No more nukes in Middle East says UN

[frostedflakes]

UN: No more nukes in Middle East
Israel: Hear, hear!
UN: Hold on, we mean you too
Israel: ...

 

[Murloc]

So be reversing your logic, it could be claimed that the day Palestinians have their state, all animosity towards Israel and the West would stop among Muslims. Is this correct?

they still stole their land and are not going to give everything back, because that would undermine israel's existance.
This will never happen.
They won't even allow for a palestinian state to be created, and they will deport people to gaza forever because they want a jew state.

After a conflict like this one everyone who was involved and their sons and daughters will have to be dead before most of the animosity stops.

The damage is already done anyway, it's much harder to repair than to prevent.

 

[Lemon law]

So be reversing your logic, it could be claimed that the day Palestinians have their state, all animosity towards Israel and the West would stop among Muslims. Is this correct?

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No, some of the Arabs hatreds will persist over the time, but still its better than the present alternative of Israeli policy that continues to keep building and building the hatreds to ever higher levels.

In short, present Israeli policy is unsustainable, the only hope for Israeli lies in defusing those hatreds over time. And the greater hope is that Israel can gain mid-east acceptance and live in peace with its neighbors. With that made impossible by present Israeli policy which amounts to the politics of pigs, nothing to do with religion and everything to do with human greed.

And if the rest of the world does not force Israeli to a just mid-east peace, Stateless terrorists will gain enough technology to make the holy land of Israel uninhabitable for everyone for the foreseeable future. Something Israeli fan clubber seem incapable of understanding.

 

[irishScott]

When the Arab and Persian nations prove themselves culturally mature enough to posses nuclear weapons and not wield them like a 3 year old given a real gun that he thinks is a toy, I'll be more than happy to let them own as many as they like.

As long as radical elements, who would be perfectly happy to see the complete and utter obliteration of an entire people by whatever means, have a significant say in their government, they are not culturally mature enough.

 

[SandEagle]

"Greed!

The moment Israel officially admits they have nuclear weapons, the American people will demand that the US Government stop sending military aid to a nation that as a nuclear power clearly does not need it, and as a belligerent constantly invading its neighbors does not deserve it.

The American people will rightly point out that aid from the US to Israel is illegal under the 1976 Symington Amendment to the 1961 Foreign Appropriations Act and the Glenn Act.

Israel wants their nukes and their billions from the US taxpayer too, and in their world view see no reason they should not continue to have both!

- quoted from mike rivero of whatreallyhappened.com

 

[Lemon law]

irishScott bleats that "When the Arab and Persian nations prove themselves culturally mature enough to posses nuclear weapons."

Funny thing, I see zero evidence that Israel has the humanity or maturity to show themselves mature enough to possess weapons of mass destruction.

You would think Israelis would have realized after suffering a totally unfair holocaust, that asserting genetic and military superiority over the weak can lead to only massive injustice, but first damn chance Israel had, Israel aped Hitler policies against its weaker Palestinian indigenous population. As they on a solely racial basis, stole land, tossed them into concentration camps, and hold them in cruel and hopeless bondage. All that is missing is the gas ovens and Israel would be the new Nazis. Yet somehow, the lack of gas ovens leaves Israelis as the good guys??????????????????????????????????????????

It did not have to be that way folks, the UN in 1948 had a right to hope for better out of Israel , and here we are 62 years later and its far past time the larger world demands better of Israel that still holds on to its ill gotten gains. Israel is further away from peace and acceptance that it was in 1948. The Nazi's only lasted 12 years, for Israeli, its been 62 years of Nazi policy and still a world threat to any just peace.

 

[SandEagle]

clearly israel is not responsible enough to have nukes.

they tried to sell nukes to south africa?! wtf.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons

 

[SamurAchzar]

"Greed!

The moment Israel officially admits they have nuclear weapons, the American people will demand that the US Government stop sending military aid to a nation that as a nuclear power clearly does not need it, and as a belligerent constantly invading its neighbors does not deserve it.

So you're saying that the American public will cut off any aid to Israel so that it would have to deploy its nuclear weapons to defend itself? So far, history has proven the opposite, nuclear-capable nations are nurtured by the international community so that everything is kept in check.

No, some of the Arabs hatreds will persist over the time, but still its better than the present alternative of Israeli policy that continues to keep building and building the hatreds to ever higher levels.

In short, present Israeli policy is unsustainable, the only hope for Israeli lies in defusing those hatreds over time. And the greater hope is that Israel can gain mid-east acceptance and live in peace with its neighbors. With that made impossible by present Israeli policy which amounts to the politics of pigs, nothing to do with religion and everything to do with human greed.

And if the rest of the world does not force Israeli to a just mid-east peace, Stateless terrorists will gain enough technology to make the holy land of Israel uninhabitable for everyone for the foreseeable future. Something Israeli fan clubber seem incapable of understanding.

Funny you should say that, as the radicals you're talking about won't accept any kind of solution that leaves Jews in the Middle East, and in general they don't care too much about the Palestinians anyway, or you'd see Obama having a go at Israel before he went for the USA.
The Palestinians are just an excuse of people like you for the holy war waged by Muslims on anyone else, Israel included.

And if anything, recent history shows that a Muslim bearing a WMD will go off in Europe or USA much sooner than he'll go off in Israel. You can attribute that to convenience, ideology or security; the point remains.

 

[SamurAchzar]

clearly israel is not responsible enough to have nukes.

they tried to sell nukes to south africa?! wtf.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons

To my understanding, Israel got Uranium from SA in exchange for nuclear R&D. So I guess France and Russia shouldn't be having nukes too, as they assisted Iraq and Iran respectively. Double standards again?

 

[Narmer]

clearly israel is not responsible enough to have nukes.

they tried to sell nukes to south africa?! wtf.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons

Thanks for the link. This just goes to show that Israel is not as responsible as it claims. Their ancient nuclear facilities are killing and hospitalizing the workers there. Now, it has been revealed that they tried to sell nukes to South Africa.

As for Iran, it is somewhat understandable why they would want nuclear weapons. They have been persecuted by the majority of Muslims for their Shia sect. They were the victim of a CIA/MI5-backed covert operation that overthrew their government. Furthermore, they have hostile American troops surrounding their country on at least three sides (Turkey, Iraq, and Afghanistan). If I was in their shoes I'd be paranoid too and would want a powerful deterrant to keep the superpower at bay.

 

[Narmer]

To my understanding, Israel got Uranium from SA in exchange for nuclear R&D. So I guess France and Russia shouldn't be having nukes too, as they assisted Iraq and Iran respectively. Double standards again?

They were trying to sell the warheads. The article makes that explicitly clear.

 

[irishScott]

irishScott bleats that "When the Arab and Persian nations prove themselves culturally mature enough to posses nuclear weapons."

Funny thing, I see zero evidence that Israel has the humanity or maturity to show themselves mature enough to possess weapons of mass destruction.

You would think Israelis would have realized after suffering a totally unfair holocaust, that asserting genetic and military superiority over the weak can lead to only massive injustice, but first damn chance Israel had, Israel aped Hitler policies against its weaker Palestinian indigenous population. As they on a solely racial basis, stole land, tossed them into concentration camps, and hold them in cruel and hopeless bondage. All that is missing is the gas ovens and Israel would be the new Nazis. Yet somehow, the lack of gas ovens leaves Israelis as the good guys??????????????????????????????????????????

It did not have to be that way folks, the UN in 1948 had a right to hope for better out of Israel , and here we are 62 years later and its far past time the larger world demands better of Israel that still holds on to its ill gotten gains. Israel is further away from peace and acceptance that it was in 1948. The Nazi's only lasted 12 years, for Israeli, its been 62 years of Nazi policy and still a world threat to any just peace.

Lemon Law thinks I "bleat", and then compares Israel to Nazi Germany. /Godwin's Law

Since when are Palestinians in concentration camps? Since when is Israel holding them in "cruel and hopeless bondage"? Last I checked the Palestinians in general have no desire to live or associate with the Israelis, even if it was an option. The fact that the feeling among a lot of Israelis is mutual doesn't change that fact. I could go on, but suffice to say your comparison is in the top 10 most legitimate uses of Godwin's Law I've seen on the internet.

 

[Hacp]

Thanks for the link. This just goes to show that Israel is not as responsible as it claims. Their ancient nuclear facilities are killing and hospitalizing the workers there. Now, it has been revealed that they tried to sell nukes to South Africa.

As for Iran, it is somewhat understandable why they would want nuclear weapons. They have been persecuted by the majority of Muslims for their Shia sect. They were the victim of a CIA/MI5-backed covert operation that overthrew their government. Furthermore, they have hostile American troops surrounding their country on at least three sides (Turkey, Iraq, and Afghanistan). If I was in their shoes I'd be paranoid too and would want a powerful deterrant to keep the superpower at bay.

None of them should have nukes. I would prefer that the only country that has the power of nukes is the US. We're the only country that can handle it. We've used it in war before. We know what it can do.

 

[Narmer]

None of them should have nukes. I would prefer that the only country that has the power of nukes is the US. We're the only country that can handle it. We've used it in war before. We know what it can do.

That's nice and all but reality is hard to ignore.

 

[Oric]

Lemon Law thinks I "bleat", and then compares Israel to Nazi Germany. /Godwin's Law

Since when are Palestinians in concentration camps? Since when is Israel holding them in "cruel and hopeless bondage"? Last I checked the Palestinians in general have no desire to live or associate with the Israelis, even if it was an option. The fact that the feeling among a lot of Israelis is mutual doesn't change that fact. I could go on, but suffice to say your comparison is in the top 10 most legitimate uses of Godwin's Law I've seen on the internet.

The "Gaza strip" is the PC way of defining a concentration camp. The Gazans have no free trade with the outside world, land locked by Israel and Egypt (who is under pressure from Israel) and sea locked (no outside access to Gaza from Mediterrenean sea because of Israel navy), blockaded. Fuel and electricity controlled by Israel... A modern nightmare of a country

 

[SandEagle]

The "Gaza strip" is the PC way of defining a concentration camp. The Gazans have no free trade with the outside world, land locked by Israel and Egypt (who is under pressure from Israel) and sea locked (no outside access to Gaza from Mediterrenean sea), blockaded. Fuel and electricity controlled by Israel... A modern nightmare of a country

NEVER AGAIN.......
.............unless you're Palestinian.

 

[Narmer]

The "Gaza strip" is the PC way of defining a concentration camp. The Gazans have no free trade with the outside world, land locked by Israel and Egypt (who is under pressure from Israel) and sea locked (no outside access to Gaza from Mediterrenean sea because of Israel navy), blockaded. Fuel and electricity controlled by Israel... A modern nightmare of a country

It's a more humane, modern concentration camp. Of course, Israelis make a killing (pun intended) selling the Palestinians weapons and the Egyptians make a killing selling everything else.

 

[Lemon law]

irishScott, in saying, "Lemon Law thinks I "bleat", and then compares Israel to Nazi Germany. /Godwin's Law".

Hate to tell you irishScott, you seem to be totally confused if you think I believe in the non existent validity of the so called Godwin's law. I am simply telling you the honest truth and pardon me if I have total contempt on your invalid deflection.

If you don't think Israel is acting exactly like Hitlers Germany in regard to the Palestinians, please tell this forum why not the honest way.

 

[Rainsford]

I see what you guys are saying about Israel having nukes being different than Iran having nukes. But here's the thing...whether it seems logical or not, we are not going to be able to stick with a long-term plan of saying "Yeah, your ancient enemies are allowed to have nuclear weapons and you aren't." It's just not going to work, it creates too much of a power imbalance in the region between sides that don't even remotely trust each other.

 

[2Xtreme21]

Who gave us the rights to dictate who has nukes and who doesn't? I'd think we should be the ones who are stripped of any rights to them, seeing how we're the only country reckless enough to have used them... TWICE.

We're no better than anyone else in the world. Anyone who says otherwise is a fucking sheep, blinded by American Exceptionalism.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I see what you guys are saying about Israel having nukes being different than Iran having nukes. But here's the thing...whether it seems logical or not, we are not going to be able to stick with a long-term plan of saying "Yeah, your ancient enemies are allowed to have nuclear weapons and you aren't." It's just not going to work, it creates too much of a power imbalance in the region between sides that don't even remotely trust each other.

In the now we have a government quite willing to kill it's own citizens and probably rig elections to stay in power. When that particular issue is resolved then revisiting Iranian nukes would be appropriate.

 

[2Xtreme21]

In the now we have a government quite willing to kill it's own citizens and probably rig elections to stay in power. When that particular issue is resolved then revisiting Iranian nukes would be appropriate.

So do we.

Also-- president has no power in Iran, but thanks anyway.

 

[piasabird]

Great Idea, if the UN says so everything will be just fine. Nothing the UN says means anything. Remember the UN sent Peacekeepers to Lebanon.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So do we.

Also-- president has no power in Iran, but thanks anyway.

Would you show us where we killed people because of the Bush/Gore election? How about locking up reporters? Maybe shutting down the internet because of it? Shutting down TV and radio stations? How the newspapers?

You see every government will kill it's citizens given the right circumstances. Those however aren't the same in different nations.

Imadinnerjacket has little official power. In theory you could be his public enemy and be immune from reprisals. In practice I think you would find it to be risky business to openly oppose him. You notice there's not a lot of that.

 

[RedChief]

Thats fine but thats the main reason Iran is building nukes. I'm sure u are aware of this double standard?

Not that I care you see... You guys have nukes and they dont...for now. Maybe Israel will nuke them before they get them. Its the only way to be sure...

Ok, if the main reason Iran is building nukes is Israel, then why did North Korea build nukes. Why does Chavez want nukes. Why does every tin-pot dictator/totalitalian regime want nukes? Because it allows them to pursue by force what ever they want.

The simple fact is Democracies, of which Israel is one and no other mid-east state is one (aside from Iraq...hmm), do not engage in wars with other democracies (exception to prove rule: Finland in WW2). If Iran, Syria, Saudi, etc were true democracies then Israel would have no reason for nukes as it would not have fear of being wiped out completely.