You seem to be blowing up a little, too. Just relax. Email heat23. Heat23 fix everything and make it all better.
You are satisfied with the deal, and would trade with him again. He obviously wouldn't. Hence your positive, and his Neutral. He left valid heat for what he felt he should have.
You didn't give him a chance to remedy the issue BEFORE you posted the heat. That was your error, and the reason for his neutral heat.
However, he was wrong in pressuring you to change it. He should have just posted a response that you didn't contact him that you were dissatisfied - but then you really were happy with the trade.
So what is really the problem here, other than that you are pissed that he left you neutral heat?
I personally will be disappointed if heat23 removes the feedback.
My verdict, on the limited information: neutral deserved, simply for writing the things you did without contacting him first.
You didn't give him a chance to remedy the issue BEFORE you posted the heat. That was your error, and the reason for his neutral heat.
However, he was wrong in pressuring you to change it. He should have just posted a response that you didn't contact him that you were dissatisfied - but then you really were happy with the trade.
So what is really the problem here, other than that you are pissed that he left you neutral heat?
I personally will be disappointed if heat23 removes the feedback.
My verdict, on the limited information: neutral deserved, simply for writing the things you did without contacting him first.
Okay...first off that picture that you took is HORRIBLY out of focus and looks like utter crap so I can't really comment on the scratches...I guess there's something there but I can't really make out much of anything in that picture.
Here's the problems with this transaction.
First - your problems:
You left a positive, but from the comment in the positive sounds like it should have been neutral. Bad idea. Also...it doesn't sound like you gave him a chance to rectify the situation BEFORE you posted heat.
Sounds like he would have been willing to refund you rather than have a bad comment posted about him and doesn't sound like he was being a jerk about it or anything. You should always communicate with the seller if there are any problems PRIOR to posting heat to work anything out. If he said fine okay and gave you a refund then you either post positive or nothing at all.
Complaining about 2 days late? Did he promise a ship by date? 1-2 days after getting the money is not a bad shipping turnaround time. I mean sure I almost always ship the same or next day for my deals...but sometimes I end up being one day later....no biggie....life happens...work happens...we all gotta deal.
His Problems:
He didn't adequately identify the issues with the device IMHO.
He posted neutral feedback in response to a heat left for him - he should have PM'ed/emailed you about the heatware post and dealt with you/heatware personnel instead of posting a neutral to you. In all rights he should give you a positive because you paid on time and completed your end of the deal.
Again...you need to make sure that the deal is DONE before you both submit heatware. Both sides should be happy and satisfied with the deal - if there are any issues that are NOT dealt with properly and ignored....that is when neutral/negative heatware is justified.
/thread
Here's the problems with this transaction.
First - your problems:
You left a positive, but from the comment in the positive sounds like it should have been neutral. Bad idea. Also...it doesn't sound like you gave him a chance to rectify the situation BEFORE you posted heat.
Sounds like he would have been willing to refund you rather than have a bad comment posted about him and doesn't sound like he was being a jerk about it or anything. You should always communicate with the seller if there are any problems PRIOR to posting heat to work anything out. If he said fine okay and gave you a refund then you either post positive or nothing at all.
Complaining about 2 days late? Did he promise a ship by date? 1-2 days after getting the money is not a bad shipping turnaround time. I mean sure I almost always ship the same or next day for my deals...but sometimes I end up being one day later....no biggie....life happens...work happens...we all gotta deal.
His Problems:
He didn't adequately identify the issues with the device IMHO.
He posted neutral feedback in response to a heat left for him - he should have PM'ed/emailed you about the heatware post and dealt with you/heatware personnel instead of posting a neutral to you. In all rights he should give you a positive because you paid on time and completed your end of the deal.
Again...you need to make sure that the deal is DONE before you both submit heatware. Both sides should be happy and satisfied with the deal - if there are any issues that are NOT dealt with properly and ignored....that is when neutral/negative heatware is justified.
/thread
- Jun 8, 2005
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Did you read my post? I was happy with the deal. MY heatware evaulation just stated what happened during the transaction. I considered the deal done.
1) I paid first
2) He promised to ship it on a saturday
3) He shipped it on a Tuesday instead
4) I asked if there were scratches
5) He said no but I could see them
I however, downplayed those facts because they did not matter to me. BUT the comments might matter to someone else if there were 5-6 posts like this. It might make them decide that the guy's shipping dates are 1-2 days behind, and the potential trader/buyer might decide that they might not want to wait that long. I was HAPPY WITH THE DEAL, THAT IS WHY I LEFT POSITIVE. This guy however, decided to be an ass about my heat, even though it was the full truth, and nothing but the truth.
Yes I read your post. His bad if he promised shipping on Saturday.
However....you didn't even let him try to remedy the situation. If you were HAPPY then you should have just posted the positive and been done with it. You obviously are not as you complained in his eval about the shipping and scratches. If you were truly happy you wouldn't have said any of that.
I don't think the guy is being an ass. I would be pissed too if someone was unhappy with a deal I did with them and instead of making me aware of the fact - posted stuff in heatware instead.
I do think he went about it the wrong way in posting in heatware instead of taking it up with Heat23 or yourself first.
He sounded like he would have been reasonable (more than most) and given you a return or maybe he would have refunded your shipping since he was late...YOU DID NOT EVEN ASK that is the whole problem.
BTW jury is still out on the scratches for me..I'd have to see a clear picture...maybe he didn't notice them....some things some people notice more than others. Again...no PM to him about finding them and being upset (which you were...don't say you weren't as you posted crap about it) - no chance for him to offer you anything, apologize, anything.
- Jun 8, 2005
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# An important note about honesty and Heatware:
Many of you fail to leave an honest heatware eval. When a trader clearly deserves either a negative or a neutral then you should give a trader the rating they deserve. Not doing so is a disservice to other traders who may consider dealing with that particular person. And they may also get burned as you did or go through hassles as you did, all because YOU failed to use heatware the way it's meant to be used.
Why do many not give an honest eval?
# You are afraid of retaliation (false negative eval, etc.).
# You don't want hard feelings.
# You may think (or be convinced) this is a onetime thing and wish to give them another chance.
Let's go over them:
1) You are afraid of retaliation (false negative eval, etc.).
Not a problem. Bogus negative evals clearly made of pure spite will be removed. Any trader who leaves an obviously undeserved, bogus eval risks being permanently banned.
2) You don't want hard feelings.
So? What are they going to do, other than talk dirty to you?
3) You may think (or be convinced) this is a one time event and wish to give the trader another chance.
Ok, but the problem is, many people may have the same hesitation. How many others who may have dealt with that same individual have thought the same thing and gone through the same wringer because of such actions by the same bad trader? "But he's a nice guy" is not a reason not to leave a deserved bad eval.
Of course, there are other reasons one doesn't leave an honest eval. Fear of making an enemy, being sent a virus, threats, etc..
If that is the case (being sent a virus, threats, etc..) then let us and the Troll Hunters know. They will be stopped.
The vast majority of our traders are good, honest people. Please be fair to them, and leave an honest eval. Many times, some have failed to do so, and because they failed to leave a deserved bad eval, others were ripped off or went through major hassles. The protection of the evaluation system is only as good the information you contribute.
The deal was done. I paid, he sold. What is there to remedy? I do not give my heatware evaulation to another member in advance just so that member can cherrypick everything from the heatware evaluation and only leave the good things in. Heatware is not there for you to say A++++++ great trader/etc. It is there so people can base their new trades on past evaluations, and I thought that people might want to know what happened with me. The only times I have those A++++++ trades and deals is when there are no hiccups at all. This one obviously had a few MINOR HICCUPS that were NOT DEALBREAKERS, and I obvoiusly wanted people to know about these hiccups.
So why not give him the chance to remedy the situations. The situation being the one where you were not happy with the sale.
If you gave him the chance to remedy that situation...I'm sure by his responses that you would have gotten a refund. Then you can at least put in the eval "I wasn't happy with the item conditon, but the seller refunded me promptly without a hassle." That would be much better than what you did.
EDIT:
I also went and read your heatware that he left you...he left a good description of why he left the neutral and I can at least see his point.
He's right...you didn't contact him when there was a problem. You also got an ipod 1GB for almost 50% off of retail (apple store).....I do think your expectations on the item quality were a bit unreasonable being that this is an MP3 player - it gets toted around and put in pockets with keys and tossed on the desk, etc. Unless you are going to saran-wrap it and put it in the closet and not use it you will put some scratches into it yourself.
So, the seller is only allowed to grade you on whether you paid or not?
I beg to differ. You are obligated to work out any issues with the trade prior to leaving heat. By not doing that, you deserve the neutral right there.
But you left a positive, you say? So what? By your own rules, he left an evaluation that reflected his experience on the trade. Basically, would he trade with you again.
If he were really harsh, he could have left you a negative. If his view is he wouldn't trade with you again, that would warrant a negative.
You had no issue with the trade until his heatware feedback. You left feedback when your side of the deal was done. You got you stuff, you were happy with what you got, you left feedback. If you weren't happy, you needed to contact him.
Now, the seller isn't done with his deal until the buyer is totally happy, or he doesn't agree to what the buyer wants. The contents of your heatware eval becomes part of his deal (or his experience wth the trade). Note - the rating left does not become part of the deal - only the information presented in the eval.
I suspect this is falling on deaf ears, but think about it for a bit. Take some deep breaths and/or sleep on it. I know you are pissed about the neutral eval. Try to step back and think rationally about it.
- Jun 8, 2005
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His heatware eval of me:
-payment was prompt
-however HEAT left was misleading. buyer requested if it was scratched; to the naked eye it was not. However, the buyer found many "micro" scratches on the body when examined closely under a direct bright light. When i held the unit up in my kitched i could see nothing. I asked for a picture and he sent one; it is clear in order to see the "scratches" he had to blow up the image an excessive amount.
The Image is taken on a digital camera. It was not blown up at all. The light was not direct. It was from a ceiling lightbulb. When just exampining the unit outside on an afternoon, I could see scratches from 80% of the angles. I did not have any problems with the scratches, but I put it in my heatware evaluation because its a minor hiccup that I think people should be aware of.
-Buyer has complained at my delayed shipping; i received PayPal on a Friday and shipped Tuesday morning. In my mind a very good turnaround indeed.
Promised to ship on Saturday.Two days late, with no apology, or explanation.Not a dealbreaker, and certainly I didn't complain too much, but I wanted to let everyone know about this little hiccup. Nothing major at all, but if there are 5-6 trades with minor delay posts, then a potential buyer might avoid him because he might not want wait the extra 1 or 2 days. Again I am not calling this person constantly late, and I have not looked at his previous heat to see if there were any other minior delays besides mine, but I am just saying that if in the future, a few more people experience this and post about it, it might help a future buyer who's trying to get his item as fast as possible
-the user and i have exchanged emails to no satisfaction after i told him i would refund his money and he should withdraw his HEAT; he refused to withdraw his HEAT.
I said ok to the refund, but I would not withdraw the heat because that was My experience with this trader. If a troll trolls you but then refunds you, would you not keep the negative? I'm not calling this guy a troll, but I beleive my evaluation told what happened during this transaction, and just because he refunded me the money does not mean that what happened did not happen,
-I resent being called a liar and so have left this long decription...
I am leaving a Neutral review
because:
-buyer did not contact me when he thought there was a problem
No major problems. As I said, I was happy with the Unit, but just a little annoyed that there were scrathces when He said he stared at it for 30 secs but did not see any. NOT a DEALBREAKER. I previously did not have ANY PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER
-buyer complaints about the unit aren't reasonable; he wanted "perfectly brand new" not "used in great condition".
I did not want perfectly brand new. I was happy with the unit I received. The evaulation I posted was just a truthful account of what happened. He said he did not see any scratches when looking closely for 30 secs. I see scratches all over the body looking at it for the first 10 seconds. I was FINE WITH THIS, but just wanted everyone to know about this minor quirk, because it happened to me. Something like this is minor to me, but it might be MAJOR to someone else looking to trade with this person. If I seriously had a problem with the scratches, I would have asked for a refund and returned the Unit.
-payment was prompt
-however HEAT left was misleading. buyer requested if it was scratched; to the naked eye it was not. However, the buyer found many "micro" scratches on the body when examined closely under a direct bright light. When i held the unit up in my kitched i could see nothing. I asked for a picture and he sent one; it is clear in order to see the "scratches" he had to blow up the image an excessive amount.
The Image is taken on a digital camera. It was not blown up at all. The light was not direct. It was from a ceiling lightbulb. When just exampining the unit outside on an afternoon, I could see scratches from 80% of the angles. I did not have any problems with the scratches, but I put it in my heatware evaluation because its a minor hiccup that I think people should be aware of.
-Buyer has complained at my delayed shipping; i received PayPal on a Friday and shipped Tuesday morning. In my mind a very good turnaround indeed.
Promised to ship on Saturday.Two days late, with no apology, or explanation.Not a dealbreaker, and certainly I didn't complain too much, but I wanted to let everyone know about this little hiccup. Nothing major at all, but if there are 5-6 trades with minor delay posts, then a potential buyer might avoid him because he might not want wait the extra 1 or 2 days. Again I am not calling this person constantly late, and I have not looked at his previous heat to see if there were any other minior delays besides mine, but I am just saying that if in the future, a few more people experience this and post about it, it might help a future buyer who's trying to get his item as fast as possible
-the user and i have exchanged emails to no satisfaction after i told him i would refund his money and he should withdraw his HEAT; he refused to withdraw his HEAT.
I said ok to the refund, but I would not withdraw the heat because that was My experience with this trader. If a troll trolls you but then refunds you, would you not keep the negative? I'm not calling this guy a troll, but I beleive my evaluation told what happened during this transaction, and just because he refunded me the money does not mean that what happened did not happen,
-I resent being called a liar and so have left this long decription...
I am leaving a Neutral review
because:
-buyer did not contact me when he thought there was a problem
No major problems. As I said, I was happy with the Unit, but just a little annoyed that there were scrathces when He said he stared at it for 30 secs but did not see any. NOT a DEALBREAKER. I previously did not have ANY PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER
-buyer complaints about the unit aren't reasonable; he wanted "perfectly brand new" not "used in great condition".
I did not want perfectly brand new. I was happy with the unit I received. The evaulation I posted was just a truthful account of what happened. He said he did not see any scratches when looking closely for 30 secs. I see scratches all over the body looking at it for the first 10 seconds. I was FINE WITH THIS, but just wanted everyone to know about this minor quirk, because it happened to me. Something like this is minor to me, but it might be MAJOR to someone else looking to trade with this person. If I seriously had a problem with the scratches, I would have asked for a refund and returned the Unit.
- Jun 8, 2005
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This post was not started becuase he left me a neutral. This post was started when he sent me a PM complaining about my heatware evaluation. AS I STATED BEFORE, THE MINOR QUIRKS WERE NOT ISSUES TO ME, AND I WAS HAPPY WITH THE DEAL, BUT IT MIGHT MEAN SOMETHING TO SOMEONE ELSE, SO I INCLUDED IT IN MY HEATWARE EVALUATION.
So basically..he described the transaction with you so others would know about it. You described the transaction with him so others would know about it.
Quit your whining.
Oh and the light was not direct??? I'm a photographer. The light WAS direct....from the flash of your camera....or something. You can't tell me that isn't direct lighting on the face of that ipod shuffle....at least not without lying.
That's fine. And his dealings with you might mean something to someone else, so he included it in his heatware evaluations. Other people may not like to deal with someone who jumped the gun on leaving an evaluation, didn't inform the seller about not being happy with the purchase, didn't give the seller a chance to remedy that issue.
This post may have been started by the PM.
However, I didn't find this post until you posted a link to it in a thread saying to avoid him at all costs in the FSFT forum.
Do you understand that you should have contacted him prior to posting anything publicly about the trade that indicated anything negative at all?
Did you ask him why he was late sending? Did you ask him about the scratches when you saw them?
No, you did not.
Good night. I'm done. Either you get it, or you don't. Hopefully you will.
However, I didn't find this post until you posted a link to it in a thread saying to avoid him at all costs in the FSFT forum.
Do you understand that you should have contacted him prior to posting anything publicly about the trade that indicated anything negative at all?
Did you ask him why he was late sending? Did you ask him about the scratches when you saw them?
No, you did not.
Good night. I'm done. Either you get it, or you don't. Hopefully you will.
the porblem is really laying on the "scratches" part.
his interpretation is those are not scratches, but normal wearing. your interpretation is those are scratches.
I am going to side with the seller, those so called "scratches" are not visible and obvious. now, make a poll to see how many of us think those are scratches and those are normal wearing. make sure to include a nonflash pic of the shuffle to be fair. I believe it is non visible without the flash.
his interpretation is those are not scratches, but normal wearing. your interpretation is those are scratches.
I am going to side with the seller, those so called "scratches" are not visible and obvious. now, make a poll to see how many of us think those are scratches and those are normal wearing. make sure to include a nonflash pic of the shuffle to be fair. I believe it is non visible without the flash.
No...you would not get blown highlights like that unless the light source was very close to the subject as was your camera when you took the shot (camera was held very close and does not do macro focusing very well). To get a small circle of blown highlights like that it would have to be a flash or a close light source...not a celing light. Not saying there wasn't light from the celing light...but the flash is light too and was almost certainly the source of the direct lighting in this photograph.
No...I believe he posted based on the fact that you NEVER BROUGHT TO HIS ATTENTION that there was a problem - you posted a thread about him saying crap about him and the deal WITHOUT EVER contacting him first. Do not EVER do that.
Face it - BOTH of you could have done a little better, but you should just man up and deal with it. A thread saying not to deal with this person over this matter is not right..he did not troll you or offer you bad service at any time that I can tell.
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