NextGen Console Graphics And Effects on PC (E3 Coverage!)

[RussianSensation]

Your post does not agree with itself.

Huh? Where did I contract myself. I am discussing PCs and consoles on a hardware level / technical perspective and then comparing them based on usage patterns. You are the one that cannot differentiate the 2. I said consoles on a hardware level are now budget PCs. However, from a usage perspective, they can be both substitutes and complementary products to PC gaming. You view them as substitutes only.

You can have one or the other, not both.

I do not understand what you mean. As a means of entertainment, consoles and PCs offer the ability to play games. Therefore, they are gaming devices. In the former case, there are certain advantages the market embraces, In the latter case, there are certain advantages the market embraces. Both products can fulfill a gamer's desire for entertainment value, while also offering something unique. You seem to not understand that each has pros and cons because you think people would be better off if consoles ceased to exist.

You say Xbox One/PS4 and PC are the same, only when it suits the particular part of the argument where it would suit you.

Nope. You seem to not understand 2-3 different ideas being discussed: (1) comparing consoles to PCs on a hardware level (2) comparing consoles vs. PCs based on their usage patterns (3) comparing the cost of consoles in light of their usage patterns in the context of a family environment.

I provided reasons why the existence of consoles makes sense, why the consumers choose them and why they are not a monopoly. You failed to support your argument that consoles are hurting the industry more than they help.

You make no allowances to the fact that none of the "exclusive" things about consoles are actually hard-ware limited, especially not this generation.

Gamers do not care. They use the end product for its intended function. Someone sees Watch Dogs on a $1,500 PC and then sees the same game on a $400 PS4. If they do not think the marginal increase in graphics is worth it, they are getting PS4.

You use the hypothetical outcome with no change that would result from that hypothetical outcome, such as assuming that a PC that does what the XBox One or PS4 does is impossible (by some internal compartmentalization again)

- Living room social gaming works best on consoles
- Sports games work best on consoles
- Right now it costs substantially more to buy a PC and upgrade it over the course of 8 years than to buy a PS4 and keep it (albeit the PC makes up for it over time with cheaper software).

Until these things change, what I presented is fact, not a fallacy.

Truly amazing spinster. I bet people actually believe these logical fallacies of yours.

Apparently 255 million Xbox 360/PS3/Wii console gamers agree with me. You seem to think the main reason people buy consoles is because they fail at calculating TCO, while ignoring all the advantages consoles have.

You know why your argument against consoles falls apart above all? Some of the best games ever made in the last 35 years have been on consoles, not on the PC. If you choose to not buy consoles for your own reasons, its solely your choice and if you accept missing out on 35 years of amazing exclusives not available on PC, that's your loss. The rest of us game for the loving of gaming, not for the love of PCs. And now that consoles are much more powerful, we realize that PC gaming graphics will improve exponentially which is a great plus. At the same time we recognize that there will be amazing games on PS4/XB1 too.

 

[Imouto]

You know why your argument against consoles falls apart above all? Some of the best games ever made in the last 35 years have been on consoles, not on the PC. If you choose to not buy consoles for your own reasons, its solely your choice and if you accept missing out on 35 years of amazing exclusives not available on PC, that's your loss. The rest of us game for the loving of gaming, not for the love of PCs. And now that consoles are much more powerful, we realize that PC gaming graphics will improve exponentially which is a great plus. At the same time we recognize that there will be amazing games on PS4/XB1 too.

I bet The Last of Us is a neat PS3 seller. PC tards may argue it would look awesome on PC, fact is they can't play it. Same goes for Alan Wake released 2 years later for PC. There's a lot of console exclusives so artsy and awesome that PC tards won't ever have a chance to try that it's sad. Take Ōkami or Journey for example. Fun fact is none of these games need high end hardware to look beautiful.

 

[Vesku]

I bet The Last of Us is a neat PS3 seller. PC tards may argue it would look awesome on PC, fact is they can't play it. Same goes for Alan Wake released 2 years later for PC. There's a lot of console exclusives so artsy and awesome that PC tards won't ever have a chance to try that it's sad. Take Ōkami or Journey for example. Fun fact is none of these games need high end hardware to look beautiful.

"PC tards", uh what?

I'll point out that buying exclusivity is what you do when you can't compete on merit alone.

 

[Imouto]

"PC tards", uh what?

I'll point out that buying exclusivity is what you do when you can't compete on merit alone.

Exclusivity is just another business model. Blame capitalism for it, not merits.

 

[galego]

I know some of you are watching E3 live, and we just finally got a look at the pricing of the Xbox One. We've got a look at the graphics, which look amazing and detailed.

How do you guys think these new engines will look on PC?
Do you think the price of $500 was fair?
Do you think current generation Graphics Cards will handle these games with ease?

Just curious to hear the PC gamers thoughts on the hardware aspect after seeing some of the games.

Edit:
There is a lot live coverage. I'll link any live coverage you guys request so it doesn't look like I'm advertising for any one website in particular.

Ported games will look very similar both in the PC and in the consoles.

The $400-500 price is fair. A matching PC will be much more expensive.

"current generation Graphics Cards" is a too broad term. Probably ported games will require of something as a GTX-680 or maybe a GTX-780. Those are the graphics cards choose in PC-console comparisons and demos.

The key is in the exclusive titles. Being exclusive, developers can waste time and money on optimization for concrete hardware (PS4 or XboxOne) and then those games will be ahead of the current graphics cards, like several developers have claimed.

 

[cmdrdredd]

So remind me again why they are bothering to make a console?

That's easy...They can sell an ecosystem. They can get developers signed up for their ecosystem and when everything is proprietary and centrally controlled (no windows and open source) they can maximize profits. Keeping exclusive games coming, that you cannot buy elsewhere keeps their ecosystem growing with the platform. Plus everything tends to work better when you have a closed OS. No drivers, no variations in hardware etc.

 

[Arkaign]

"PC tards", uh what?

I'll point out that buying exclusivity is what you do when you can't compete on merit alone.

Calling people 'PC tards' is only making yourself look bad. Most people that game on PC also game on console, as Russian even notes. The reverse isn't really true. The fact is that there are some games which are just better on PC, and some games which are just better on console. Being a bigot about it either way is only forcing oneself to miss out.

 

[Erenhardt]

Most people that game on PC also game on console, as Russian even notes. The reverse isn't really true.

What? And how does that work? If someone have a PC and a console he is PC gamer that play games on console as well, but that doesn't make him a console gamer that plays games on PC?

PC + console = PC gamer playing console games
console + PC =/= console gamer playing PC games

 

[sxr7171]

Very simply consoles offer a high standard of gaming for a low cost due to economies of scale and subsidies. Consoles will never die because not many people want to spend $1500-2000 to top a console.

If you need better than the current console then you have the option of building a gaming PC.

Everyone wins.

 

[HeXen]

Some people can't stand there being any competition to their favorite platform. They just keep swinging away on those balls.

 

[aigomorla]

See you have no links to back up your statement. However I have a link that says otherwise.


http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...n-pcs-with-nvidia-cards-bodes-ill-for-launch/

From your link...

Dev hardware is the hardware that will be in the final retail box, but in a less consumer-oriented package.

After finding out next gen hardware are on par with 680 and 780GTX... because they use 680GTX and 780GTX...
I HIGHLY DOUBT ur getting a 680GTX or 780GTX in a small box which cost 500 dollars.

Also on top WTF are console makers even using Nvidia... WHY?
Most of these systems are on the AMD APU.... NOT intel with Nvidia GTX.



And my proof?
http://www.exophase.com/60285/knack-crash-reveals-new-ps4-details/

its just one of a few people who are ranting console makers this gen are nothing but bullshit.

 

[imaheadcase]

I have yet to see a console game that makes me want to jump and play on a console. Every single console game looks like cutscenes and a few days worth of play before I stop playing it. Even the multiplayer aspect of consoles is lacking, not a single multiplayer game is worth it for a console.

The last 10 years more awesome PC games game out then console games, so its a no brainer which platform is better. The PC.

Consoles lack so many things, that if a person has a decent PC no reason they would jump and buy a console.

Every year we here "so and so is going to do away with PC" and every year its not the case because of one simple thing, the PC lives up to standards, consoles are shovelware machines.

 

[Erenhardt]

From your link...

After finding out next gen hardware are on par with 680 and 780GTX... because they use 680GTX and 780GTX...
I HIGHLY DOUBT ur getting a 680GTX or 780GTX in a small box which cost 500 dollars.

Also on top WTF are console makers even using Nvidia... WHY?
Most of these systems are on the AMD APU.... NOT intel with Nvidia GTX.



And my proof?
http://www.exophase.com/60285/knack-crash-reveals-new-ps4-details/

its just one of a few people who are ranting console makers this gen are nothing but bullshit.

What?

 

[poohbear]

wow the PS4 is selling for $399, that was the price of my GTX 670 alone upon release!!! lol good for Sony, if they're making money and can sell the PS4 @ that price then i'll buy one to hold me over until 2014 when PC hardware will take a significant lead again.

 

[cmdrdredd]

From your link...

After finding out next gen hardware are on par with 680 and 780GTX... because they use 680GTX and 780GTX...
I HIGHLY DOUBT ur getting a 680GTX or 780GTX in a small box which cost 500 dollars.

Also on top WTF are console makers even using Nvidia... WHY?
Most of these systems are on the AMD APU.... NOT intel with Nvidia GTX.



And my proof?
http://www.exophase.com/60285/knack-crash-reveals-new-ps4-details/

its just one of a few people who are ranting console makers this gen are nothing but bullshit.

You're confused. The Xbox One demos were on PCs. NOT PS4. The shot you produced is a custom OS on a PS4 dev kit(not windows like xbone). The PS4 dev kits have the same CPU/GPU but more memory. It's all in the link.

It was Microsoft, and them alone who were using PCs for their demo kits, running windows 7, with Nvidia GPUs. They did have playable Xbone consoles, but some of the demos were not on this hardware, not even on a real dev kit...but a high end PC.

How can it be spelled out any more clearly? Microsoft is being shady and hiding things. They even had their own version of the KGB stopping one guy for taking pictures of a cabinet with a laptop that was running a demo.

 

[2is]

All this console talk made me fire up my PS3 for the first time in a couple years to actually play a game.... And there's a ton of updates to run through. I think the lines between console and PC are starting to blur. One of their advantages shed to be "plug and play" which it still is by in large, but proper to current gen, updates were a foreign concept to consoles. Next gen will likely have more frequent updates, local installs and of course, Very PC-like hardware.

I do have to hand it to Sony, they build up lots of good will as far as I'm concerned for the upcoming gen. Made due without the ridiculous DRM that MS implemented, the hardware is more powerful and the console is cheaper. I was going to wait it out before buying but at $399, ill pick one up wheeler I happen to see one in stock.

 

[Vesku]

"PC tards", uh what?

Calling people 'PC tards' is only making yourself look bad. Most people that game on PC also game on console, as Russian even notes. The reverse isn't really true. The fact is that there are some games which are just better on PC, and some games which are just better on console. Being a bigot about it either way is only forcing oneself to miss out.

Just want to point out I am quoting Imouto there.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I have yet to see a console game that makes me want to jump and play on a console. Every single console game looks like cutscenes and a few days worth of play before I stop playing it. Even the multiplayer aspect of consoles is lacking, not a single multiplayer game is worth it for a console.

The last 10 years more awesome PC games game out then console games, so its a no brainer which platform is better. The PC.

Consoles lack so many things, that if a person has a decent PC no reason they would jump and buy a console.

Every year we here "so and so is going to do away with PC" and every year its not the case because of one simple thing, the PC lives up to standards, consoles are shovelware machines.

There are reasons...it's called exclusive games. You know...the games you never ever get to play on your PC. Like Mario, Zelda, Uncharted, Halo, Last of Us, Ratchet & Clank, Destiny etc. That is why I own consoles. I play games on PC that are better on PC like Battlefield, Crysis, Watch Dogs, Skyrim etc

 

[AnandThenMan]

That's easy...They can sell an ecosystem. They can get developers signed up for their ecosystem and when everything is proprietary and centrally controlled (no windows and open source) they can maximize profits. Keeping exclusive games coming, that you cannot buy elsewhere keeps their ecosystem growing with the platform. Plus everything tends to work better when you have a closed OS. No drivers, no variations in hardware etc.

I asked the question because of this:

There's nothing stopping Microsoft or Sony from coming out with an AMD APU that happened to be exactly the same as the hardware they have right now and selling it as a PC.

Maybe I'm wrong, but the suggestion seems to be, well MS could sell the same AMD based hardware as a PC. This is true, but it certainly won't be at the $399 price point. The ecosystem subsidizes the hardware obviously like you're saying.

Some people can't stand there being any competition to their favorite platform. They just keep swinging away on those balls.

Nailed it.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I asked the question because of this:

Maybe I'm wrong, but the suggestion seems to be, well MS could sell the same AMD based hardware as a PC. This is true, but it certainly won't be at the $399 price point. The ecosystem subsidizes the hardware obviously like you're saying.

Nailed it.

They could, but it's running 3 OSes at the same time. They would have to support all 3 at once including a full Windows OS with all the drivers etc. and the two custom OSes that run other tasks.

They wouldn't because one of the reasons consoles do well is lack of drivers and the like. People can load a game and it works. Plus they can have more control over everything.

 

[galego]

What? And how does that work? If someone have a PC and a console he is PC gamer that play games on console as well, but that doesn't make him a console gamer that plays games on PC?

PC + console = PC gamer playing console games
console + PC =/= console gamer playing PC games

Yes I also noticed that, then moved to the next post.

 

[finbarqs]

microsoft eat hard rice!!

 

[Durvelle27]

There are reasons...it's called exclusive games. You know...the games you never ever get to play on your PC. Like Mario, Zelda, Uncharted, Halo, Last of Us, Ratchet & Clank, Destiny etc. That is why I own consoles. I play games on PC that are better on PC like Battlefield, Crysis, Watch Dogs, Skyrim etc

me aswell

Play BF3, Sleeping Dogs, Far Cry 3, Crysis 3, Metro on PC but have a console also as that's what all my friends have

 

[Blitzvogel]

Too bad for MS, because only Sony will be allowed to have my money next gen.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Play BF3, Sleeping Dogs, Far Cry 3, Crysis 3, Metro on PC but have a console also as that's what all my friends have

Same with me. I own a Wii U and 360 (and soon PS4), but if the game is also available on PC, I'm absolutely buying it on the PC. Consoles to me are for the console exclusives. There's no way I'm playing a game on a console at 30 frames per second, when I can do it on my PC at 1440p and 60+ frames per second (with higher resolution textures, AA/AF, possible mods, etc). When I was like 15 and could only afford a console, then I had no choice.