NextGen Console Graphics And Effects on PC (E3 Coverage!)

[finbarqs]

THE ONLY game i MAY want on the XBone is FM5. That looks pretty nice... I always liked it over GT series... It's always more fun. But i dunno, maybe GT6-7 will be the turning point?

 

[PrincessFrosty]

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/50277106856370176

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-metro-last-light

It is worth noting however that he's talking about making optimizations that require subverting the API and writing code direct to mettle, finding optimizations below the documented API that is provided with the console. These are essentially custom hacks.

Not all developers are going to have the talent to do this, Carmack achieved a lot with RAGE on the consoles because him and his team spent a long time tailoring the ID tech5 engine for the console hardware. A great many developers are going to be grabbing engines like Unreal Engine and simply building a game making a few (if any) modifications to the engine (if they even have licence to do that, a lot wont) and then releasing without any of these optimizations.

I'd tend to believe Carmack that you could squeeze 2x the efficiency out of a console over a PC but that requires specialist work, extra development time and a lot of working knowledge of the hardware you're dealing with. Typically this all comes late in the consoles life cycle where developers have learned how to best exploit the hardware and where competition for pushing the boundaries to out-do your competitors is a stronger influence.

 

[galego]

It is worth noting however that he's talking about making optimizations that require subverting the API and writing code direct to mettle, finding optimizations below the documented API that is provided with the console. These are essentially custom hacks.

Not all developers are going to have the talent to do this, Carmack achieved a lot with RAGE on the consoles because him and his team spent a long time tailoring the ID tech5 engine for the console hardware. A great many developers are going to be grabbing engines like Unreal Engine and simply building a game making a few (if any) modifications to the engine (if they even have licence to do that, a lot wont) and then releasing without any of these optimizations.

I'd tend to believe Carmack that you could squeeze 2x the efficiency out of a console over a PC but that requires specialist work, extra development time and a lot of working knowledge of the hardware you're dealing with. Typically this all comes late in the consoles life cycle where developers have learned how to best exploit the hardware and where competition for pushing the boundaries to out-do your competitors is a stronger influence.

I gave two links. One is from Carmack the other is an interview to Metro Last Night dev.

Both says "at least 2x". I.e. >2x. About 2x is due to API/OS overhead. Further improvement above the 2x is due to optimization of the game for a fixed hardware.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I gave two links. One is from Carmack the other is an interview to Metro Last Night dev.

Both says "at least 2x". I.e. >2x. About 2x is due to API/OS overhead. Further improvement above the 2x is due to optimization of the game for a fixed hardware.

Until the next round of GPUs on PC come out and make the optimizations for the console meaningless.


As for the idea that BF3 doesn't match the mgs5 footage from e3. I think mgs5 looked flat. The environment was flat, the horses looked poorly done with way too much reflection on the hair and speaking of hair, it looked terrible.

It looks good when taken as a whole but you dig down a bit into details and it looks poor compared to battlefield 3/4 and especially crysis 3. You wanna see impressive? Look at capcom's deep down trailer

 

[2is]

I gave two links. One is from Carmack the other is an interview to Metro Last Night dev.

Both says "at least 2x". I.e. >2x. About 2x is due to API/OS overhead. Further improvement above the 2x is due to optimization of the game for a fixed hardware.

The first link says "2x or so" not "at least 2x" looks like you're still in the habbit of misquoting.

 

[finbarqs]

I personally felt like I wasted 40 bucks on Crysis 3. It really doesn't look really impressive to me on max mode. Maybe the Art Direction isn't really my style. But watching the Forza 5 demo's has literally dropped my jaw to the floor. Wow. 60 fps with that much detail? Jeez!

I really like the art direction of MGS5 too. looks pretty awesome. I guess game developers really have more freedom with consoles. I think that's the major benefit. Sure, I'd rather play them on the PC with a proper mouse and keyboard.

Too bad I'm just really excited about Forza 5, which on Xbone

GT6 looks like it wouldn't quench my racing thirst...

 

[cmdrdredd]

I personally felt like I wasted 40 bucks on Crysis 3. It really doesn't look really impressive to me on max mode. Maybe the Art Direction isn't really my style. But watching the Forza 5 demo's has literally dropped my jaw to the floor. Wow. 60 fps with that much detail? Jeez!

I really like the art direction of MGS5 too. looks pretty awesome. I guess game developers really have more freedom with consoles. I think that's the major benefit. Sure, I'd rather play them on the PC with a proper mouse and keyboard.

Too bad I'm just really excited about Forza 5, which on Xbone

GT6 looks like it wouldn't quench my racing thirst...

60fps at 720p...call me highly unimpressed

 

[galego]

The first link says "2x or so" not "at least 2x" looks like you're still in the habbit of misquoting.

My mistake because it is the second link which says "at least 2x":

Oles Shishkovstov: No, you just cannot compare consoles to PC directly. Consoles could do at least 2x what a comparable PC can due to the fixed platform and low-level access to hardware.

 

[2is]

I guess game developers really have more freedom with consoles. I think that's the major benefit.

I'm not really sure what you're basing this on. You're comparing games that don't even exist on PC yet and comparing them to older games that were developed with the limitation of current gen consoles in mind.

 

[TestKing123]

Now that "next gen" consoles have been out for some time, is it fair to draw the conclusion that these consoles failed to live up to expectations compared to PC graphics?

It makes certain remarks, such as "Electronic Arts Chief Technology Officer Rajat Taneja says the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 will outgun even the most powerful PCs on the market today", seem criminally idiotic.

Warning issue for necromancy.
-- stahlhart

 

[Bman123]

If anyone believed that the xbone or ps4 would look better then PC is a fool. I own both systems and yes the games look good but not like they tried to make it seem at e3

 

[tential]

Now that "next gen" consoles have been out for some time, is it fair to draw the conclusion that these consoles failed to live up to expectations compared to PC graphics?

It makes certain remarks, such as "Electronic Arts Chief Technology Officer Rajat Taneja says the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 will outgun even the most powerful PCs on the market today", seem criminally idiotic.

I'm not sure I had played a PC game yet recently (with my new PC that is), when I made this thread. Seeing how the console's graphics turned out after owning a gaming PC for a couple of months (Recently built I mean), it was an EXTREME disappointment. One I had kid of expected obviously as I built a gaming PC.

I think the new consoles are successes for MS/Sony (Quicker profitable consoles), but in terms of raw power, these consoles are the dawn of a new age. An age where no longer are MS/Sony willing to take large day 1 losses.

I'm sure PS4/XboxOne play a large reason as to why graphics aren't moving forward faster. The one thing that is nice though is that hopefully developing titles with great graphics will be relatively easy (not looking at super forward looking hardware like the Cell processor on the PS3.) and that maybe there will be a return to having an actual good game to differentiate your product rather than just having great graphics. I think we'll see devs cap out the power of the XboxOne/PS4 much faster than previous console gens.

If anyone believed that the xbone or ps4 would look better then PC is a fool. I own both systems and yes the games look good but not like they tried to make it seem at e3

Well at E3 obviously they were using PCs to run a lot of the games so it's no surprise.

 

[cmdrdredd]

PC doesn't matter when you can't play a lot of the games. So stop with the stupid comparison. It is all BS.

After using the new consoles I am fine with them. There are some technical limitations but I don't care. The games cannot be found elsewhere.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Now that "next gen" consoles have been out for some time, is it fair to draw the conclusion that these consoles failed to live up to expectations compared to PC graphics?

It makes certain remarks, such as "Electronic Arts Chief Technology Officer Rajat Taneja says the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 will outgun even the most powerful PCs on the market today", seem criminally idiotic.

in maybe 2 or 3 years, ie once they have enough time to master the new hardware, then maybe the consoles will have some titles that could put the best of today's PC to shame.

The problem, as always, is that PCs will be that much more powerful, and there will undoubtedly be software to push that hardware

finesse can only do so much to challenge brute force

 

[zlatan]

I'm sure PS4/XboxOne play a large reason as to why graphics aren't moving forward faster.

Nope. The PC is the limiting factor in a next-gen multi-platform title. The hardwares are fast enough but the standard APIs are bad. In our engine we can draw 60k batch on booth consoles, but in D3D11.1 we stuck at 7k per frame. Because PC is a good market for us we actually limit the graphics for D3D.

On the other hand the Nitrous engine prove that it is possible to get better results on D3D than we think. Sadly we don't have time for rewrite our engine, but I'm impressed what Oxide did. I don't do actual test on thier engine, but it should be possible to draw 20-25k batch per frame.

 

[MentalIlness]

Thanks, I didn't want to go to sleep tonight anyways...

Ahahahahahahaha....I just cant quit laughing at this comment. :biggrin::biggrin:

 

[Mondozei]

Nope. The PC is the limiting factor in a next-gen multi-platform title.

Thanks for the laugh of the day!

in maybe 2 or 3 years, ie once they have enough time to master the new hardware, then maybe the consoles will have some titles that could put the best of today's PC to shame.

Nah, not even then. Remember that the new consoles are essentially PCs, a lot less time is needed to master the platform, i.e no "cell" arch or anything similar.

Also, the best of PCs today have a 295X2. A "next-gen" console will not only not best that; it won't even come close. Even a 780 Ti will never be beaten, certainly not as DX12 is all about low overhead.

But even on DX11, it is and will remain a bloodbath.

 

[stahlhart]

Closing necro thread.
-- stahlhart