NJ Teacher's Union refusing minor paycut

[Fenixgoon]

You are missing all the extra days off that they get during the year.

2 weeks at Christmas
1 week at Easter
5 weeks summer vacation
plus every holiday in existence.

My sister in-law is a teacher. Makes around $50k, has 8 weeks off a year, every holiday off and is home by 4-5 every day.

By most of our standards it would be considered a dream job.

and if you asked my mom or my SIL, you'd find out that they put in tons of hours *after* they got home almost every night from school, and rarely made it home by 4-5.

most of the teachers i've met put in hours well beyond just school operating hours.

 

[MovingTarget]

Actually, it does not sound reasonable at all.

Teachers often do not get but small cost of living increases each year. Where I'm at, I have lots of family that are in the profession, and the small raise they get usually - barely - covers the rise in insurance premiums. Teachers don't get alot of money in most places. My cousin has to pay over 850 a month for her family plan insurance (not including dental/vision).

If you want to cut education spending - how about testing. Cut that out. That'd save hundreds of millions. Stop transporting kids to school - end the school bus. Let that be the parent's job to get them there. Look at administrative salaries and positions. Look at sports programs. There are lots of places to slash. Leave teachers alone.

The deal is when times are good and the person that went into business/engineering/something else - they get nice raises, bonuses, etc - teachers - not at all. When times are bad - teachers should not have to go backwards in pay. Teachers even in the best of economies only get meager raises while everyone else gets great ones - they should keep what meager raises they get in the bad economies, too.

I don't want to get into the whole union argument - however, I am grateful for a semi normal workweek with time off with family. Thank you unions of old.

This. I have plenty of problems with the teachers' union where I teach, but this issue is not one of them. The amount of work involved in teaching does NOT end when the students go home at 3pm...not by a longshot. You cannot directly compare what a teacher does to another field such as engineering, etc.

 

[ProfJohn]

If you dream of making $50k, you must live in Pakistan.

Are you just trolling??

$50k is well above our national median income.

And then calculate their time off into the equation.

Typical person making $50k works 50 weeks a year, 2 weeks paid vacation, or about $1000 per week of actual work.

Teacher making $50k only works 44 weeks a year or $1100 per week of work, not bad for a job like teaching.

 

[rchiu]

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=High_School_Teacher/Salary/by_State
It says new high school teachers get about $43k per year. Middle school and elementary teachers are paid considerably less.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104652.html
Median personal income in New Jersey was $47k in this 2006 data, so a fresh teacher with a 4 year degree earns less than most random people while the median teacher is a lot closer to the state median income.

So how much do teachers work? Luckily one of my friends became an elementary teacher and I could ask her on MSN. She says they stay maybe a day or two after the finals and they get back to school 1-2 weeks before school starts. That leaves about 5 weeks vacation.

Teachers actually do work about 40 hours per week (link)
43k moneys / 47 weeks worked / 40 hours per week = $22.87/hour

FUCKING TEACHERS MAKING ALMOST $23 PER HOUR? THIS IS AN OUTRAGE.


In a couple weeks I'm graduating from electrical engineering and many of my class mates are already getting starting wages around $25/hour. We also get paid overtime (teachers do not). The only perk teachers have that I don't is a better pension.

wow, 43k to start with multi-million dollar pension and 8 weeks+ vacation right out of college? why bother going to EE or any engineering, work your butt off only to get a job that can be outsourced to Indian/Chinese engineers anytime.

 

[Blackjack200]

Are you just trolling??

$50k is well above our national median income.

And then calculate their time off into the equation.

Typical person making $50k works 50 weeks a year, 2 weeks paid vacation, or about $1000 per week of actual work.

Teacher making $50k only works 44 weeks a year or $1100 per week of work, not bad for a job like teaching.

I'm aware of what the national median income is. I said if you dream of making $50k.

Would you be happy if your kids told you that their ambition in life is to make $50k?

 

[HendrixFan]

I'm aware of what the national median income is. I said if you dream of making $50k.

Would you be happy if your kids told you that their ambition in life is to make $50k?

I think he meant it would be nice to be paid above the national median and still have tons of time off. The friends that I have that are teachers here in Texas get more than 5 weeks off during the summer in addition to 2 weeks for Christmas and a week for spring break.

If your kids told you their ambition in life was to have plenty of free time away from work to dedicate to family and personal happiness, while still pulling in a good salary (above the national average for an entire household) would you be happy?

 

[her209]

I don't know much about this situation, but it sounds like the Governor is spot on, and the central leadership of the union is being greedy. The Gov outlined a plan to keep everyone's job without impacting the overall pay of the teacher's too dramatically. Even though many smaller components of the union are for it, the central leadership is refusing, and spinning it back at the Governor saying he's an idiot.

If this was part of a contract agreement that was negotiated previously then the Governor is out of line with his demands; and the state will probably will get sued for breach of contract.

 

[BoberFett]

If this was part of a contract agreement that was negotiated previously then the Governor is out of line with his demands; and the state will probably will get sued for breach of contract.

I'm sure you said the same thing about the huge bonuses being thrown around at the time of the bank bailouts, right?

 

[Red Dawn]

Are you just trolling??

$50k is well above our national median income.

And then calculate their time off into the equation.

Typical person making $50k works 50 weeks a year, 2 weeks paid vacation, or about $1000 per week of actual work.

Teacher making $50k only works 44 weeks a year or $1100 per week of work, not bad for a job like teaching.

You make it sound as if Teaching is a low skilled low stress job

 

[rchiu]

I'm aware of what the national median income is. I said if you dream of making $50k.

Would you be happy if your kids told you that their ambition in life is to make $50k?

Heh, people used to look down on people talk about money like it's everything in life. I guess that has changed and money worshiping is back in style.

Well I cannot speak for the rest of the parents but if my kids were to told me they want to make an above national median income, while work with kids and have the time for themselves and their family in a job that is more secure than the most with great benefits and pension, I'd be very happy for them.

 

[Red Dawn]

Heh, people used to look down on people talk about money like it's everything in life. I guess that has changed and money worshiping is back in style.

Well I cannot speak for the rest of the parents but if my kids were to told me they want to make an above national median income, while work with kids and have the time for themselves and their family in a job that is more secure than the most with great benefits and pension, I'd be very happy for them.

I dunno, maybe before they were forced to take on the role of surrogate parents it was a desirable profession but these days it doesn't seem such a great career.

 

[Siddhartha]

Are you just trolling??

$50k is well above our national median income.

And then calculate their time off into the equation.

Typical person making $50k works 50 weeks a year, 2 weeks paid vacation, or about $1000 per week of actual work.

Teacher making $50k only works 44 weeks a year or $1100 per week of work, not bad for a job like teaching.

What is $50K in terms of the NJ cost of living? Also you get what you pay for. How important is the quality of your children's education to you?

 

[nonlnear]

What is $50K in terms of the NJ cost of living? Also you get what you pay for. How important is the quality of your children's education to you?

So important that I won't be putting them in public schools.

And no, you don't get what you pay for. You get what you negotiate for - and then you pay for it. Public schools don't negotiate for quality. The only thing that anyone even bothers to pretend that serves as a proxy for quality is benchmark performance statistics, including inflated scores on dumbed down tests, and minutes of ass time in the desks (never mind if the kids are texting all day).

 

[Darwin333]

That is one big c**ted benefit, let me tell you.

Or, at least it used to be/is right now. The pensions in this country are a joke and cannot be maintained, I don't think most on the public teat quite realize that yet.

The really scary part is the people who are protesting this are the very same people teaching math to the next generation.

The math simply does not work, it really is that simple. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks they deserve, 1+1 still equals 2. Personally, I would be all for drastically decreasing their benefits while giving them significant payraises (most teachers in the country are underpaid, imo, not sure about NJ but down here they are) but paying $124K in and getting $4,000,000 out just doesn't work.

 

[Fingolfin269]

You can bitch and moan about teachers getting a month or two off a year but they also bring more work home during their 10 months or work than anyone else I know. So, while they may have 2 months off (keep in mind that many of us in the private sector also get quite a bit of vacation), they are also grading papers, creating lesson plans, etc. in their own time at home.

With that being said, F this union BS. Many of us in the private sector have already given up some amount of pay, benefits, etc. due to the current economic climate.

 

[zsdersw]

Fortunately for me, WI's pension system is doing just fine. I'm not a teacher, though.. nor am I in any union (wouldn't want to be).

 

[zsdersw]

I will say, though, that if teaching is such a dream job, why aren't more of you teachers? Unless you've ever been a teacher or have close experience with them, you don't know what you're talking about.

I very much support the governor on this issue, however.

 

[Darwin333]

If this was part of a contract agreement that was negotiated previously then the Governor is out of line with his demands; and the state will probably will get sued for breach of contract.

Doesn't matter if they simply don't have the money and eventually they won't. The math never lies.

Its just like Social Security. Eventually people are either going to have to put more in or take less out or you can wait for the system to hit the wall and everyone gets really fucked really fast.

 

[waggy]

Let them refuse it. It will result in Layoffs, which in the long run, will be worse for the teachers all around. And let us watch and see how or if voters approve school budgets that call for increased taxes. In my view, it may be time to be rid of public schools and government run waste. Make them private with some town subsidy and the rest in tuition cost. People that need them will pay their fair share, as opposed to homeowners with no kids having to pay for your kids education. Taxes are out of sight and must be controlled.

thats the thing. they refuse it and cuts have to come somewhere. class's or sports will be cut. wich will lead to teachers being cut.

 

[ShawnD1]

thats the thing. they refuse it and cuts have to come somewhere. class's or sports will be cut. wich will lead to teachers being cut.

Haven't we been arguing this for years? The building might be falling apart and the books are 40 years old in some classes but hey let's build a gym instead. Sports never should have been a part of school in the first place.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Is there any one group who seems to complain more than teachers? EVERYONE has to take work home. I work in IT.. its routine to be working late, being paged at all hours of the morning, etc.

Honestly, I don't think teaching IS a very skilled job. As Red Dawn put it earlier I think its basically become a babysitting position.. if you can teach them to read during that process, then you are a step ahead.. But honestly, couldn't most CPA's step in and teach high school math.. Couldn't most engineers teach science courses? Couldn't any personal trainer handle the gym? Couldn't anyone reasonable well read teach literature?

I'm not saying its a GREAT job, but how many jobs really are? For as much as teachers seem to complain, they sure don't seem to quit in any regularity. Which tells me the 'benefits' outweigh the downsides..

I got my first official 'raise' in 3 years this year. It was 2%.. Now, fortunately my salary has gone up during that time because I've taken new jobs or been promoted.. But if I didn't push myself into new things and new opportunities, I would be completely stagnant salary wise. I don't get any sort of guaranteed increases. 0% doesn't cover the increase in my insurance costs (Which I guarantee you are more than what the teachers pay). There's a difference in attitude among non-government employees and government employees, a certain sense of entitlement that doesn't fit the real world.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Haven't we been arguing this for years? The building might be falling apart and the books are 40 years old in some classes but hey let's build a gym instead. Sports never should have been a part of school in the first place.

Hasn't that same line been used for years as well? Its usually the one that convinces stupid voters to knock down buildings which could be renovated for 1 million are be fine and build 20 million dollar new schools with modern everything which makes no difference in the test scores of the students at all.

Trust me no schools are using books that are 40 years old. Hell, once you get to college the teachers make you buy new books every year because 4 words have changed since the previous edition.

 

[zsdersw]

Is there any one group who seems to complain more than teachers? EVERYONE has to take work home. I work in IT.. its routine to be working late, being paged at all hours of the morning, etc.

I work in IT for a public school district.

Honestly, I don't think teaching IS a very skilled job. As Red Dawn put it earlier I think its basically become a babysitting position.. if you can teach them to read during that process, then you are a step ahead.. But honestly, couldn't most CPA's step in and teach high school math.. Couldn't most engineers teach science courses? Couldn't any personal trainer handle the gym? Couldn't anyone reasonable well read teach literature?

Knowing a lot about a certain subject does not make you a good teacher. Many highly smart and skilled people are very poor teachers because they don't connect with their students. They don't inspire their students to ask important questions or think critically.

 

[zsdersw]

Sports never should have been a part of school in the first place.

Sports are a vital part of child development and have a very valid place in the school environment.

Social development, self-respect, discipline, and the lessons of winning and losing are all important.. and all provided by sports.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

... it's funny to see the breakdown amongst my friends -- everyone who lives at home supports the teacher's unions and everyone who is getting assraped by property taxes supports the governor.

It's funny how that works.