounded (not reported on this link) on international waters

usual BBC bias.

couple weeks ago they slipped, doing a bit on Gazans smuggling luxury vehicles (mercedes, BMWs sedans) through the tunnels.

recently hamas...err, the UN, opened an olympic size pool in the heart of Gaza city.

and now comes the flotilla laden with basic foods and provocateurs.

since when are aid activists armed to the teeth?

i like how turkey is calling an emergency session.

imagine if israel called an emergency session every time turkey went on another rampage against the kurdish rebels.

 

[Lemon law]

Gotta be simply amazed that an armed Israeli attack on a Gaza aid flotilla in international waters that has made front page headlines in every newspaper on earth is dismissed by IHV with the offhand remark, "usual BBC bias."

 

[Noobtastic]

Gotta be simply amazed that an armed Israeli attack on a Gaza aid flotilla in international waters that has made front page headlines in every newspaper on earth is dismissed by IHV with the offhand remark, "usual BBC bias."

"attack."

You mean board and search? If Israel were to attack the ship, if it would have destroyed it.

US and EU ships routinely hit Somalia piracy ships in "international waters."

Hell, when Iran seized dozens of British sailors it got less news.