NFL 2023 Season

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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,467
8,069
136
SF & KC are probably my 2 fav teams in the NFL at the moment, so I was going to be happy however it turned out.

I like KC slightly more, but picked SF to win. SF, IMO, looked like the better team all night. Not sure how they managed to lose. The main reason I like SF is because of Juaun Jennings - he played his college ball in Tennessee. He was a beast all night - in one way or another he was behind both of SF's 2 touchdowns. The announcers got one thing about him wrong, though... The last time TN beat Georgia, it wasn't because Jennings threw a Hail Mary into the endzone (as the announcers said). Rather, Jennings pulled down an impossible Hail Mary in the endzone. He proved himself last night - SF should hopefully give him more targets next season.
Jennings gradually emerged as one of the 9er's best receivers this year. He showed some signs end of last year. He's not usually mentioned as one of their big offensive weapons but really should be.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,467
8,069
136
I wish the Niners won, but Mahomes is just too good. That's all I can say. There were a few luck-of-the-draw moments, especially with that muffed punt, that changed the tide completely, but pretty much all SBs have something like that. I liked that there wasn't a lot of penalty flags either.
I had to wonder about the lack of penalties in the latter stages. Finally they called a defensive holding penalty on the Chiefs. I had to figure they were just letting a lot of stuff go, whatever the reason.

The 9ers (and I figure it was Shanahan) made a blunder opting to receive after winning the coin toss in OT. They were sure to get the ball, it would have been an enormous advantage knowing what they had to do. If down a touchdown, they would be in 4 down territory the whole way. If down 3 points, 4 down territory at least until in field goal range.
 

Saylick

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2012
3,114
6,260
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I had to wonder about the lack of penalties in the latter stages. Finally they called a defensive holding penalty on the Chiefs. I had to figure they were just letting a lot of stuff go, whatever the reason.

The 9ers (and I figure it was Shanahan) made a blunder opting to receive after winning the coin toss in OT. They were sure to get the ball, it would have been an enormous advantage knowing what they had to do. If down a touchdown, they would be in 4 down territory the whole way. If down 3 points, 4 down territory at least until in field goal range.
I think part of the calculus was that the Niners D was just gassed and needed a breather. Just look at Warner during the coin toss. They just got off the field so opting to take possession right off the bat gives the D that breather.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
10,959
2,091
126

NFL gets a nice viewership bump from Swifties of at least several million viewers.

Yeah, the Niners D was out of gas at the end of regulation. They needed a break, and as Barnwell points out, choosing to receive or defer is roughly a coin flip and not a decisive decision. Shanahan explained that if both teams scored in OT and the game was still tied, you then want to have possession. It's a bit weird that some Niners players said that the new OT rules weren't in the game plan, while the Chiefs players said it was regularly discussed. Nevertheless, as long as the coaches knew exactly what they wanted to do, I think all the breathless criticism of choosing to receive is Monday morning quarterbacking. (New rules and game planning or lack thereof aside, Mecole Hardman didn't even realize the game was over until Mahomes told him LOL.)

Shit is chaotic and I feel the Niners weren't ready for the play to be snapped just prior to OT1 ending. IMHO you can tell that Mahomes in his pre-snap read already knew he had the game winner in his pocket. Easiest read/play for him all day. (Recall that the Chiefs scored 2 TDs in last year's Super Bowl off of mirrored "Corn Dog" plays that looked laughingly easy.)
 
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Mar 11, 2004
23,050
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I wouldn't call that a muffed punt; the ball caromed off a blocker's ankle and force the returner to try to field the ball. Maybe he could have done better, but it wasn't his fault. It's notable that the Chiefs recovered 6 of 7 fumbles, which is just terrific luck. When Pacheco mishandled the pitch back, he picked up the football right before the defender tackled him for a big loss. Usually players are taught to just jump on a fumbled ball because it's very hard to scoop it up as opponents are crashing towards you.

I don't think Shanahan necessarily called a bad game (ESPN's Bill Barnwell didn't think so). CMC ended up with good stats but what I saw was a running game that was barely better than the Chiefs' bad one. It's far from obvious to me that if you pounded the rock, they would have won the game. The main difference between the first half and second half was the Niners 4-man rush was no longer dominating; so Steve Wilks started to blitz and Mahomes went 5/5 against the blitz. Also, nobody could have predicted designed run plays for Mahomes so there was no game plan for it. Despite all the post-game groaning, Shanahan also explained why they wanted the ball to start overtime.

Finally, an XP should never be blocked. Although we don't know how the game plays out if the Niners had a 4 point lead, Moody fucked up by kicking the ball low. I'm not going to sit here and blame him for the L, but we all know it was an important miss that Romo (or Nantz) mentioned immediately. It's hard as fuck to beat Mahomes, and you want to force him to go the whole field rather than half of it.

Agreed there's not much you can do in that situation but try to jump on the ball.

Eh, I think if the 49ers had committed to the run game they could have chewed more clock, which could have left the Chiefs like Brady/Billy did in 2018 AFC Championship game. Then they started becoming as predictable as the Chiefs offense which let the Chiefs turn multiple pass plays into negative plays and then they had to pass. If they'd just kept to running it, those 3rd and 10+ would've been like 3rd and 4. It was when they started throwing those dumbass passes out in the flat (which the Chiefs also did in the 1st half and they pretty much all got blown up), which then made them have to play catch up and pass even more.

Yeah the decision to start blitzing and then sticking with it when it was clearly worse than the defense they ran in the 1st half is baffling.

That was on the blocking, there were multiple Chiefs that were able to get their hands up, not like the kicker was gonna be able to kick a parabola. Chiefs special teams was an unheralded part of their success this year. I think Butker was near perfect all season, and the punter channeled a bit of Colquitt in the Super Bowl. Simply put, the Chiefs outplayed the 49ers in all facets. Both teams didn't play their best. It was nice that their best play happened to end the game though. First 3 quarters were pretty sloppy/unsound, but 4th and OT were better.

I do think Shanahan is catching too much blame for some aspects and not enough for others. Like their lack of discipline that showed up several times (be it fumbles, penalties, blocking, etc). The idiots griping about how Shanahan handled OT are idiots. Chiefs defense was already winded, and Chiefs offense was clicking, receiving made sense. The only thing people should be questioning is that he kicked the field goal instead of going for it to try to get the TD when already inside the Chief's 10. He should've gone for broke and should have bet the game on their ability to get 10 yards in 4 downs by running it down the Chiefs' throats after they got inside the red zone. Why people are like "it let the Chiefs go 4 down territory from the start" like the 49ers wouldn't have been in the same boat. They needed to score and should have guessed they needed a TD to win. If they didn't score the Chiefs were pinned back.
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,841
5,716
126
I don't think that's quite right, I think position coaches/coordinators can be important, and along with the talent question, it could lean both ways.. There are coaches well known for mentoring QB's, that's not a myth. And there is the flip side, players leaving teams and playing better elsewhere - in fact the Giants had two o-linemen leave under Bobby who played much better for their next team. Also see Evan Engram in Jacksonville as a TE who left and played much better.
Well I did say in general. Obviously it's dependent, but at the end of the day, if a team lacks talent, they aren't going to go anywhere. Just take a look at the Super Bowl winners in the past 20 years. They aren't winning because of a coach coaching mediocre talent. They are winning because they have the top talent in the game on the team.

Also when players move to other teams and do better, it also has to do with the surrounding players. Like Chase Young stood out more so in the Super Bowl than he did all year on the Commanders. Could it possibly be because he's going in with Bosa and he also requires a lot of attention? There is a lot more to it than just coaching.
 

thestrangebrew1

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2011
3,437
388
126
I thought the game was pretty good overall. I initially wondered why Kyle seemed to abandon the run in the 3rd quarter but KC's D stepped up. Aside from a few 6-8 yard clips in the first half, we just weren't that effective with CMC. With KC blitzing, you would've thought we'd call more screens to help Purdy out a little more. Losing Greenlaw on a fluke non-play was just terrible. In the end we just got outplayed and the D was gassed. You can't plan on a Mahomes scramble, although that designed Mahomes run was a great call. Nothing we can do now except retool and get ready for next year.
 

RPD

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
4,992
501
126
They weren't for me.

9ers Achilles heels:

Greenlaw's yesterday
Moody's foot (missing that extra point)
Young quarterback, he was good but couldn't be as perfect yesterday as Mahomes.

Andy Reid had a play up his sleeve to score a touchdown from the 10 yard line. Shanahan's play flopped and they kicked a FG instead.

I didn't watch a single ad. I was way to worked up for that. The 1/2 time show was pretty good, but over produced, a typical Super Bowl issue. The whole extravaganza syndrome.

Jim Nance outed himself as a nincompoop before the game started when he said the winner would be determined by which of Kelce or Kittle would have the better performance. :rolleyes: So dumbass! I didn't pay attention to him after that. Romo's comments seemed intelligent, informed and pretty spot on to me.

Who knows, maybe next year the 9ers will reach the summit.
Jesus fuck, a blocked kick isn't a MISS. Should the kicker also be blocking the defense then kicking the ball too? Solid logic.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
10,959
2,091
126
Agreed there's not much you can do in that situation but try to jump on the ball.
I think in the NFC champ game, a Lions special teams player jumped on a loose ball from a full sprint. I wish I could find the clip because it's the best example ever of securing a ball on the ground.

Eh, I think if the 49ers had committed to the run game they could have chewed more clock, which could have left the Chiefs like Brady/Billy did in 2018 AFC Championship game. Then they started becoming as predictable as the Chiefs offense which let the Chiefs turn multiple pass plays into negative plays and then they had to pass. If they'd just kept to running it, those 3rd and 10+ would've been like 3rd and 4. It was when they started throwing those dumbass passes out in the flat (which the Chiefs also did in the 1st half and they pretty much all got blown up), which then made them have to play catch up and pass even more.
For the record, CMC averaged 3.6 yards per carry. The run game just wasn't all that effective. (Imagine in a parallel universe, the Niners stop the final drive and win the SB. Who then wins MVP? CMC seems to have the best stats, but they're not spectacular. I think Jennings had the most impact on the game. Nobody?)

Yeah the decision to start blitzing and then sticking with it when it was clearly worse than the defense they ran in the 1st half is baffling.
I don't know what the stats are, but some QBs just excel against blitz while others turn into scrubs. Mahomes excels against almost everything, so this could just be "damned if you do, damned if you don't." I don't blame Wilks for sending the blitz, because the 4-man front that dominated the first 25 game minutes had tapered off. In the first half, Mahomes was awful (under intense pressure), and his INT might have been the worst pass of his career.

That was on the blocking, there were multiple Chiefs that were able to get their hands up, not like the kicker was gonna be able to kick a parabola. Chiefs special teams was an unheralded part of their success this year. I think Butker was near perfect all season, and the punter channeled a bit of Colquitt in the Super Bowl. Simply put, the Chiefs outplayed the 49ers in all facets. Both teams didn't play their best. It was nice that their best play happened to end the game though. First 3 quarters were pretty sloppy/unsound, but 4th and OT were better.
This is false, kickers absolutely control the trajectory of the ball. Extra points are usually kicked high, and are rarely blocked. Long FG attempts are kicked at an angle to optimize for distance, and are more frequently blocked. Look at Butker's record 57 yard FG; it was pretty low and the ball mechanics didn't look all that great off his foot. It was just brute force power that drove it over the crossbar. Don't get me wrong, it takes special timing by the defense to block the XP. But the kicker is very much also responsible for the angle of the ball.

I do think Shanahan is catching too much blame for some aspects and not enough for others. Like their lack of discipline that showed up several times (be it fumbles, penalties, blocking, etc). The idiots griping about how Shanahan handled OT are idiots. Chiefs defense was already winded, and Chiefs offense was clicking, receiving made sense. The only thing people should be questioning is that he kicked the field goal instead of going for it to try to get the TD when already inside the Chief's 10. He should've gone for broke and should have bet the game on their ability to get 10 yards in 4 downs by running it down the Chiefs' throats after they got inside the red zone. Why people are like "it let the Chiefs go 4 down territory from the start" like the 49ers wouldn't have been in the same boat. They needed to score and should have guessed they needed a TD to win. If they didn't score the Chiefs were pinned back.
The stats on going for it on 4th and 4 aren't great (IIRC it's about 46%ish). Although the Niners defense by this point was tired (naturally), they are considered a top 5 unit. I don't second guess kicking the FG and asking your D to go out and win the game. Notice it took some Mahomes magic to flip the script. After Pacheco couldn't convert on 3rd-and-1, Mahomes had to run to convert 4th down. WR MVS made one of the dumbest moves you'll ever see, turning a 4 yard completion into a 3 yard loss. And Mahomes had the big 19 yard scamper later in the drive that took any last wind out of the defense's sails.

I thought the game was pretty good overall. I initially wondered why Kyle seemed to abandon the run in the 3rd quarter but KC's D stepped up. Aside from a few 6-8 yard clips in the first half, we just weren't that effective with CMC. With KC blitzing, you would've thought we'd call more screens to help Purdy out a little more. Losing Greenlaw on a fluke non-play was just terrible. In the end we just got outplayed and the D was gassed. You can't plan on a Mahomes scramble, although that designed Mahomes run was a great call. Nothing we can do now except retool and get ready for next year.
Honest take on the game! CMC wasn't gaining chunk yardage on the ground, but Shanahan didn't abandon the run either. (To his discredit, Reid never abandoned the run even though it nearly cost the Chiefs the game.)
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,271
28,432
136
Jesus fuck, a blocked kick isn't a MISS. Should the kicker also be blocking the defense then kicking the ball too? Solid logic.
Calling it a miss is not out of line. He kicked it too low. It was a chip shot, no need to kick it that low. So in a sense, he missed where he should have kicked the ball.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,128
19,578
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Overall well-officiated game, the two big no-calls (grounding and ineligible man downfield on a TD) went San Fran's way. San Fran looked better a lot of the game but they got just outplayed in the end. Close game, but KC is just that much more clutch at the end.
 

RPD

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
4,992
501
126
Calling it a miss is not out of line. He kicked it too low. It was a chip shot, no need to kick it that low. So in a sense, he missed where he should have kicked the ball.
I'm confused. If the other team wasn't out there what happens to the kick? No one calls blocked kicks misses.
Lets start calling interceptions misses too.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,271
28,432
136
I'm confused. If the other team wasn't out there what happens to the kick? No one calls blocked kicks misses.
Lets start calling interceptions misses too.
But the other team is out there, and the kicker needs to kick it over the other team. If he shanked it and it wouldn't have gone anywhere near the uprights but bounced off the other team, was it blocked? No.
 

RPD

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
4,992
501
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But the other team is out there, and the kicker needs to kick it over the other team. If he shanked it and it wouldn't have gone anywhere near the uprights but bounced off the other team, was it blocked? No.
Brilliant, by your same logic interceptions are misses too, why even have a block stat or interception stat, just call them both misses.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
10,959
2,091
126
Hurray for pedantry.

But the other team is out there, and the kicker needs to kick it over the other team. If he shanked it and it wouldn't have gone anywhere near the uprights but bounced off the other team, was it blocked? No.
I suspect the official scorekeeper would rule that a block.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,271
28,432
136
Brilliant, by your same logic interceptions are misses too, why even have a block stat or interception stat, just call them both misses.
Call it whatever you want for all I care. I'm not interested in stats. Not sure why you want to start WWIII over this. I know it is officially a blocked kick but it isn't out of line to say it was not kicked well.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,467
8,069
136
Jesus fuck, a blocked kick isn't a MISS. Should the kicker also be blocking the defense then kicking the ball too? Solid logic.
Needed more elevation that kick. On a PAT, distance is no issue. Lack of adequate elevation is a big issue.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,543
29,148
146
Call it whatever you want for all I care. I'm not interested in stats. Not sure why you want to start WWIII over this. I know it is officially a blocked kick but it isn't out of line to say it was not kicked well.

Right. It's absolutely a blocked kick and should be scored that way. ...but the kicker is primarily responsible for creating that blocked kick on that play. Moody fucked up, and I'm sure he knows it.
 
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purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,841
5,716
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I'm about to blow your minds with this....

It is a block .... AND ALSO A MISS!!!!

Did he make the PAT? No, he did not! What is the opposite of make? MISS!

Was it blocked? YES!

OMG IT IS BOTH A MISS AND A BLOCK!!!

tumblr_m0wb2xz9Yh1r08e3p.jpg
 

thestrangebrew1

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2011
3,437
388
126
The kicker was a rookie so hopefully he'll learn from this year and be clutch moving forward. His miss in Cleveland gave us an L (not blaming him entirely for the loss, we played like doodoo) and he's had some head scratcher misses this season. Who knows what would've happened if the kick wasn't blocked, but it would've changed the trajectory of them game for sure.

IMO Purdy played about as well as he could have for being a first year starter. He missed at least one throw into the end-zone to I believe Deebo, but he did as expected, managed the game. Could he have done more? Probably, but KCs pass D is legit, and they did a great job containing Lamar so I wouldn't expect Brock to do much better. I'm good with rolling with Purdy moving forward. I just hope that if/when Deebo leaves, he plays better. Maybe he needs to establish a better relationship with Jennings. That guy balled out.

As far as officiating, I think they let them play through and the no calls were pretty even. People are pointing out the 9ers got away with illegal man downfield and if you look at the last scoring play in OT to win, it appears both the right guard and tackle went a yard passed the line blocking up front. Should it have been called,? Eh maybe. But if you look at the design of the play and Mahomes rolling to the right, it kind of looks like another designed option to run first if it was there or throw. Who knows. I'm on a few 49er groups and I purposely stayed off social media till yesterday because I figured I'd just see a bunch of members complaining about the refs or ready to pitchfork their DC. Can't cry over spilt milk, get over it and move on. Coming from a die hard 9er fan lol
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,467
8,069
136
Well, that didn't take long:


Maybe we can get Saleh back lol
I thought he might be out the door. That timeout that Shanahan called on the final KC drive because he thought the defense was too obvious (Romo's bold call), highlighted the fact that Wilkes wasn't really on it.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,619
2,647
136
1 point is the difference between a ring and a firing.
Moody might be having survivor's guilt at this rate.