NIMBYS now kneecapping UC system

[MrSquished]

It’s the primary reason people are leaving the west coast - they can’t afford to live there anymore.

And businesses will go with them.

 

[IronWing]

If there’s anyone I’m ‘carrying water’ for it’s the poor and middle class. The rich are the ones desperately fighting all development.

Nah, you're carrying water for the wealthy at the expense of everyone else.

 

[Moonbeam]

No special privileges for anyone, equality for all.

I agree. Either eliminate private ownership of land and property or fix property tax at a rate affordable to the poor. Then solve the water and energy shortage, problems with mental health, drugs, and eliminate cars.

 

[IronWing]

You get to force everyone else to live how you want them to

That's you, buddy. It's your whole position. You want to see cities remade in your image.

 

[fskimospy]

That's you, buddy. It's your whole position. You want to see cities remade in your image.

Nope! I want people to be free to make things whatever way they want without the government forcing them to only build a certain way.

Remember, your position is the one of forcing people, not mine.

 

[fskimospy]

Nah, you're carrying water for the wealthy at the expense of everyone else.

You do understand that building more houses would hurt the wealthy, not help them, right? This is why the rich are almost always super NIMBYs.

 

[pauldun170]

I'm an evil homeowner with a yard.

There are affordable houses for sale out here but all the people complaining about affordable housing seem to want to change the subject when the house is under 1500 SQ ft or if the affordable houses are on a block with brown people.

Block could filled with cops, lawyers, medical proffesionals accountants and professors but the second their college bound kid with plans of med school plays a game of basketball in front of the house the block is considered 'shady and ghetto'

As for changing laws to turn burbs into cities...water table says go fuck yourself.

 

[IronWing]

Nope! I want people to be free to make things whatever way they want without the government forcing them to only build a certain way.

Remember, your position is the one of forcing people, not mine.

Nope, you want to unbalance the playing field in favor of the ultra wealthy land speculators. Your "freedom" is the freedom to rape and pillage, laissez faire claptrap.

 

[Greenman]

I think from their perspective there’s no crisis to be solved. Think about it. You get to force everyone else to live how you want them to, your neighborhood stays just as you like it, and you get a huge financial windfall for your troubles. What’s not to like? Mass human suffering is bad and all but if you have the cops throw the homeless people out of your town you don’t have to worry about it.

So the solution to the problem is forcing poor people out through very high taxes so that only rich people can afford the homes, or forcing the construction of government subsidized housing into an area which will cause existing residents to leave and prices to drop, creating an area that no one wants to live in.

I'm all for high density housing for people that want it, but I don't, so my home is in a low density development. That's why I purchased it.

 

[IronWing]

I'm all for high density housing for people that want it, but I don't, so my home is in a low density development. That's why I purchased it.

What you want doesn't factor. You will live the way fskimospy desires you to live.

 

[fskimospy]

So the solution to the problem is forcing poor people out through very high taxes so that only rich people can afford the homes, or forcing the construction of government subsidized housing into an area which will cause existing residents to leave and prices to drop, creating an area that no one wants to live in.

I'm all for high density housing for people that want it, but I don't, so my home is in a low density development. That's why I purchased it.

Nope, neither of those things! All I’m advocating for is removing the housing bans in place.

 

[fskimospy]

What you want doesn't factor. You will live the way fskimospy desires you to live.

Again it is amusing to me that you don’t appear to understand that YOUR position is the one trying to force people to live how you want, not mine. Mine is for letting everyone live however they want!

 

[IronWing]

Again it is amusing to me that you don’t appear to understand that YOUR position is the one trying to force people to live how you want, not mine. Mine is for letting everyone live however they want!

No, it really isn't, at all. But you know that. On every other topic, you seem to understand power relationships between the wealthy and everyone else. In this one area, you turn into a Reaganite happyhead.

 

[fskimospy]

No, it really isn't, at all. But you know that. On every other topic, you seem to understand power relationships between the wealthy and everyone else. In this one area, you turn into a Reaganite happyhead.

The power relationship here is that wealthy incumbent landowners use the government to ban the creation of additional housing supply so that the poor and middle class are squeezed out while those same landowners profit enormously.

 

[MrSquished]

None of them can answer the question how they will help solve America's affordable housing crisis. That keeps so many millions of people down, and downtrodden. I'm starting to think they just don't care

 

[Moonbeam]

And businesses will go with them.

Good.

So if someone is allowed to build a two family home next to yours you equate that with taking one of your organs? That's....interesting?

Not what I said. I voted against prop 13. I oppose its elimination because it is all that keeps poorer older people from being forced to sell their homes and all dreams they have of staying where they long ago managed to barely afford but did so anyway to better their lives.

They just happened to buy before everybody else started in droves to want to have that they have. All they did was create a desirable low crime open space place that was great to raise their kids. Now others that can’t afford to live there say fuck them, or let’s live on top of them. Just a bit of projection and they start to look like greedy pigs.

Don’t we play the lottery so if we win we can give the winnings to the homeless? Let’s go after that pot of gold.

The whole capitalistic system is based on the wisdom of self interest and it is that same self interest that would drive somebody In need to consider forcing some to move so even much better off can replace them. You can’t build affordable housing where people want to live and if you do nobody will want to live there.

The answer in my opinion is managed development, making sure that economic development moves to create a desire to live in diverse places in diverse states instead of all the lemmings rushing to the sea.

 

[Greenman]

Nope, neither of those things! All I’m advocating for is removing the housing bans in place.

I'm not aware of any area around here that housing is banned. In most places it's extremely difficult, expensive, and time consuming to get a building permit, but that's a function of local government wanting complete control without any liability. Construction is also a cash cow for the city's, they charge absurd amounts of money for permits.
Right now I have a client that wants to replace a collapsing one car garage, the city want's $3800 and complete plans with a property survey before they'll tell him if he's allowed to replace his garage. Once they decide he can do it, then he gets to pay for the permit, with the full replacement cost added to the value of his home for figuring property taxes. His total replacement cost will be near $100k.

That's not NIMBYism, that's government gone completely out of control.

 

[fskimospy]

‘If you stop banning housing construction and let the free market work developers will make lots of homes nobody wants to live in’ is certainly a take, lol.

Of course if that were really the case then NIMBYs should be content to let the free market work as it wont build those homes. It’s precisely because they know people DO want them that they feel the need for housing bans.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm not aware of any area around here that housing is banned. In most places it's extremely difficult, expensive, and time consuming to get a building permit, but that's a function of local government wanting complete control without any liability. Construction is also a cash cow for the city's, they charge absurd amounts of money for permits.
Right now I have a client that wants to replace a collapsing one car garage, the city want's $3800 and complete plans with a property survey before they'll tell him if he's allowed to replace his garage. Once they decide he can do it, then he gets to pay for the permit, with the full replacement cost added to the value of his home for figuring property taxes. His total replacement cost will be near $100k.

That's not NIMBYism, that's government gone completely out of control.

So to be clear if someone wanted to build an apartment building next door to you that would be legal?

 

[Moonbeam]

Nope! I want people to be free to make things whatever way they want without the government forcing them to only build a certain way.

Remember, your position is the one of forcing people, not mine.

I want to burn rubber tires in my back yard. It’s your kind that stops me, folk who think everybody should have clean air. You saying others use force but you just want to do good is you holding the belief you know what the good is and it includes forcing old people to sell when they want to stay in the home they spent their lives making it that. So odd you don’t seem to understand people wanting to have their own home where they found it. I guess Putin feels the same way about Ukrainians. Move those fascists out.

 

[fskimospy]

None of them can answer the question how they will help solve America's affordable housing crisis. That keeps so many millions of people down, and downtrodden. I'm starting to think they just don't care

Their problem is they know what the answer is but don’t like it.

 

[fskimospy]

I want to burn rubber tires in my back yard. It’s your kind that stops me, folk who think everybody should have clean air.

So now your fellow humans are a harmful pollutant to be controlled and removed. Gross, but also not super surprising.

You saying others use force but you just want to do good is you holding the belief you know what the good is and it includes forcing old people to sell when they want to stay in the home they spent their lives making it that. So odd you don’t seem to understand people wanting to have their own home where they found it. I guess Putin feels the same way about Ukrainians. Move those fascists out.

You’re projecting again. My entire position is that everyone should be free to determine what is good for them. YOUR position, as you’ve freely admitted in the past, is that you know what is best for everyone and that it’s appropriate for you to force everyone to live the way you think is best because, and again, these are your own words, anyone who doesn’t want to live the way you do is insane.

So yeah, who is the fascist - the guy who says everyone should be able to live in any kind of house they want or the guy who says anyone who doesn’t live like him is insane and must be forced to conform by the government?

 

[IronWing]

Builders aren’t building affordable housing because there is more profit in building upscale. Stripping communities of zoning will do nothing to change that. What we will really get is an acceleration of the current trend of large investor owned housing as speculators buy up land in de-zoned communities.

 

[Moonbeam]

So to be clear if someone wanted to build an apartment building next door to you that would be legal?

Housing is a house or a unit like an apartment. Let’s be clear that when people say housing they may have houses in mind.

 

[fskimospy]

Builders aren’t building affordable housing because there is more profit in building upscale. Stripping communities of zoning will do nothing to change that. What we will really get is an acceleration of the current trend of large investor owned housing as speculators buy up land in de-zoned communities.

Right, developers build luxury housing generally and that’s fine. Poor and middle class people usually can’t afford to live in brand new houses similar to how they usually can’t afford brand new cars. Odd how people understand this basic fact when it comes to the car market but struggle to grasp the exact same dynamic for housing.

As for speculation in the housing market goes they are speculating PRECISELY BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THE PRICE OF HOUSING WILL CONTINUE TO RISE. Want to screw those rich speculators over? Build a shit load of houses so that prices drop.