Next up LMRP cap

[Patranus]

Seeing that makes me feel sad........really.

This better?

 

[nonlnear]

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BP has said that they will not seek protection under the cap.

LOL, sure.

BP has some very good reasons not to try to hide behind the cap. The cap is only for spills where there is no culpability. If BP believes they are at risk (or might be) they would be much better off preemptively making a deal for a much larger sum that protects them from liability due to negligence than crossing their fingers and hoping it blows over.

 

[CaptnKirk]

BP has some very good reasons not to try to hide behind the cap. The cap is only for spills where there is no culpability. If BP believes they are at risk (or might be) they would be much better off preemptively making a deal for a much larger sum that protects them from liability due to negligence than crossing their fingers and hoping it blows over.

Or they could still be trying to save an asset, lots of money to gain if they can close it off and still harvest.

 

[JSt0rm]

Baring this we'll have to wait until August when the relief well is finished - which will work. By then gulf and everything in it will be destroyed.
http://www.theoildrum.com/

Dont forget the relief well could miss its mark. The one in 79 took 7 trys to hit the well in 200ft of water.

 

[Jhhnn]

Seems to me that if a suitable fitting can be installed, the the flow doesn't need to be stopped, but rather brought to the surface through piping and loaded onto a series of tankers... until such time as a relief well can be completed...

Obviously, I'm no petrology engineer...

 

[Zebo]

Dont forget the relief well could miss its mark. The one in 79 took 7 trys to hit the well in 200ft of water.

Uh oh. And they're only drilling 2 and the second only because Obama insisted. Lets hope accuracy is a little better than 1979.

 

[Mark R]

Excuse my ignorance, but isn't the portion of the riser above the BOP just a straight pipe? With 10,000 psi (give or take) pushing upward, the only way the riser can successfully be sealed is if the downward force exerted by the seal's clamp around the circumference of the riser is greater than the upward force exerted by the oil.

If the above analysis is correct - and given the 21-inch diameter of the riser - the clamp (basically held on by friction) would need to exert a downward force of approximately 3.5 MILLION pounds. I'm very, very skeptical that this will work.

The pressure is estimated to be 10,000 PSI becuase the flow is constrained by small leaks - which the oil is hosing out of. The LMRP will be a large pipe - so should have low resistance to flow.

There is also the issue of buoyancy. A 5000 ft column of oil/gas is much lighter than water - so the pressure from the head of oil in the riser will be much less than the ambient pressure - nearly 500 psi less. In effect, once the oil starts flowing up the riser, the cap may suck down tight onto the top of the BOP. The riser pipe is sufficiently wide, that it won't exert a significant dynamic resistance to flow - or experience significant frictional drag from the upward flowing oil.

 

[Zebo]

Shira clamp is not held by friction. they drill and put pins through pipe before closing valve.

 

[Zorkorist]

sEEMS TO ME, THAT IF THEY COULD DO THIS, THEY WOULD HAVE DONE IT FIRST.

-JOHN (PESSIMISTIC)

 

[Jaskalas]

sEEMS TO ME, THAT IF THEY COULD DO THIS, THEY WOULD HAVE DONE IT FIRST.

They tried to cap it a few weeks ago. This is a second attempt at it using what they learned last time.

 

[Zorkorist]

Each attempt gets more desperate.

Can their robots do scew holes?

Because all their physics gave failed.

Brute force is is order.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

BTW, I am sure it has been discussed, but what about submersing a bomb, as deep as you can... setting it off... and hoping the layer of land stops the oil?

-John

 

[Zebo]

can't do that John, oil is like under 70,000 psi. take you water hose and multiply it by 1000 and try to stop it. Bury it under ground, water keep flowing, covering with concrete water finds another path. If you detonate a bomb that leaves 1000's of places it can find to flow in cracks and cervices. Entropy brudda. <google it>

 

[Zorkorist]

Waterhose is pretty tough to beat.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

How about changing states?

Can we freeze oil?

-John

 

[nonlnear]

Or they could still be trying to save an asset, lots of money to gain if they can close it off and still harvest.

I'm not sure if it was clear, but I was talking about the liability cap, not the LMRP cap. But still you can't blame them for being practical about the bottom line as long as it doesn't slow down the recovery operation.

 

[RedCOMET]

Originally Posted by JSt0rm01
Dont forget the relief well could miss its mark. The one in 79 took 7 trys to hit the well in 200ft of water.

Uh oh. And they're only drilling 2 and the second only because Obama insisted. Lets hope accuracy is a little better than 1979.

Yeah, my friend who is on the DD3 was telling me that they have about 10in target. So more than likely he said the strategy will be to drill, drill, drill.... then run some wire line logs to assess where they are to determine where they need to be. But with today's rotary steerable / direction drilling technology, they should have better luck than the with the '79 well. and with the public eye on the rigs doing the wells, i'm sure they are going to take every precaution to hit the target on the first time around.

 

[MotF Bane]

How about changing states?

Can we freeze oil?

-John

We can, but it isn't anywhere near practical.

 

[Zorkorist]

At a mile deep, the oceanic pressures should be intense,

How about we deploy a fabric, that is extremely large, and that covers the hole in iy's center.

Shouldn't the weight of the ocean be able to stop this spill?

-John

 

[MotF Bane]

At a mile deep, the oceanic pressures should be intense,

How about we deploy a fabric, that is extremely large, and that covers the hole in iy's center.

Shouldn't the weight of the ocean be able to stop this spill?

-John

........................

 

[nonlnear]

At a mile deep, the oceanic pressures should be intense,

How about we deploy a fabric, that is extremely large, and that covers the hole in iy's center.

Shouldn't the weight of the ocean be able to stop this spill?

-John

The relevant concept is pressure, not weight. The oceanic pressure is intense, but the oil pressure is much greater.

 

[Jhhnn]

At a mile deep, the oceanic pressures should be intense,

How about we deploy a fabric, that is extremely large, and that covers the hole in iy's center.

Shouldn't the weight of the ocean be able to stop this spill?

-John

Unfortunately not. Liquids flow from higher pressure to lower. The drilling created a channel for that to happen, for oil to flow from a high pressure area under the ocean and under very thick sediments to an area of lower pressure above the sediments, at the sea floor. Oil then rises to the surface because it's lighter than water.

Capische?

 

[theeedude]

Excuse my ignorance, but isn't the portion of the riser above the BOP just a straight pipe? With 10,000 psi (give or take) pushing upward, the only way the riser can successfully be sealed is if the downward force exerted by the seal's clamp around the circumference of the riser is greater than the upward force exerted by the oil.

If the above analysis is correct - and given the 21-inch diameter of the riser - the clamp (basically held on by friction) would need to exert a downward force of approximately 3.5 MILLION pounds. I'm very, very skeptical that this will work.

Edit: On second thought, I suppose they could drill holes through the wall of the riser, and hold the clamp on with bolts through the holes. But with oil gushing out of the riser, the turbulence inside the riser would be intense. Controlling robotic arms in that turbulence in order to place nuts inside the riser to fasten the bolts would be astoundingly difficult.

It looks like it flares out at the top, so the clamp would be able to get actual leverage on that instead of only friction.

 

[theeedude]

I still think that's the stupidest law ever. How can you cap economic damages.

Privatizing gains and socializing losses is the essence of American capitalism? Why do you hate America and Capitalism so much?

 

[MotF Bane]

Privatizing gains and socializing losses is the essence of American capitalism? Why do you hate America and Capitalism so much?

Indeed, something your precious Obama supports.